Tajarba Kaar loot maar tola - 40% Tax on 100 Rupees Charge

[Dubious]

It should be taxed up to 80% so that the dumb/idiotic smart phone generation can actually do something in their lives.

and be cut off from the world bravo in making another Iraq, Iran or N.Korea

 

[Donatello]

Yes, they don't but who is responsible? those who evade tax or whose who let them evade in return of bribe? Niaz saheb, governments are very powerful and they have all means and ways to make things happen provided they are sincere. Today you appoint an honest an independent chairman FBR and allow him to work independently and then see who does not pay tax. In Zia's time, almost 16% were paying tax, today hardly 8%. Why do we see such a drop in tax network? because until 1989, system was functioning somehow and then came thieves in the guise of democracy and here we are. Again, if the PM of the country, his entire cabinets, and 300 or so thieves sitting in the parliament don't pay tax, it would be plain absurd to expect ordinary people to pay tax especially when they get nothing in return of their taxes.

Your biggest tax leak occurs in the business community. All of these corner retail shops that sell you dry/green groceries earn shyt loads of income, yet none of them file taxes as a sole proprietor, why?

In the UK, even if you have a small kiosk set up on the road, and if you make the minimum income that is taxable, you have to pay tax on it. The thing is, the HMRC (UK revenue body) does not come looking for tax, they expect you to sign up, because if caught, the penalties will render you income-less in the future. Pakistan needs to do the same.

The problem is, if i am running a business, let say i import electronics from Thailand/China and sell them here in Karachi. Any income that i generate from that if it meets the minimum criteria, needs to be reported by me in tax. If i don't there is not way for the FBR to know what or how much i sold. The inventories/stock is always shown less, sales are shown less or maybe a fire or flood happened and you claim you lost your profits. This is fcuking bull shyt.

Toyota sold 50,000 new Corollas in one year.....where is the freaking money coming from to buy 1.5 million pkr to 2.0 million pkr cars? Clearly, the income tax class size cannot sustain such level of consumption.

If you look at everything over the past 10 years, consumerism has increased manifold....but consumers can only spend what they have....so yes, while the real net savings of the new middle class is less, people are spending more and more. So why is that the FBR revenues are not increasing? It's not the salaried class that can sustain so much demand. So the only option left for the government is to tax these products that are being consumed. A poor man does not give a shyt about 3G or 4G network. But i do. and i can afford it. Same thing with WHT on cars, bank transfers, property etc.

You will have to force the traders and businessmen to pay taxes or pay stiff penalties. You know, in the west the penalty for tax evasion is usually valued more than the tax that was evaded, to deter and teach a lesson. Plus, the major chunk of Agriculture produce. Fix these two, and you will quadruple your revenues within 5 years.

 

[syedali73]

Fix these two, and you will quadruple your revenues within 5 years.

Under this democracy it will never happen because the same tax evaders are political party's voters/supporters too.

 

[Donatello]

and be cut off from the world bravo in making another Iraq, Iran or N.Korea

Exactly. You will need to put a serious Tungsten-Titanium alloy danda up the back side of each Pakistan man and woman, to straighten them up.

 

[Faiez]

Under this democracy it will never happen because the same tax evaders are political party's voters/supporters too.

why do you want to increase gov. revenues ?

why can't they cut expenses ?

 

[Dubious]

Exactly. You will need to put a serious Tungsten-Titanium alloy danda up the back side of each Pakistan man and woman, to straighten them up.

O dear god!
You sound like those mullahs who were afraid of the fitna called the television some decade ago!

Things have both good and bad depends on how people use it...By blocking youtube alot of videos useful for students were inaccessible...By cutting off technology geeks and creativity will also suffer it is loss of the country more than any gain.....Sure chatting doesnt help but it helps broaden one's knowledge and understanding ....

Sure youtube doesnt help but many have exchanged cultures and raised awareness through that as well as thought people software tutors and other stuff for free...But of course progressing will kill the nation and the elite will die hungry so lets cut off everything and ONLY the super rich who can afford 60 Rs of balance for paying 100 Rs are allowed this is selective discrimination against the less fortunate and is disgusting!

