T-129 Atak & Turkish Attack Helicopter Programs

[The Last of us]

@cabatli_53
How come Turkey decided to go developing the T-129 and not the Cobra as your national attack heli? Is it because the Americans would not allow Turkey to use cobra as a template for your national heli or was it that you found the A-129 is better suited for your needs? I suppose if you did use the cobra, you may find problems being able to sell them on the market as the Americans may create problems.

Do you feel T-129 will be superior to potential Cobra upgrades?

 

[cabatli_53]

@cabatli_53
How come Turkey decided to go developing the T-129 and not the Cobra as your national attack heli? Is it because the Americans would not allow Turkey to use cobra as a template for your national heli or was it that you found the A-129 is better suited for your needs? I suppose if you did use the cobra, you may find problems being able to sell them on the market as the Americans may create problems.

Do you feel T-129 will be superior to potential Cobra upgrades?

At early 2000's, Turkey favoured AH-1Z King Cobra as the winner of our massive attack helicopter tender. The project contains procurement of 145 attack helicopter and model was direct purchase. What Turkey wanted from USA is to install just our own mission computers and joint production of some minor parts of USA King Cobras but It is refused so The whole tender is cancelled.

Second tender opened in 2005 but This time, Turkey announced new tenders' difficult regulations that USA institutes can't even dare to approach. It is underlined that Turkey will not order off the shelf but re-develop/produce winner copters in accordance with our own requirements. The participants was Russia/Israel KA-52, Eurocopter Tiger, Denel Rooivalk, Italy A-129. Russian struggled to take tender but eliminated. Eurocopter Tiger was expected to be %100 winner but Cause of Armenian issues and French government attitudes, Tiger was also eliminated. Remained two copters, Rooivalk/A-129 was put into a deadly prerogative competition, since both was as hungry as a bear to get the winner. It was Italy who meet almost all our expectations and delivered their production brands, rights, export figures, strategic production capabilities along with co-development/future variant development and all life service/meintenance/spare part production/special investment on critical part...etc In accordance with those roadway, Turkey/Italy re-designed T129 in accordance with purely Turkey's requirements based on Italian A129 expertize and so Today's T129 are created with different variants. After this period, It is a Turkish copter with all intellectual and property rights including future variants, new modifications, trainings, maintenance issues.

When It comes to performance, If you check the figures, You are going to see that It is one of the best copter, even better than AH-1W on most figures. Turkish Army is also enjoying the performance of new copters and describe them as Ferrari of sky since 2x 1350shp engines are powering up an attack helicopter which has a MTOW of 5 tonnes.

From second tender ! Russian political cards didn't find a answer at SSIK meeting.

 

[The Last of us]

@cabatli_53

Thanks for the taking the time to reply. Very interesting. I really like the Turkish A-129 (especially in black ). Hopefully, in the next decade, we'll see something similar from Iran. Turkey is involved in alot of modern innovation when it comes to her military, sadly, we don't currently see this from Iran.Only in the missile tech and maybe some radar is Iran good.

Anyhow, I have seen recently Turkey has created an active defence system for your Altay Tank. Why not go ahead and develop a similar active defence system for your helicopters? Active air defence for helicopter is something I am surprised we have not yet seen.

Anyway, all the best in the A-129 project.

 

[cabatli_53]

@cabatli_53

Thanks for the taking the time to reply. Very interesting. I really like the Turkish A-129 (especially in black ). Hopefully, in the next decade, we'll see something similar from Iran. Turkey is involved in alot of modern innovation when it comes to her military, sadly, we don't currently see this from Iran.Only in the missile tech and maybe some radar is Iran good.

Anyhow, I have seen recently Turkey has created an active defence system for your Altay Tank. Why not go ahead and develop a similar active defence system for your helicopters? Active air defence for helicopter is something I am surprised we have not yet seen.

Anyway, all the best in the A-129 project.

Iranian politicians know their jobs better indeed but From my percpective, They did lots of mistakes on foreign affiairs so delivered their own country into the difficult conditions of such a strong embargo. If they were able to keep their mouths and not threatened some special countries, Iran wouldn't have attracted big boys interests at present. I strongly believe that If Iran didn't face such strong embargoes, Turkey/Iran collaboration would have generated lots of defence projects like talked above within last 10 years because It is known that Turkey wants to work togather with Iran on many fields, and Despite many political disagreements, It is even talked that Turkey penetrated embargoes under the table. Anyway, Hope to removal of embargoes in a short time and work on big projects togather since Iran has a big and capable industry which is able to develop many strategic gears.

and Hard-kill on helicopters are a good idea but Aerial platforms are not heavily protected like tanks so The strong impact power of hard-kill munition next to flying aerial fuselage may cause a serious damage. It may cause like a friend-fire effect. Most probably, It is the reason of such brillant ideas haven't taken place until now.

