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TAI/AgustaWestland T-129 Vs HAL Light Combat Helicopter

Which is best TAI/AgustaWestland T-129 or HAL Light Combat Helicopter?

  • HAL Light Combat Helicopter

    Votes: 76 49.4%
  • TAI/AgustaWestland T-129

    Votes: 78 50.6%

  • Total voters
    154
I'm not an expert in Rotary wing platforms, but with the little basic knowledge I have let me validate your points..
1. The T-129 according to you will fare in terms of Power generated by the turbo shaft engines and I think the Turbomeca/Shakthi combo generates more KWs on a basic 1 to 1 comparison..1361 hps and 1334 hps..hence theoretically it power developed per KG of fuel burnt is more or less equal or the t-129 is slightly better.
2. The Maximum take off weight for T-129 could be few hundred KGs more than that of LCH since the empty weight for both the platforms are same..The calculations provided in the PIC are absurd, hence I had to do a thumb rule calculation for this..
3. The service ceiling or altitude for LCH is clearly ahead of the T-129 since the LCH is specifically designed for filling the High Altitude attack role and light weight ground support role it is superior in this aspect..
4. Hence to conclude, on ground support role in MSL, both the platforms perform more or less similar because few hundred Kgs more weight won't make much difference, may be it might help T-129 in carrying another POD or an Extra anti tank guided munition at the max..
Safety features and other aspects will be there in LCH as well as much as it is in T-129 since it is only three Prototypes and running and a lot more to come...
As a first endeavour for Indian aviation sector is a commendable job and the best platform they could get for this price tag in the world..
1 vs 1 comparison of this chopper is not required because both of these have more or less similar features and t this moment few hundred (KG-m) of more torque might put the T-129 ahead of LCH..But since it is evolving can't say any final verdict..
This is my little validation..

Wrong mate. 7 T-129As have been accepted by the Land Forces Aviation Command months ago. There are 3 prototypes in TAI, being the testbeds for T-129B variant under development which will have a Longbow equalivent radar thanks to ASELSAN. Safety features and other aspects are not same. T-129 goes with EW systems and NATO data links 16 and 11. Also ATAK has all of the NATO STANAG certificates for safety, comms and EW.
 
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I dont know how to translate the technologies on Turkish Atak helicopter to counter against rockets. But it has the detector that see the rocket targetted on helicoter and it see the rocket from the hit out of it(also the direction and distance...) so it autonomously decide the best counter against it. It also measures that if its radar directed rocket or Infrared or something else.
Or it has the camera that first time in the world it has HD quality thermal Camera which they showed in IDEF 2013. ill add all those links i said but i hope you can find someone who can translate them for you.

@cabatli_53 help me pls if you have any addition info.


Aselsan electronic counter measure systems called "HEWS" are all proven and used on many utility helicopters which is being operated by Turkish army helicopters. Aselsan is now modifying them to integrate T-129 Atak-B helicopters. There will be so much sensors on each part of Atak that The calculated weight of Atak without ECMS on Atak-A platform causes some balance issues at first. Think How seriously Turkish industry investing on those sensors, MWR, LWR, RWR, Central proseccing computers, Jammer sensors, CHAFF, FLARE, their chemicals...etc

Aselsan ECMS on USA Cobra
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Aselsan HEWS on BlackHawk
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Aselsan HEWS on Atak-B
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Aselsan is converting helicopters to a real fighter aircrafts and It costs a littile costly for costumers as well...

I'm interested to know about the HD Thermal imaging equipment, however it is not safe to say Turkey
has access to technologies that wouldn't be there on US/European product portfolios.

At present, Atak-A uses 300T which is classified as 2nd generation FLIR system and Aselsan developed 3th generation 235 CATS FLIR which is going to be integrated on ANKA UAV'S initially. 235 CATS provide better images, better detection capabilities on 1/2 lighter weight and It uses Aselsan produced 3rd generation QWIP Infrared detector that 5 World countries have capabiliy of mass produce mentioned critical detectos (Acc to Aselsan statics). In this aspect, Turkey doesn't ask USA to provide something for our FLIR systems...

An image of World rare 3rd generation IR detector production...

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Safety features and other aspects will be there in LCH as well as much as it is in T-129 since it is only three Prototypes and running and a lot more to come...

Atak-A in Atis Serbest exercise of Turkish Army.

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For detail action about Atak, Watch documentary...

 
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TAI/AgustaWestland T-129

The TAI T-129 (ATAK) is a Turkish attack helicopter project aimed at supplying the Turkish Army with a modern battlefield performer to complement its existing armored and mechanized forces. The aircraft is based on the successful Italian AgustaWestland AW129 "Mangusta" ("Mongoose") serving with the Italian Army. Despite the obvious ties to the Italian concern and its AW129 design, the T-129 program is largely an indigenous Turkish endeavor headed up by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) with AgustaWestland being retained as the prime contractor (AgustaWestland designates the T-129 as the "AW729"). Aselsan, developer of Turkish military communications and electronics systems, is also onboard as a participating project contributor. First flight of the T-129 was recorded on September 28th, 2009 with development and flight testing ongoing as of this writing (2012). It is expected that the helicopter will achieve operational service sometime in 2013 barring any unforeseen delays. The engines will be locally-produced under license as well. The end-product will also be offered up for export as TAI will hold the rights to the finalized T-129 design. Saudi Arabia is a possible future customer of the T-129 despite their stock of American Hughes AH-64 Apache attack systems already in place (the Apache holds origins dating back to the 1970s). Several other nations have indicated their interest in acquiring the TAI product and up to three prototypes have been completed to date (2012).

