Taliban dropped India from its thank you list. Delhi should face new Afghanistan realities

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Are people still living in the 1990s? Just because the Taliban returns to power doesn't mean India will have zero influence in Afghanistan. Its influence may have diminished but not eliminated. Afghanistan is still an unruly country controlled by warlords.



And what did Pakistan win? Afghanistan? It's one hell of a prize, I must say.

Sure sure. Which is why india wants to have influence in Afghanistan......................but then again you and your ilk also believe that the iaf killed exactly 350 terrorists in Balakot and shot down an F-16..................you do realise that the Afghan Taliban are orthodox Muslims who are racially, genetically, culturally and historically the same as Pakistani people? You do realize that they hate indian hindus and sikhs even more than Pakistanis do.

 

[Chakar The Great]

Are people still living in the 1990s? Just because the Taliban returns to power doesn't mean India will have zero influence in Afghanistan. Its influence may have diminished but not eliminated. Afghanistan is still an unruly country controlled by warlords.



And what did Pakistan win? Afghanistan? It's one hell of a prize, I must say.

Yes Afghanistan. The same region where you spend billions, where your own people die of hunger, thousands of farmers have committed suicide due to poverty. Killing on this basis of religion is norm in Indian capital, also known otherwise as the rape capital of the world.

The same Afghanistan where you were running proxies against Pakistan and sending vegetables via air.

Now that youd head hangs in shame because of yet another humiliating exit, you dont know what to do.

 

[Thamizh Puli]

if anyone wants to understand what and why tilting at wind mills means what it does, just read some of the schpeel here. Ah, India wanted this they lost. Ah USA wanted that they lots; Ah Russia wanted that, Isreal wanted that bla bla bla. Insane people building their own hot air castles in their beautiful imaginations. Somehow Taliban beat the whole world out of whatever it is the whole world wanted.

Reality: Trump is done with y'all.

 

[cloud4000]

Yes Afghanistan. The same region where you spend billions, where your own people die of hunger, thousands of farmers have committed suicide due to poverty. Killing on this basis of religion is norm in Indian capital, also known otherwise as the rape capital of the world.

A Pakistani lecturing India on poverty and economics. Is this the same Pakistan that spent little or nothing on human development? No water policy to speak of. Economy in doldrums? Perhaps Pakistan can use its massive military and nuclear weapons to fix its economy?

India can afford to spend billions in Afghanistan or elsewhere, so don't worry about that.

The same Afghanistan where you were running proxies against Pakistan and sending vegetables via air.

This is the same Afghanistan Pakistan has been using for decades against India by sending "freedom fighters" into Kashmir and Khalistan. So when the opportunity came to turn the tables, India took it.

Now that youd head hangs in shame because of yet another humiliating exit, you dont know what to do.

What humiliating exit? I didn't see streams of Indians leaving Afghanistan. The war was fought in the shadows and will continue to be fought in the shadows. And if you think Pakistan has won because you think Taliban are their "friends" in Kabul, think again. The Taliban are no one friends.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Yes Afghanistan. The same region where you spend billions, where your own people die of hunger, thousands of farmers have committed suicide due to poverty. Killing on this basis of religion is norm in Indian capital, also known otherwise as the rape capital of the world.

The same Afghanistan where you were running proxies against Pakistan and sending vegetables via air.

Now that youd head hangs in shame because of yet another humiliating exit, you dont know what to do.

india spent billions in Afghanistan, yet the Orthodox Muslim fundamentalist Taliban still prevailed and the americans are leaving.................

A Pakistani lecturing India on poverty and economics. Is this the same Pakistan that spent little or nothing on human development? No water policy to speak of. Economy in doldrums? Perhaps Pakistan can use its massive military and nuclear weapons to fix its economy?

India can afford to spend billions in Afghanistan or elsewhere, so don't worry about that.



This is the same Afghanistan Pakistan has been using for decades against India by sending "freedom fighters" into Kashmir and Khalistan. So when the opportunity came to turn the tables, India took it.



What humiliating exit? I didn't see streams of Indians leaving Afghanistan. The war was fought in the shadows and will continue to be fought in the shadows. And if you think Pakistan has won because you think Taliban are their "friends" in Kabul, think again. The Taliban are no one friends.

The Taliban are Orthodox Muslims who are racially, genetically, culturally and historically identical to Pakistanis. They hate indian hindus and sikhs more than Pakistanis do. Of course they are not the friends of indians.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

To me it progressively looks like a US-Pak “reset” deal with a provision to “glad to meet each other”....

 

[Chakar The Great]

India can afford to spend billions in Afghanistan or elsewhere, so don't worry about that.

Why would I worry?? Its your people who are dying of hunger. Over 80,000 indian farmers have committed suicide because they cant afford food. A big proportion of population lives under absolute poverty and you think I ll be worried??? If you guys are burning each others home in Delhi riots, you think i ll worried? Who gives shit to a third world country like India where gau mutar parties are a norm.

