T-84 oplot M fails testing what now for the army, in terms of tanks?

[nomi007]

T-84 IS too late

actual war horse arrive

Another gift arrived

 

[kaonalpha]

T-84 IS too late

actual war horse arrive

Another gift arrived

You simply copy pasted pictures of mbt 3000 which arrived In december last year 2014 for trials.

 

[thrilainmanila]

i'll say this again this isn't the answer to the pak armys problems vs india, the pak army need new generation ATGM not 3rd class 1980s HJ-8, they need IFVs, And most importantly they need a proper SAM network, these tanks are just sitting ducks for IAF to take out, without a proper airforce who will support these tanks?

 

[salarsikander]

i'll say this again this isn't the answer to the pak armys problems vs india, the pak army need new generation ATGM not 3rd class 1980s HJ-8, they need IFVs, And most importantly they need a proper SAM network, these tanks are just sitting ducks for IAF to take out, without a proper airforce who will support these tanks?

Hi,
reported for trolling @Horus

You mean the dwindling IAF? where sqn levels are dangerously low ? I am sure they pose no threat

 

[帅的一匹]

As we are no longer going to take chinses tanks. Because of certain kickback issues.
1500 hp

Kickback? Tell me how much we pay in JF17 deal?

 

[Shabi1]

Your comments are unwarranted. Both the tanks had different mission profiles.

This is a second hand information, may be some more knowledgeable members would be able to verify it.

The T-64-> T-80 evolution is like a lot of things Russian, an outgrowth of Russian military politics as well as Red Army tradition. The Russians back when they were the Soviets had TWO complimentary tank design bureaus and two design requirements. The Leningrad crowd specialized in complex "breakthrough" tanks while the Uralvagonzavod designed the line of simple "cruiser" attrition warfare tanks.

The result is that we have two tanks that share a lot of superficial features but designed for ostensibly very different missions. As is the trend of the T-34>T-55>T-62>T-72 which is a throwaway tank-designed mainly for general comb and mainly infantry support, the T-80 traces its lineage to a redesign for a a tank that was to fill the operations niche left by the IS and T-10 series of heavy assault tanks.

The T-90 is the improved variant of the '80 once again with most of the bugs ironed out.

That is the basic difference between the two T series tanks, as to which is better, that depends solely upon the crews within the mbt and how well they are drilled.

Please read the history about why T-90 was made. Not debating T-90 here, there are other posts for that. Since Kontakt-5 ERA armor was later not available to Ukraine they developed their own ERA for further T80U/84s which they claim is now much superior.

"The T-90 is a Russian third-generationmain battle tank that is essentially a modernisation of the T-72B, incorporating many features of the T-80U (it was originally to be called the T-72BU, later renamed to T-90)................

By 1992, the Russian Ministry of Defence announced that it could no longer afford to manufacture two main battle tanks in parallel.[8] Since both the "quality" T-80U and the cheaper "quantity" T-72B were being built at different plants, and each plant was critical to the economy of its city, the government gave small orders to both. Omsk built five T-80Us and Nizhny Tagil built fifteen T-72s, and both built more in the hopes of winning large export orders. Nizhny Tagil had built a few T-72BAs, T-72Bs upgraded with a third generation add-on explosive reactive armour (ERA) called Kontakt-5, which was already in service on the T-80U.[8]

To further improve the T-72's export prospects and its chances of being selected as Russia's sole production main battle tank, the T-80U's more sophisticated fire control system was also added to produce a vehicle designated T-72BU. The T-90 was developed by the Kartsev-Venediktov Design Bureau at the Uralvagonzavod factory in Nizhny Tagil. The production model is based on the T-72BM, with some added features from the T-80 series.[8]
"

T-90 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kaonalpha]

Not you our political parties try to get it via stopping development and demanding a so called fee.

China has always been gracious in extending it's towards us.

Nothing personal but the mbt 3000 has faults. What exactly it will be clear in the coming months. But we might try to use it from a different perspective.

Kickback? Tell me how much we pay in JF17 deal?

 

[Sulman Badshah]

T-84 IS too late

actual war horse arrive

Another gift arrived

these images are from december ... and mbt3000 failed in desert test

 

[waz]

Sir why do u think turks have better chance now as perhaps Pak has already preferred T84 OPLOT M for present?
Further Atlay is in development phase we may integrate some of it's tech on our homegrown tanks as we did in the past but due to cost factors/foreign parts odds are against Atlay.

Well bro the OPLOT is only for part of the tank fleet and will probably replace the likes of the type 85 and type 69.
The Altay is in a different league and well past its development phase. It is undergoing trials for the Turkish army and has been very impressive so far. Altay in its later batch will be completely indigenous.

 

[Hakan]

India already outnumbers pakistan with regard to tanks, they have 1200 good T-90's and they have 2500 T-72's which are better than Pakistan's older chinese based tanks. Now Pakistan is getting more tanks (T-84) that do not have an advantage over the T-90's or at least a significant advantage. Pakistan needs to get some Altays, this is what will give it the edge over India's tanks.

Check out the Greek Tank trials where they compared Leo 2, Abrams, Challenger 2, and T-84 Oplot.

 

[rockstar08]

Time is also a cost.

so should i conclude that we are in hurry to buy some Tanks ?? could be for replacement of some old version UD's i think ?
or i understand it wrong ?

