Superseded Officers: Handle them with Compassion

[Levina]

The darker side of Indian army...

I thought it was important to know the other side of Indian army and how poorly it treats its own men when they need the support of the organization most...
I have seen a few superseded officers, and the situation they face.
This one is dedicated to the officers who had to sacrifice their careers because they did not massage the ego of their super seniors.

@Abingdonboy @anant_s @nair @Star Wars @SrNair @ranjeet

 

[asad71]

An excellent exposition. Perhaps the armies should consider two tracks of promotion. Cat -1 is the present one based on laid down requisites. Cat-2 should be a time based promotion. These Cat-2 officers should only be posted to selected staff, instructional, and various sedentary jobs besides para military and defense related organizations. All armies / nations should rethink about loosing a well trained man because he has been superseded for some silly mistake he committed in his long years of service.

 

[anant_s]

At the end of the day, an army officer too is a human. They are professionals and once they get overtaken in a rat race, people like us in civilian life are forced to contend with, i suppose any heartbreak or getting demoralized is understandable.
I think the answer to this lies in defining clear cut roadmap of career progression for a person and counselling of some sort to a person who fails to make the cut.

@Technogaianist @Vauban @Joe Shearer

 

[Nimitam]

Life is not Fair.

Thousands of Soldiers have been superseded and denied bravery awards and recognition because they are not from NDA. They are made to polish shoes and carry bags of the officers wives.

It would have been more honourable for this 'officer' to worry about this travesty than asking for compassion for his brother 'officers'.


Take a look at the list of 'bravery' awards given out by the Defence forces. The vast majority of them will be for 'officers' never for the 'Jawans'. I guess the obvious conclusion is that the 'officers' are always more brave than the 100-200 jawans they command. Amazing.


The only time jawans won bravery awards was during the time of the British raj

 

[Joe Shearer]

Life is not Fair.

Thousands of Soldiers have been superseded and denied bravery awards and recognition because they are not from NDA. They are made to polish shoes and carry bags of the officers wives.

It would have been more honourable for this 'officer' to worry about this travesty than asking for compassion for his brother 'officers'.


Take a look at the list of 'bravery' awards given out by the Defence forces. The vast majority of them will be for 'officers' never for the 'Jawans'. I guess the obvious conclusion is that the 'officers' are always more brave than the 100-200 jawans they command. Amazing.


The only time jawans won bravery awards was during the time of the British raj

This controversy between officers and other ranks is as old as the Greeks and the Romans. I wouldn't be so cavalier about the extra burden on officers; it is easy to be democratic about something like the military, but it never worked - I can walk you right through military history and show you how every time it had to be reversed - painfully - and the older system reinstated.

This is just an illusion. Pure rubbish.

An excellent exposition. Perhaps the armies should consider two tracks of promotion. Cat -1 is the present one based on laid down requisites. Cat-2 should be a time based promotion. These Cat-2 officers should only be posted to selected staff, instructional, and various sedentary jobs besides para military and defense related organizations. All armies / nations should rethink about loosing a well trained man because he has been superseded for some silly mistake he committed in his long years of service.

I have two reactions to this: one is that what you propose amounts to downgrading the staff, instructional and 'sedentary' jobs, which is extremely dangerous. A recent chief of army staff was appointed from the training command, to everybody's astonishment, and now that command has been delicately declared 'out of bounds' for choice of the chief (he was a good chief, as it happens, and only the second of his ethnic group - you should be able to spot him, @asad71 ).

The second is that there is a huge gap in management resources in the education and training areas, and India is likely to lose her so-called demographic advantage totally in the absence of immediate and planned, aggressive diversion of good management and leadership talent from the military to these spheres. The task is gargantuan, and only a very determined effort on war footing can win this particular war; just the ticket for our good people in the forces, because what a fauji has to offer is (usually) streets ahead of what civilian life has to offer.

 

[Omega007]

This controversy between officers and other ranks is as old as the Greeks and the Romans. I wouldn't be so cavalier about the extra burden on officers; it is easy to be democratic about something like the military, but it never worked - I can walk you right through military history and show you how every time it had to be reversed - painfully - and the older system reinstated.

This is just an illusion. Pure rubbish.

Exactly,considering that not everyone is cut out (or trained) to lead and lead in difficult situations and that too with the added burden of the men he commands,nor it would be practical to call for a discussion meeting when your position is being pounded left and right and you have to carry out your objective within a set period of time!!

 

[asad71]

This controversy between officers and other ranks is as old as the Greeks and the Romans. I wouldn't be so cavalier about the extra burden on officers; it is easy to be democratic about something like the military, but it never worked - I can walk you right through military history and show you how every time it had to be reversed - painfully - and the older system reinstated.

This is just an illusion. Pure rubbish.