So when the opportunity came to turn the tables, India took it.

Lol good that you admitted that India tried to make use of the opportunity but pity that had to abandon Afghanistan empty handed. Its a shameful exit. But than again Indians are shameless. Not surprised.

 

[blain2]

Afghanistan has been the graveyard of empires for centuries and of two super powers in the last 40 years — the USSR, from 24 December 1979 to 15 February 1989; and the US, from 7 October 2001 to 29 February 2020.

India, despite being the second-biggest donor of foreign aid to Afghanistan and receiving adequate notice, merely watched the negotiations and signing of the US-Taliban peace deal from the sidelines and made no change in its approach towards the Taliban. No wonder, India was excluded from Taliban chief negotiator Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar’s “thank you” list, which included Pakistan (special mention), China, Iran and Russia.

The ‘defeat’ of the US in Afghanistan, on the other hand, is the finest hour of Pakistan’s statecraft. Never in history a nation has plotted and actively abetted the ‘defeat’ of a super power and yet continued to enjoy its goodwill.

India with its economic clout and soft power can still be a major player in Afghanistan. But for that to happen, India will have to come to terms with the new reality and engage with the Taliban. Realpolitik is not about absolutism, but involves adaptation to promote national interests.

Afghan-born US envoy Zalmay Khalilzad and Mullah Baradar signed The Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan on 29 February, 2020, at Sheraton Hotel in Doha. The negotiations followed a chequered course which was less to do with “hard bargaining” by the US and more due to the Taliban displaying its clout with terrorist attacks against US troops, Afghan Armed Forces and civilians.

Shorn of diplomatic finesse, the “peace agreement” is nothing more than a face-saving exit for the US from its longest war. Afghanistan has been left to its fate like Vietnam was 47 years ago.

Also read: Afghanistan is not Vietnam. US should know that walking away won’t be that easy

The agreement
The four-page agreement has been signed between the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, which is not recognised as a state by the US, and the United States of America. The Afghan government is not a party to the agreement. In fact, it is not even recognised by the Taliban. The future of Afghanistan will be decided by the intra-Afghan negotiations between the Taliban and “Afghan sides” beginning 10 March 2020. A separate Joint Declaration between the Afghan government and the US was issued in Kabul. This declaration contains the gist of the US-Taliban agreement and makes a commitment for a political settlement through intra-Afghan negotiations between the Taliban and an inclusive negotiating team of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (the government), and a permanent comprehensive ceasefire.

The Doha agreement broadly involves the withdrawal of US forces in a phased manner, removal of international sanctions on the Taliban, release of prisoners from both sides and Taliban’s commitment to reduce violence.

As part of the agreement, Taliban will not allow groups like Al-Qaeda to use Afghanistan to threaten the security of the US and its allies. But the agreement is silent on anti-India terrorist groups like Lashkar-e-Toiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed.

Also read: US-Afghan peace deal relies on old flaws, dated assumptions. Taliban of 2020 has changed

Future of Afghanistan
The fact that within 48 hours of the peace agreement and the joint declaration, President Ashraf Ghani said that the release of prisoners was not a promise the US could make and the Taliban resumed its operations against Afghan forces after just seven days of the pre-agreement “reduction in violence” promise, gives an indication of the complexities that will determine this future. On 4 March, the US carried out an

Post US exit, the Pashtun-dominated Taliban backed by Pakistan will be the most potent force and its return to power is ordained. The future of Afghanistan will be decided by the avatar in which it emerges to rule Afghanistan.

In the aftermath of the deal, two extreme possibilities can emerge in Afghanistan. The worst-case scenario is the Taliban going back to its pre-9/11 ways. The best-case scenario is a Taliban-led multi-ethnic coalition government on the Iranian political model with its moderation managed by leverage of international aid without which Afghanistan cannot survive and Pakistan’s influence. This will also be contingent on the leverage the international community can exercise over Pakistan.

Also read: India took the high moral ground by not talking to Taliban and lost influence in Afghanistan

The way forward for India
Realpolitik demand that India should prepare for both the best and the worst-case scenarios. Plan A should be based on the best-case scenario. Post 9/11, India has exercised considerable strategic influence and enjoys phenomenal goodwill among the people of Afghanistan. New Delhi has pumped in about $3 billion in developmental projects. A large number of Afghan military officers have also been trained in India.

New Delhi must shed its inhibitions to support the agreement, engage with the Taliban, and become part of the peace process to get the best for the people of Afghanistan.

As its principal sponsor, Pakistan has considerable influence over the Taliban. But India has what Pakistan does not have — the economic clout to assist Afghanistan. Economic aid never fails to produce influence. Our aid must not only continue but increase with firm commitments over the next 10 years. For India, $1 billion a year is a small price to pay for establishing its influence in Afghanistan.