Unable to generate much foreign interest for its new attack helicopter requirement, Turkish authorities inked an arrangement with the Italian concern of AgustaWestland to produce an evolved form of its Agusta A129 "Mangusta International" variant that introduced several notable - and beneficial - changes. The original A129 first flew in September of 1983 and was entering frontline service with the Italian Army by the end of the decade. The design marked a milestone in European aviation as it became the first wholly-European attack helicopter to be completed and accepted for operational service. The type has since soldiered on through approximately 60 examples delivered and the helicopter has taken part in several UN-related peace-keeping missions including action in Afghanistan following the fall of the Taliban after 9-11. A few varied forms of the A129 eventually emerged and among these was the A129 "International". This variant introduced a new five-bladed main rotor assembly as well as the M197 Gatling-type cannon coupled to a chin turret. LHTEC T800 series engines were installed and avionics were modernized to compensate for the ever-changing nature of the battlefield. Support for the American Hellfire ATGM and Stinger SAM missile systems was also brought to fruition. In September of 2007, the deal between Turkey and Agusta was finalized to bring the army an evolved form of the Italian product to be developed and produced in Turkey utilizing various locally-designed systems and subsystems in accordance with Turkish Army needs. The program would fall under the local designation of "ATAK" for obvious reasons.
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Once in service, the T-129 is expected to be utilized in typical "attack helicopter" roles - anti-armor sorties, armed reconnaissance/patrol, seek-and-destroy and close-air support for accompanying ground forces. Due to the nature of its combat role (low-altitude with possible ground fire exposure), the T-129 will be armored at her critical areas, reveal a low radar signature and sport increased crew survivability through its inherently crash-worthy design. Mission turn-around times and logistical requirements will be designed with minimal effort to help keep crew and aircraft armed and flying during times of war even when operating far from forward bases.

Outwardly, the T-129 will showcase many of the sharp clean lines of the original AgustaWestland product. The major physical defining feature of the T-129 will be its five-bladed main rotor over that of the four-bladed type utilized in the AW129 Mangusta design. The pilots will sit in a stepped, tandem cockpit arrangement with the primary pilot in the rear cockpit and the Weapon Systems Officer (WSO) in the front cockpit (an arrangement common to many attack helicopters today). The fuselage, therefore, is allowed a very thin forward/rear profile with the engine nacelles straddling either side of the upper fuselage. At the extreme front-end of the fuselage is the chin turret that works in conjunction with the nose-mounted optics turret mounted just above and tied to the pilot's Helmet-Mounted Display systems (HMDS). The rear pilot benefits from the raised position while both pilots enjoy relatively unfettered views from the lightly-framed cockpit. The empennage is set low in the design and houses the shaft utilized to run the tail rotor assembly which is set to the portside of the aircraft in a conventional fashion atop the vertical tail fin. A pair of horizontal tailplanes are affixed well below this vertical fin. The undercarriage is static in its design and made up of two single-wheeled main landing gear legs along the forward sides of the fuselage with a single-wheeled tail leg under the vertical tail fin. Weapons will be stored externally across "wingstubs" emanating from either side of the fuselage. In all, the T-129 will showcase much of the same qualities inherent in other dedicated attack helicopter designs of the world.

Technical specifications of the T-129 include a take-off weight of 11,023lbs with a fuselage running length of 41 feet, an overall height of 11.2 feet and rotor diameter of 39 feet. Performance will be enhanced through the pairing of the LHTEC CT S800-4A turboshaft engines (produced under local-license) with FADEC capability generating 1,360 shaft horsepower each. This will allow for a maximum cruise speed of 167 miles per hour, a maximum range is listed at 560 miles and a ferry range of 620 miles. The listed maximum mission endurance time of the helicopter is three hours. The engines will power a five-bladed main rotor assembly and two-bladed tail rotor.

The aircraft is being completed with an integrated Aircraft & Mission Management System (AMMS) and will incorporated a laser range finder, laser designator, CCTV (Closed-Circuit TeleVision) and FLIR (Forward-Looking Infra-Red) into its array of onboard facilities. Each pilot will benefit from the technology inherent in their Helmet Mounted Display Systems (HMDS) that will offer night vision capability as well. Various parts of the aircraft will be covered with infra-red suppression technologies and wire cutters will ensure safety when operating in low-altitude urban environments. The helicopter will be also incorporate an ice detection system that will notify pilots of potentially fatal moisture buildup at key systems. In the event of a crash landing, there will be an integrated Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) that will work to transmit the location of the aircraft for ensuing rescue.
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The T-129 cockpit will sport an Avionic Central Control Computer (ACCC) and a 4-axis Automatic Flight Control System (AFCS). Support for VHF and UHF radios will be standard as will an HF radio and IFF (Identification Friend-or-Foe) transponder. The aircraft will be connected to other participating allied battlefield elements by way of an encrypted data link system that will be capable of transmitting video feeds while onboard communications will make use of a frequency "hopping" measure and voice encryption to help counter the threat of communications interception. Cockpit systems functionality will be such that the T-129 will be able to operate in day/night conditions and through adverse weather and heavy smoke as required.