I have two reactions to this: one is that what you propose amounts to downgrading the staff, instructional and 'sedentary' jobs, which is extremely dangerous. A recent chief of army staff was appointed from the training command, to everybody's astonishment, and now that command has been delicately declared 'out of bounds' for choice of the chief (he was a good chief, as it happens, and only the second of his ethnic group - you should be able to spot him, @asad71 ).

The second is that there is a huge gap in management resources in the education and training areas, and India is likely to lose her so-called demographic advantage totally in the absence of immediate and planned, aggressive diversion of good management and leadership talent from the military to these spheres. The task is gargantuan, and only a very determined effort on war footing can win this particular war; just the ticket for our good people in the forces, because what a fauji has to offer is (usually) streets ahead of what civilian life has to offer.

Cat-2 will not populate the entire staff and instructional appointments. But there are always good officers passed over because some CO somewhere didn't like him. Or he became a victim of circumstances. A bulging lot in the army and the society of fairly young age is unhealthy. Nations should explore ways to use their talent and keep them away from being unhappy / disgruntled. Cat-2 was one suggestion that I came out with. There could be others. But the current system isn't fair - especially when counterparts in civilian jobs are not so handicapped.

 

[Nimitam]

This controversy between officers and other ranks is as old as the Greeks and the Romans. I wouldn't be so cavalier about the extra burden on officers; it is easy to be democratic about something like the military, but it never worked - I can walk you right through military history and show you how every time it had to be reversed - painfully - and the older system reinstated.

This is just an illusion. Pure rubbish.

The burden on the officer is the burden of their job. It is no more than the burden they can carry or what they have been trained for. The same way all of us carry the burden of our duties and responsibilities.

However the skewed statistics of the award issued to Jawans and Officers is a reality. A simple review of the Vir Chakra, Maha Vir Chakra and Param Vir Chakra will show the stark disparity and Bias.

The end result is that every year the death ratio of our officer to jawans keeps increasing.

The alternative is to see this as proof of the fact that jawans are not too inspired by the leadership to commit to the war. This results in far too many officers taking unnecessary risk in hopes of inspiring the jawans.

Anyway you look at it, IA doe not come out looking good.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The burden on the officer is the burden of their job. It is no more than the burden they can carry or what they have been trained for. The same way all of us carry the burden of our duties and responsibilities.

However the skewed statistics of the award issued to Jawans and Officers is a reality. A simple review of the Vir Chakra, Maha Vir Chakra and Param Vir Chakra will show the stark disparity and Bias.

The end result is that every year the death ratio of our officer to jawans keeps increasing.

The alternative is to see this as proof of the fact that jawans are not too inspired by the leadership to commit to the war. This results in far too many officers taking unnecessary risk in hopes of inspiring the jawans.

Anyway you look at it, IA doe not come out looking good.

Your lack of knowledge of this matter is stupendous. I am really horrified. This is not said lightly.

 

[Nimitam]

Your lack of knowledge of this matter is stupendous. I am really horrified. This is not said lightly.

I am not interested in your 'personal opinions' or any certificates you desire to issue. Consult a shrink for your 'feelings' and discuss it with them, not me.

Reply back only if you have anything more to say on the subject matter.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I am not interested in your 'personal opinions' or any certificates you desire to issue. Consult a shrink for your 'feelings' and discuss it with them, not me.

Reply back only if you have anything more to say on the subject matter.

That does not decrease your ignorance, which is on full display. I notice that you may have been similarly disinterested even earlier than with me, from your glorious record, again on full display. How do you have the effrontery to be on a defence forum?

 

[Nimitam]

That does not decrease your ignorance, which is on full display. I notice that you may have been similarly disinterested even earlier than with me, from your glorious record, again on full display. How do you have the effrontery to be on a defence forum?

Spare me your worthless opinions and stop wasting my time. My effrontery if any, is a good response to your buffoonery.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Spare me your worthless opinions and stop wasting my time. My effrontery if any, is a good response to your buffoonery.

And you think putting your answer in rhyme improves its quality? About as much as might be expected. I agree with you, individually, that my opinions are worthless, but a lot of the others seem to disagree. Who am I to hold out against public opinion?

 

[Nimitam]

And you think putting your answer in rhyme improves its quality? About as much as might be expected. I agree with you, individually, that my opinions are worthless, but a lot of the others seem to disagree. Who am I to hold out against public opinion?

If you want to be the one eyed king then that is your problem. I really don't care. Stop quoting me.

 

[Joe Shearer]

If you want to be the one eyed king then that is your problem. I really don't care. Stop quoting me.

As bad at English as at military matters. I wasn't quoting you, only referring to your post. Lots of differences, but then, you would hardly be expected to know.

You just called the bulk of PDF blind. Nice going.