We must also actively participate in India-China-Afghanistan trilateral economic projects as agreed upon at Wuhan in 2018. For this, we must prevail upon China to influence Pakistan to open trade and transit routes to Afghanistan. To this end, we must recommence our engagement with Pakistan with focus on economic cooperation and transit routes. This will also allay Pakistan’s fears of our influence in Afghanistan.

I foresee the deployment of a peacekeeping force under the UN or the Shanghai Cooperation Council. We must not miss the opportunity to be an active participant in Afghanistan.

Also read: India has invested too much in Afghanistan to let Taliban hold sway again with US blessings

To prepare for the worst-case scenario, we must engage with the non-Taliban ethnic coalition as and when it is formed and assist it economically and militarily through Tajikistan.

Lt Gen H S Panag PVSM, AVSM (R) served in the Indian Army for 40 years. He was GOC in C Northern Command and Central Command. Post retirement, he was Member of Armed Forces Tribunal. Views are personal.

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One should not let Indians claim such absurdities as highlighted in red above: The ‘defeat’ of the US in Afghanistan, on the other hand, is the finest hour of Pakistan’s statecraft. Never in history a nation has plotted and actively abetted the ‘defeat’ of a super power and yet continued to enjoy its goodwill.

This is nonsense. Pakistan always told the Americans what it was looking for. It did not hide, its intention was not to undermine the US (things happened along the way the same way Pakistan's interests were harmed and 70,000 Pakistanis died in a war that was not of our making). Pakistan supported the US and its interests even to the point of harming its own interests along the way. Clearly this is a case of TINSTAAFL. Pakistan paid through its nose and I hope now both the US and Pakistan can move on while maintaining amicable relations.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Taliban aren't the "Last Afgan" Doval the Devil has wanted to fight Pak with....

And, thanks to President Trump to relieve us, the US tax payers, from keeping on funding the NA thugs + Indian terrorist activities....

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

A Pakistani lecturing India on poverty and economics. Is this the same Pakistan that spent little or nothing on human development? No water policy to speak of. Economy in doldrums? Perhaps Pakistan can use its massive military and nuclear weapons to fix its economy?




India can afford to spend billions in Afghanistan or elsewhere, so don't worry about that.

And yet with all the fukin billions, all that development, your country is below poor Pakistan in poverty, sanitation and so on? Perhaps its time you rethink your strategy to be a shupaaa powaaa 2012 eh?

This is the same Afghanistan Pakistan has been using for decades against India by sending "freedom fighters" into Kashmir and Khalistan. So when the opportunity came to turn the tables, India took it.

Musharaf dismantled the network in 2000, india has fenced LOC. And you are maoning bout Afghan fighters in IOK? When did that happen ?
Own your shyt boy! Its Kashmiri boys like Burhan picking up arms or the Pulwama boy not imaginery taliban.

As for your “opportunity”, well thats just nice and dandy
Why start from Kashmiri insurgency which you started by mass murdering and raping Kashmiris? Thats basically how you formed JKLF & the rest followed.. or how about not blowing up Sikhisms most sacred temple?

Or how about talkin bout LTTE, mukti bhaini, BLA.. selective amnesia ?

Whats funny is india bitchin bout being a victim despite being a “nasur” of south asia for the past 7 decades.

What humiliating exit? I didn't see streams of Indians leaving Afghanistan. The war was fought in the shadows and will continue to be fought in the shadows. And if you think Pakistan has won because you think Taliban are their "friends" in Kabul, think again. The Taliban are no one friends.

Leaving? When were the indians there? But yeah your terror dharmashalas in Afghanistan are fked.

All you can do is make a movie bout it or dupe your public with BS.

 

[PradoTLC]

there's nothing to win there. it was the Af-Pak punishment for role in 9/11

Punishment ?= for what?... you do know who were majority of the 9-11 terrorists?...


our role?..... really ..I thought it was hatched in Hamberg?

so basically you lied .. you didnt go there to nation build, help the world to get rid of terrorism?... Is there any thing the Quran that isnt true about you lot?

And what did Pakistan win? Afghanistan? It's one hell of a prize, I must say.

kicked india out...

made india lose billions...

denied it santury for it's support of terrorist BLA

long list.... but u get the idea

if anyone wants to understand what and why tilting at wind mills means what it does, just read some of the schpeel here. Ah, India wanted this they lost. Ah USA wanted that they lots; Ah Russia wanted that, Isreal wanted that bla bla bla. Insane people building their own hot air castles in their beautiful imaginations. Somehow Taliban beat the whole world out of whatever it is the whole world wanted.

Reality: Trump is done with y'all.

reality is after loss of treasury, men and material you could not even secure one city

funny isn't ?