 

[-------]

Iranian politicians know their jobs better indeed but From my percpective, They did lots of mistakes on foreign affiairs so delivered their own country into the difficult conditions of such a strong embargo. If they were able to keep their mouths and not threatened some special countries, Iran wouldn't have attracted big boys interests at present. I strongly believe that If Iran didn't face such strong embargoes, Turkey/Iran collaboration would have been generated lots of defence projects like talked above within last 10 years because It is known that Turkey wants to work togather with Iran on many fields, and Despite many political disagreements, It is even talked that Turkey penetrated embargoes under the table. Anyway, Hope to removal of embargoes in a short time and work on big projects togather since Iran has a big and capable industry which is able to develop many strategic gears.

and Hard-kill on helicopters are a good idea but Aerial platforms are not heavily protected like tanks so The strong impact power of hard-kill munition next to flying aerial fuselage may cause a serious damage. It may cause like a friend-fire effect. Most probably, It is the reason of such brillant ideas haven't taken place until now.

Bro isn't there DIRCM project ?

 

[cabatli_53]

Bro isn't there DIRCM project ?

I will check it out bro but I accept that It is the first time I have heart about it....

 

[The Last of us]

Iranian politicians know their jobs better indeed but From my percpective, They did lots of mistakes on foreign affiairs so delivered their own country into the difficult conditions of such a strong embargo. If they were able to keep their mouths and not threatened some special countries, Iran wouldn't have attracted big boys interests at present. I strongly believe that If Iran didn't face such strong embargoes, Turkey/Iran collaboration would have generated lots of defence projects like talked above within last 10 years because It is known that Turkey wants to work togather with Iran on many fields, and Despite many political disagreements, It is even talked that Turkey penetrated embargoes under the table. Anyway, Hope to removal of embargoes in a short time and work on big projects togather since Iran has a big and capable industry which is able to develop many strategic gears.

and Hard-kill on helicopters are a good idea but Aerial platforms are not heavily protected like tanks so The strong impact power of hard-kill munition next to flying aerial fuselage may cause a serious damage. It may cause like a friend-fire effect. Most probably, It is the reason of such brillant ideas haven't taken place until now.

Bro, I think you're just being too kind on Iran reality is, despite Iran's good achievement in some industrial sector and military, Iran really needs to learn from Turkey when it comes to quality and reduce propaganda they show. Looking at Turkeys military industry, some of the the quality looks on par if not better than what Germany makes. Looking at your altay, Pars 4x4 etc. This is not something I am saying to propitiate, but it is the truth.

Even in these forums, despite how protective Iranians might seem in their achievement and might even compare Iran to Turkey, they know fully well that most of the Iranian military is nowhere near Turkey in quality and indigenous design wise etc. Sadly, we cannot expect real change in Iran as long as Mullas are running Iran.

I too hope to see cooperation between Iran and Turkey because Iran can learn alot from Turkish quality orientated mentality.

Sorry I took the thread a bit off topic, this is about T-129.

 

[cabatli_53]

Bro isn't there DIRCM project ?

Bro, It(AN/AAQ-24(V) DIRCM) seems that It has a lazer source on it. Instead of a munition like impact next to aircraft, It bases upon directing lazer source on coming missiles to explode before entering into critical zone. Right ? Is there any helicopter based application example that you know bro ?

Bro, I think you're just being too kind on Iran reality is, despite Iran's good achievement in some industrial sector and military, Iran really needs to learn from Turkey when it comes to quality and reduce propaganda they show. Looking at Turkeys military industry, some of the the quality looks on par if not better than what Germany makes. Looking at your altay, Pars 4x4 etc. This is not something I am saying to propitiate, but it is the truth.

Even in these forums, despite how protective Iranians might seem in their achievement and might even compare Iran to Turkey, they know fully well that most of the Iranian military is nowhere near Turkey in quality and indigenous design wise etc. Sadly, we cannot expect real change in Iran as long as Mullas are running Iran.

I too hope to see cooperation between Iran and Turkey because Iran can learn alot from Turkish quality orientated mentality.

Sorry I took the thread a bit off topic, this is about T-129.

S. Korea learnt from USA to develop tanks, Europe for helicopters, Italy learnt from Apache to develop their copter industry, Turkey learns from multiple sources like S. Korea for tanks, Italy for helicopter industry, Germany for naval industry. A country like Russia has already been proceeding to learn from France, Germany, Italy. It is How countries learn on global world. Base technology is same but It just changes hand with additinal modifications in accordance with new design parameters but Cause of political reasons, Iran seems to be out of this cycle so The first ambitious project Iran should generate, must be to find a way for removing those embargoes as soon as possible. Otherwise, Every process will take longer, problems will be more difficult to overcome on projects. Anyway, I believe The future will be better for both Turkey and Iran. It will always be found something which is going to be learnt from eachothers. It is just the wills and intents driving the roadways bro.