The T-129 crew will have access to an all-digital fully-modernized cockpit as each position will showcase 2 x Multi-Function Displays (MFDs) complete with a real-time moving map, systems and mission software as well as an Inertial Navigation System (INS), Global Positioning System (GPS) and Doppler navigation suite. The crew will also have access to an active/passive countmeasures package intended to protect the aircraft and pilots from inbound homing aerial threats such as surface-to-air missiles.

Pakistan is evaluating T-129

General characteristics
Crew: 2
Empty Weight:2350kg
Maximum Take-Off Weight:11,023lbs (5,000kg)
Powerplant:Engine(s): 2 x LHTEC CTS800-4A turboshaft engines developing 1,360 horsepower each and driving a five-bladed main rotor and two-bladed tail rotor.

Dimensions:
Length: 47.90ft (14.6m)
Width: 39.04ft (11.90m)
Height: 11.15ft (3.40m)

Performance:
Maximum Speed:171mph (275kmh; 148kts)
Maximum Range: 348miles (560km)
Rate-of-Climb: 2,750ft/min (838m/min)
Service Ceiling: 20,013ft (6,100m; 3.8miles)

Armament Suite:
STANDARD:
1 x 20mm three-barreled Gatling cannon in chin turret.

OPTIONAL

(4 wingstub hardpoints):
8 x AGM-114 Hellfire anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs).
8 x BGM-71 TOW anti-tank wire-guided missiles
4/8 x AIM-92 Stinger short-range air-to-air missiles.
4 x AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air-missiles
4 x 70mm (2.75") FFAR rocket pods (7-shot/19-shot versions).
4 x 12.7mm heavy machine gun pods


HAL Light Combat Helicopter

The HAL Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) is a multirole combat helicopter being developed in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for use by the Indian Air Force and the Indian Army.

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The LCH is being designed to fit into an anti-infantry and anti-armour role and will be able to operate at high altitudes, up to 6,000 meters.[14] The LCH design features a narrow fuselage with stealth profiling, armour protection, and will be equipped to conduct day-and-night combat operations. According to reports, the LCH features a digital camouflage system.[15] The LCH has a two-crew cockpit.[16] The helicopter will be equipped with helmet-mounted targeting systems, electronic warfare systems and advanced weapons systems.[citation needed]
Dr. Prasad Sampath, general manager of HAL's Rotary Wing Research & Design Center, told the press during Aero India 2011 that the LCH was ‘probably the most agile design in the world because of its rotor'.[17] Like the Dhruv, it is powered by the HAL/Turbomeca Shakti turboshaft engine.
In 2006, HAL selected the M621 cannon incorporated in a Nexter THL 20 turret for the gun armament of the helicopter, operated by a helmet mounted sight

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General characteristics
Crew: 2
Length: 15.8 m (51 ft 8 in)
Rotor diameter: 13.3 m (43 ft 6 in)
Height: 4.7 m (15 ft 4 in)
Disc area: 138.9 m² (1,472 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,250 kg (5,975 lb)
Loaded weight: 3,800 kg (8,405 lb)
Useful load: 3,350 kg (7,410 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 5,800 kg (12,825 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × HAL/Turbomeca Shakti turboshaft, 1,067 kW (1,430 shp[24]) each
Performance
Never exceed speed: 330 km/h (178 knots, 207 mph)
Maximum speed: 275 km/h (148 knots, 171 mph)
Cruise speed: 260 km/h (140 knots, 161 mph)
Range: 700 km (297 nmi, 342 mi)
Service ceiling: 6,500 m (21,300 ft)
Rate of climb: 12 m/s (2,362 ft/min)
Disc loading: 39.59 kg/m² (8.23 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 327 W/kg (0.198 hp/lb)

Armament
Guns: M621 20 mm cannon on Nexter THL-20 turret
Rockets: 60/80 mm caliber rockets[21]
Missiles: MBDA air-to-air missiles
Air-to-surface missiles
Anti-radiation missiles
Helina anti-tank missile
Bombs: Gravity bombs
cluster bombs
grenade launchers

Bath fall under same category so camparison make sense.
Also Pakistan most probably will order t129

LCH_COMPARISON-page-001.jpg
compare with new lch td3
 
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Whatever but we need to slightly change the design by adding tech of the US stealth fighter, to cover tail rotor fan, add five main rotor blades, and the nozzle gas to be added with tail air flow, which give it better power to stealth..............
 
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Guys calm down.....WE ALSO HAVE THIS BEAST!!HAL RUDRA......:victory:
 

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U can't compare ATAK which is in full fluent manufacturing and LCH which still not sure what it will become given DRDO record even MI 25 Ipick over LCH
 
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