Indians generally confuse "Karma" with "Kamasutra".

indians are confused people.

 

[Jungibaaz]

...and it looks as though this deal is going to fall through at the first hurdle, even before implementation. It’s good to see Ghani agreed to the prisoner swap.

Unless Ghani and the Americans get their act together, it’ll be lord of flies in Afghanistan. Taliban also need to organise their disorderly ranks in order to adhere to the deal properly.

At this point there’s still a high risk of an American disorderly exit, continued violence and not subdued, and then war instead of power sharing.

It seems Ghani and AA are incapable of talking to one another, what hope do they have talking to the Taliban too? Any Afghan on PDF who wants to shed some light on this internal power struggle?

 

[Baby Leone]

$1 billion a year is a small price to pay for establishing its influence in Afghanistan.

why indians are keen to influence Afghanistan with the money that can be used to uplift Indians in India who are in millions & living worst life than even sub sahara african countries.

 

[cloud4000]

Why would I worry?? Its your people who are dying of hunger. Over 80,000 indian farmers have committed suicide because they cant afford food. A big proportion of population lives under absolute poverty and you think I ll be worried??? If you guys are burning each others home in Delhi riots, you think i ll worried? Who gives shit to a third world country like India where gau mutar parties are a norm.

So obsessed with India's economy! Whatever it's shortcomings. it's doing much better than Pakistan's. Perhaps you should concentrate on that.

Lol good that you admitted that India tried to make use of the opportunity but pity that had to abandon Afghanistan empty handed. Its a shameful exit. But than again Indians are shameless. Not surprised.

Please show evidence that India has abandoned Afghanistan or left it empty-handed because the Taliban is back in power. Like I said before, this is not the 1990s. Don't expect India to stand idly and leave Afghanistan to Pakistan devices. Please look beyond your nose to know why and how.

Musharaf dismantled the network in 2000, india has fenced LOC. And you are maoning bout Afghan fighters in IOK? When did that happen ?
Own your shyt boy! Its Kashmiri boys like Burhan picking up arms or the Pulwama boy not imaginery taliban.

As for your “opportunity”, well thats just nice and dandy
Why start from Kashmiri insurgency which you started by mass murdering and raping Kashmiris? Thats basically how you formed JKLF & the rest followed.. or how about not blowing up Sikhisms most sacred temple?

Or how about talkin bout LTTE, mukti bhaini, BLA.. selective amnesia ?

Whats funny is india bitchin bout being a victim despite being a “nasur” of south asia for the past 7 decades.

First of all, why would anyone believe what Musharraf -- the architect of Kargil -- have to say about anything. His idea of dismantling a network is by simply changing the name. LeT has gone through how many names changes now?

The Kashmiri insurgency started in 1989 by Pakistan by Zia, who thought it would be a great idea to send in "freedom fighters" into Kashmir and do the same to India as it did to USSR in Afghanistan. All it did was turn Kashmir into a bloodbath. Before that, there was no "mass murder" or "raping."

For every Burhan, Pakistan is giving them support. Not just the usual diplomatic and political, but material support as well.

You can complain about India supporting terrorism or whatever, but no one believes you.

kicked india out...

made india lose billions...

denied it santury for it's support of terrorist BLA

long list.... but u get the idea

None of those things happened. And don't treat the Taliban like you own them. Given time they will cause problems for Pakistan. They are not keen on the Durrand line.

 

[Protest_again]

So obsessed with India's economy! Whatever it's shortcomings. it's doing much better than Pakistan's. Perhaps you should concentrate on that.



Please show evidence that India has abandoned Afghanistan or left it empty-handed because the Taliban is back in power. Like I said before, this is not the 1990s. Don't expect India to stand idly and leave Afghanistan to Pakistan devices. Please look beyond your nose to know why and how.



First of all, why would anyone believe what Musharraf -- the architect of Kargil -- have to say about anything. His idea of dismantling a network is by simply changing the name. LeT has gone through how many names changes now?

The Kashmiri insurgency started in 1989 by Pakistan by Zia, who thought it would be a great idea to send in "freedom fighters" into Kashmir and do the same to India as it did to USSR in Afghanistan. All it did was turn Kashmir into a bloodbath. Before that, there was no "mass murder" or "raping."

For every Burhan, Pakistan is giving them support. Not just the usual diplomatic and political, but material support as well.

You can complain about India supporting terrorism or whatever, but no one believes you.



None of those things happened. And don't treat the Taliban like you own them. Given time they will cause problems for Pakistan. They are not keen on the Durrand line.

Besides this just happened.

Malaysia aims to resolve palm oil spat with India within month's time

Its time Pakistanis learn about real politics. Its only matter of time Taliban turn against Pakistan and PDF would be cursing India-Taliban nexus.