 

[assasiner]

PML N goon be like PTI ka dharna ki waja sa hua han

 

[niaz]

why do you want to increase gov. revenues ?

why can't they cut expenses ?

Indeed expenses can be cut. In fact to balance the books one need to do both simultaneously. However, nature of the human beings is such that whenever you talk of cutting expenses, it is either from poverty alleviation projects from development such as housing, roads building etc. or luxury imports. Luxury imports don’t matter as these would be smuggled and GOP would loses custom revenue.

Road building & other poverty alleviation programmes employ ‘Day labourers’; poorest of the poor; and these people would lose jobs. Defence cannot and will not cut. Try eliminating subsidy for PIA, Railways & Steel Mill, electricity & gas and you would have a riot on your hands.

Pakistan doesn’t spend a lot on Health, Education & other Welfare schemes where belt tightening could show results. As it is, most of the welfare expenditure is thru ‘Deficit Financing’. Hence just reducing the expenses would not do lot of good and is not a real option. Of course reducing foreign trips of the Ministers & expenses of the President & PM House and luxury cars for the Ministers would help.

What one can do is to clamp down on smuggling, theft of the excise duty and eliminate loop holes in collection of tax on income and on goods & services. Brute realty is that given the choice, many would rather be a ‘Preventive Officer’ at the Karachi Port than a doctor or an engineer.

 

[Faiez]

Indeed expenses can be cut. In fact to balance the books one need to do both simultaneously. However, nature of the human beings is such that whenever you talk of cutting expenses, it is either from poverty alleviation projects from development such as housing, roads building etc. or luxury imports. Luxury imports don’t matter as these would be smuggled and GOP would loses custom revenue.

Road building & other poverty alleviation programmes employ ‘Day labourers’; poorest of the poor; and these people would lose jobs. Defence cannot and will not cut. Try eliminating subsidy for PIA, Railways & Steel Mill, electricity & gas and you would have a riot on your hands.

Pakistan doesn’t spend a lot on Health, Education & other Welfare schemes where belt tightening could show results. As it is, most of the welfare expenditure is thru ‘Deficit Financing’. Hence just reducing the expenses would not do lot of good and is not a real option. Of course reducing foreign trips of the Ministers & expenses of the President & PM House and luxury cars for the Ministers would help.

What one can do is to clamp down on smuggling, theft of the excise duty and eliminate loop holes in collection of tax on income and on goods & services. Brute realty is that given the choice, many would rather be a ‘Preventive Officer’ at the Karachi Port than a doctor or an engineer.

Sorry, I don't agree with most of what you said.....

People just assume Tax = Progress.

But stop for a moment and think about it. Is government better at investing or can you invest your own money more efficiently and there's your answer.......

 

[niaz]

Sorry, I don't agree with most of what you said.....

People just assume Tax = Progress.

But stop for a moment and think about it. Is government better at investing or can you invest your own money more efficiently and there's your answer.......

Honourable Faiez,

The very premise that one can invest his own money more efficiently that government is based on erroneous assumption that taxes are meant for investment by the government.

Let us go back to the basics as to why taxes are there anyway? To put it bluntly and taxes are in fact ‘Protection’ money to enable one to carry his daily chores in peace.

Theoretically taxes are supposed to be imposed by social consensus. That is, people agree to part with a percentage of their income to finance the running of the government. During the monarchy taxes were imposed by the royal decree. Nowadays taxation is thru elected representatives of the people. American war of independence started because the colonials claimed that since they had no representation in parliament, British government had no right to impose taxes.

Remember nothing is for nothing in this world. The very road you walk on, the water that is piped to you house etc. are all paid for by the taxes paid by the people. Tax money is not meant for investment; instead the elected government chooses how the tax revenue is spent. Problem in Pakistan is that people like enjoy benefits of the public services but do not want to pay for it. Every citizen has a right to question how the tax money is spent but is obliged by law to pay the taxes imposed by the government of the day. You would find that in the European countries when tax revenue is in surplus, rate of taxation is reduced and left over spent on paying back gov’t debt.