 

[Umair Nawaz]

In 10 years, Only 450 al Khalid have been manufactured. We need to replace 1500 tanks in like 10 years. This is where foreign tanks comes in the picture

600+

 

[waz]

Sir, I do agree with some of the points, you have raised. ALTAY is essentially in a development phase, Its engine is German, we dont know how it will perform in our hot climate. The indigenous Turkish engine development is planned but how it will go ahead in future, no body knows.
Price tag around $6million v/s OPLOT $4.5 million
Currently Ukraine needs money, we may get good discounts on it. Look on bigger picture, we may get complete ToT (including engines) and IFV deal as well.
Turkey's tank is a future thing. Ukraine was the industrial hub of Soviet Union. T series plant was essentially in Ukraine. Ukraine industrial know how in tank design and engine technology is superior to Turks as of now. Lastly if you are placing your bets on ALTAY, then there is no logic of AK2 project.

Brother the development phase is at an end and we'll see improvements from now on. The tank is undergoing extensive trials now with the Turkish army. As for how it will perform in hot climates, the German Leopard operating the same engine has done very well in Afghanistan's extreme heat. The indigenous phase is in full swing e.g. it's own Turkish engine. The price tag is also negligible, especially considering the massive step-up we gain in technology.
I'm not saying the OPLOT is not great, it is, but the army should go for the OPLOT to replace a large number of our obsolete tanks and go for the Altay at the higher end. Your points on technology transfer are spot on, but this wouldn't be a problem with the Turks, who are our strategic allies.
You're right about Ukraine's past, but it is the past. Currently Ukraine is suffering economically, on a war footing practically and therefore it is questionable if it could commit as of now to Pakistan's requirements.
As for their knowhow being superior to the Turks, that might have been the case in the past but Turkey has made huge leaps and bounds in this department and do remember they have the South Koreans on board as partners, who have added their expertise with the K2 Black Panther. They bring with them a technical level far greater than Ukraine's.
The AK2 project seems to be a non-starter.


If any brothers would like to see the progress of the Altay please visit this thread and see what our Turkish kin are up to.

Altay MBT Program | Page 115

It will answer many questions.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

India already outnumbers pakistan with regard to tanks, they have 1200 good T-90's and they have 2500 T-72's which are better than Pakistan's older chinese based tanks. Now Pakistan is getting more tanks (T-84) that do not have an advantage over the T-90's or at least a significant advantage. Pakistan needs to get some Altays, this is what will give it the edge over India's tanks.

Check out the Greek Tank trials where they compared Leo 2, Abrams, Challenger 2, and T-84 Oplot.

india as of right now is stuck with 500 T-90S.
1700+ T-72s (without night visions and bursting canons)
And 118_24 Arjun's.


Pak has an EDGE.. Our AK-I is much better than their T-90s.. They bought T-90s to compete with our UDs !


Pak tank fleet :

600 AK-I's
325 UDs (upgraded)
550+ AZs
500-600 Type-85IIAPs (We're modified variants produced by Pak)
Etc etc!


Oplots have an advantage over anything india has... AK-I itself beats T-90 on pure specs !

As for Altay nope... We don't need that... When we have our own AK Project.. The smartest thing (which is being done) is getting subsystems if Altay... According to HIT officials they are going for Turkish systems to equip AK.. Which till now has been using French systems like Matis etc.. Turkish ones are a little cheaper and on par with French ones... That's an advantage in itself.


Oplots share similarities with out UDs or 84s.. With 60% ToT that's another advantage.

P.S: Altay is useless in our terrain ... Specially in Punjab and Sindh.. Apart from the soil.. Our canal systems,rails,bridges cant support such a heavy tank...

Brother the development phase is at an end and we'll see improvements from now on. The tank is undergoing extensive trials now with the Turkish army. As for how it will perform in hot climates, the German Leopard operating the same engine has done very well in Afghanistan's extreme heat. The indigenous phase is in full swing e.g. it's own Turkish engine. The price tag is also negligible, especially considering the massive step-up we gain in technology.
I'm not saying the OPLOT is not great, it is, but the army should go for the OPLOT to replace a large number of our obsolete tanks and go for the Altay at the higher end. Your points on technology transfer are spot on, but this wouldn't be a problem with the Turks, who are our strategic allies.
You're right about Ukraine's past, but it is the past. Currently Ukraine is suffering economically, on a war footing practically and therefore it is questionable if it could commit as of now to Pakistan's requirements.
As for their knowhow being superior to the Turks, that might have been the case in the past but Turkey has made huge leaps and bounds in this department and do remember they have the South Koreans on board as partners, who have added their expertise with the K2 Black Panther. They bring with them a technical level far greater than Ukraine's.
The AK2 project seems to be a non-starter.


If any brothers would like to see the progress of the Altay please visit this thread and see what our Turkish kin are up to.

Altay MBT Program | Page 115

It will answer many questions.

Sir there is Alot of difference between Northern Pak and the plains of Punjab and deserts of Sindh...

Abrams failing in the 90s.. Indian T-90s cooking their FCS & engines etc ... Apart from that the infrastructure constraints...

And even our AK project etc make Altay undesirable!


But the good news is that AK will use Altays subsystems...like gunner,commander sights etc.

 

[VelocuR]

How does oplot compares with T-90 MS because afaik India signed a USD 1.6 Billion deal for around 350 T-90 MS.

Just a query without any insinuation

Really? That's great advantage over us, India plan to obtain 236. Any link?

Trial:

This trial is more impressive and more powers than Thailand's own T-84 Oplot trial in the previous page.