 

[-------]

Bro, It(AN/AAQ-24(V) DIRCM) seems that It has a lazer source on it. Instead of a munition like impact next to aircraft, It bases upon directing lazer source on coming missiles to explode before entering into critical zone. Right ? Is there any helicopter based application example that you know bro ?




S. Korea learnt from USA to develop tanks, Europe for helicopters, Italy learnt from Apache to develop their copter industry, Turkey learns from multiple sources like S. Korea for tanks, Italy for helicopter industry, Germany for naval industry. A country like Russia has already been proceeding to learn from France, Germany, Italy. It is How countries learn on global world but Cause of political reasons, Iran seems to be out of this cycle so The first ambitious project Iran should generate, must be to find a way for removing those embargoes as soon as possible. Otherwise, Every process will take longer, problems will be more difficult to overcome on projects. Anyway, I believe The future will be better for both Turkey and Iran. It will always be found something which is going to be learnt from eachothers bro.

Yes bro, the one you quoted can is currently used on helicopters.
Aircraft in Detail - AgustaWestland EH101 Merlin Walkaround Gallery Index

 

[cabatli_53]

Yes bro, the one you quoted can is currently used on helicopters.
Aircraft in Detail - AgustaWestland EH101 Merlin Walkaround Gallery Index

A perfect innovation bro.
Thanks for informing !

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Turkish Atak has already an 360 degree lasert alert System wrong ? Or is it in prototype Status ?

 

[BordoEnes]

Bro, I think you're just being too kind on Iran reality is, despite Iran's good achievement in some industrial sector and military, Iran really needs to learn from Turkey when it comes to quality and reduce propaganda they show. Looking at Turkeys military industry, some of the the quality looks on par if not better than what Germany makes. Looking at your altay, Pars 4x4 etc. This is not something I am saying to propitiate, but it is the truth.

Even in these forums, despite how protective Iranians might seem in their achievement and might even compare Iran to Turkey, they know fully well that most of the Iranian military is nowhere near Turkey in quality and indigenous design wise etc. Sadly, we cannot expect real change in Iran as long as Mullas are running Iran.

I too hope to see cooperation between Iran and Turkey because Iran can learn alot from Turkish quality orientated mentality.

Sorry I took the thread a bit off topic, this is about T-129.

Those are words that i never expected to come from an Iranian in my short existence on this world. This is just what most Turkish(Atleast the intellectuel and worthwhile ones) forumers tried to tell you guys. We DONT hate Iran and we DONT wanna belittle your country or your achievements.

Everything Iran did regarding military development and procedures are questionable yes but still understandable. You were sanction for so many years that the shortcoming regarding military developments and achievement was expected, but even then Iran did better then most expected (especcialy in the field of Ballistic Missiles). Its just that whenever some random Iranian forumer comes and said that Bavar is better then S-300 for whatever reason, we are there to question it. Which in turn is always taken ill.

Dont worry, regardless of political difference co-operation between Iran and Turkey seems to be booming especcialy in many civilian industrial sectors. I can say with every shred of pride intact that Iran is one of the few Muslim countries which actually has a future worth discussing. Though i pray the day comes Iran would be liberated from Mullah scum and actually can live up to its fullest potential.

Question as much as you like, we are here to answer back with proper manners.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Iran was ruled for centuries by 10 different Turkish Empires. The population of Turkish Azeris is almost at the Level of Persian, I don't want mention Arabs and Beludschis. Iran has a very intellectual Population and deep experience in science and literature from the history. We can say that Ibn-Sina and Mevlana always mentioned as pure Turkish are Turkish Persian mix. Iran's Military industry is based on fakes, otherwise they wouldn't insist so much on Nukes. Remember they fighted 10 years against Irak, whose soldiers are well known as "running rabbits"; but nothing happened Irak won 10 km then Iran got it back. Almost 2 Million soldiers were killed, most of them Azeris on Iranian side. It was much Trouble for nothing. If the Mullah Regime will fall down sometime, Iran can do much for the wealth of the Region.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Till today we didn't see any 3D of T-129B2...

BTW we will have B1s & B2s.... I think in operations & war times B1s will be just like B2s by teaming up 1+1 or 1+2...

I mean 1 B2 + 1 B1 or 1 B2 + 2 B1... KEMENT project will provide this... Actually i think KEMENT will provide much more then this, i mean all systems under 1 umbrella but i guess you understood what i mean...

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Tactical Data Links - Link 16 or ?