Comparison of the return on investment by the government and the individual would only come into play if the income exceeded expenditure to such an extent that surplus is available to invest. This is the case with some oil countries. Shah of Iran purchased 25% of the Krupp’s Steel in the 60’s and Kuwaitis have been investing in the oil sector all over Europe. But then OPEC countries don’t raise income thru taxation but by selling their petroleum reserves.

Pakistan’s budget has always been a ‘deficit’ budget that means tax revenue is less than expenditure and GOP is printing currency notes to pay for the shortfall. Pakistan’s development projects are there to improve lot of the common man thru provision of jobs, increased agricultural production and self-sufficiency in the industrial goods and other means of convenience

Naturally you are welcome to whatever you believe but in my humble opinion, your post indicates that you have misunderstood the very purpose of taxation.

 

[airmarshal]

For the 16 year olds - the same way they can afford cell phones worth thousands of rupees and pay for the service (through their affluent parents)

The poor cobbler and security guard can't even meet their basic needs in the salary they get let alone pay for the cell phone, the tax is basically for the people who make good money and spend on lavish items and services without ever paying tax, You gave example of cobbler and security guard but failed to mention Doctors, Lawyers, businessmen, importer/exporters, shop keepers, etc.. I know their would be some genuine low earning people who would get penalized because of many high income corrupt tax evaders.






In the civilized world, tax evasion is considered a crime and tax evaders are dealt like criminals and if caught go behind bars, give me one example of a person serving time because of tax evasion? The tax officials themselves teach people how to evade tax and not get caught for a "nominal" fee offcourse.

Which world are you living in? Everyone uses mobile phone including security guard and domestic help. With 40% tax, which is unjust in any case, the service becomes less affordable.

Tax charged on product at point of sale is only sales tax. That tax, everyone pays including a 16 old. This tax on phone cards is robbery. Its a way to plug the revenue shortfall.

These taxation are coming from govt known for money laundering, tax evasion and loan defaults. Its the inherent character of the rulers. Thats is why they cant broaden the direct tax base. As a result, they pick our pockets.

Withholding tax is always on property and high price tag products. Its taken from the people who can afford it. Now in a country where the rulers are land grabbers, withholding tax is simply waived as most of the politicians are thieves in nature and their properties are 'benaami'.

So then where to go get the extra cash to pay back IMF? You and me.

What Pakistan is going through is not reforms. Its a stop gap economic recovery where the country borrows money and then pays back that money at an exorbitant price. That price is paid by us as most of these politicians have money, business and properties abroad. So once their tenures are done, they leave for Dubai or London.

There is only one people that I know who like to be sodomized by their 'elected' leaders and then come around and defend this humiliation all the time. That people are Pakistanis. If you want to live a life of indignity and die a thousand times of disgrace, no one can help you!

So tax everyone because criminals have money right....

Okay, so if I setup a business today it booms, entirely on my own and then I plan on retiring in my 60s and want to buy a lot of land for steady income...that's wrong ?

And if some people have land that is acquired illegally, taxing everyone who owns any land at all to death is the right way to deal with it ?

getting your son married to a rich lady is now gunda gardi...?

You just assume if there's land, it must be owned by criminals....

Also, that part where I talked of being wealthier equating to having higher intelligence was in regards to progressive taxation....Bulk of today's wealthy people are all self made....So stop being jealous.

And if there is someone who's inherited money, how's that wrong ?

Nothing is wrong. Pay tax. Just like its all around the world. Yuo become successful and it pays. Then you have a responsibility to pay tax. Dont be Nooni.

Most of the criminals and thieves who are influential in power corridors have very prim location land. So that line of reasoning is quite valid.

As for N league. They have found newer way of corruption - Metro.

 

[Faiez]

As for N league. They have found newer way of corruption - Metro.

that's not a new way.....They've been making money from not-feasible infrastructure projects for a long time....