Sun Tzu Doctrine for Asia

[Abhitej]

Quite a foolish idea. People over estimate capabilities of China. The most likely scenario is an internal coup in China. Already there is lot of friction between two groups led by President & Prime Minister of China. China is at crossroad now. It may explode. Trade is already contracting. Manufacturing & Real Estate is in deflation. There is risk to financial system due to debt & excess capacity.

In Asia, Japan & South Korea are far more advanced than China. China manufactures cheap goods. Its may never get technologically as advanced as US, Europe, Japan.

In Asia there are three types of systems. 1. Democracies 2. Religious Kingdoms 3. Communist autocrats. These 3 do not go together & there will be no union. India finds itself comfortable having relations with US, Europe, Japan, South Korea.

Lastly a country like India does not need to be part of any group to be successful. We have fertile land, ample water. We are a balanced economy with capabilities in all sectors. We are a world in ourself.

Good post. I admit that sounds rather offensive, but consider this, the USA is largely in control of a small minority of billionaires and media barons, and the USA has at least 33 times the per capita GDP of India. So I rest my case. It is the nature of current incarnations of democracy and Indian democracy is no where as evolved as USA democracy.

But note what I said also in my post, if it is in Indian national interest, Indian masses will support it. We have to swallow our pride sometimes out of practical necessity and I think India will do the same, if China and many other countries in Asia can join in this kind of doctrine and build a sufficient momentum. So controlling India is the wrong way to put it, but I should say rather that India can be persuaded to follow a path that is in its national interest.

US led West is a spent force and they will not be able to hold on to their bases in Asia for much longer. Once countries in Asia figure out that Asia first policy is good for all Asians then that will seal the fate of the West. Like you mentioned in your post, that day is coming in 10-15-20 years, we should get ready for that day and make plans to get organized among ourselves is all I am saying.

You are a fool. You are calling US, Europe a spent force. China has a high GDP because of its population. Chinas per capita GDP will never ever reach even 1/2 that of US.

 

[master_13]

Quite a foolish idea. People over estimate capabilities of China. The most likely scenario is an internal coup in China. Already there is lot of friction between two groups led by President & Prime Minister of China. China is at crossroad now. It may explode. Trade is already contracting. Manufacturing & Real Estate is in deflation. There is risk to financial system due to debt & excess capacity.

In Asia, Japan & South Korea are far more advanced than China. China manufactures cheap goods. Its may never get technologically as advanced as US, Europe, Japan.

In Asia there are three types of systems. 1. Democracies 2. Religious Kingdoms 3. Communist autocrats. These 3 do not go together & there will be no union. India finds itself comfortable having relations with US, Europe, Japan, South Korea.

Lastly a country like India does not need to be part of any group to be successful. We have fertile land, ample water. We are a balanced economy with capabilities in all sectors. We are a world in ourself.


You are a fool. You are calling US, Europe a spent force. China has a high GDP because of its population. Chinas per capita GDP will never ever reach even 1/2 that of US.

yet india has almost just as much population yet low GDP? If china will never reach 1/2 of US, India will never reach 1/3 of China. Anyone can make up numbers and just puke it out. It's funny you bring up korea and japan, when all 3 countries, china, japan and korean view india as backward and still in medieval ages. And all 3 countries agree china is far more advanced than india.

 

[TheTruth]

@kalu_miah My position on this is that China should actively support its friends in Asia, by building infrastructure, granting aid where needed, investing, putting more effort into academic partnerships, doing joint research and resource management, and expanding trade links. Essentially whatever it takes to stabilize the region and with the consent of all parties involved. If after many long years of building trust, the majority of Asian nations wish to work as close partners of China (including Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau and major centers of Chinese civilization outside of China) then that's great. I personally feel we could only accept a leadership role if there is widespread desire and an absolute moral need for it.

As for strategy India has done a lot to isolate herself and this will damage her prospects for leading South Asia. In South Asia, China has good friends in Pakistan and Bangladesh as well as Nepal and Sri Lanka. Pakistan and Bangladesh, if rapidly developed, would be forces to reckon with on the international stage alone. Whether India likes it or not.

Personally I don't believe China should take a leading role, but instead should use her position and strengths to peacefully integrate Asia region by region. Particularly with the long-term goal of benefiting the people of Pak, BD, SL, Nepal, Thailand, Cambodia, and many other close friends. It's in China's best interests to build their strength and stability.

 

[kalu_miah]

@kalu_miah My position on this is that China should actively support its friends in Asia, by building infrastructure, granting aid where needed, investing, putting more effort into academic partnerships, doing joint research and resource management, and expanding trade links. Essentially whatever it takes to stabilize the region and with the consent of all parties involved. If after many long years of building trust, the majority of Asian nations wish to work as close partners of China (including Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau and major centers of Chinese civilization outside of China) then that's great. I personally feel we could only accept a leadership role if there is widespread desire and an absolute moral need for it.

As for strategy India has done a lot to isolate herself and this will damage her prospects for leading South Asia. In South Asia, China has good friends in Pakistan and Bangladesh as well as Nepal and Sri Lanka. Pakistan and Bangladesh, if rapidly developed, would be forces to reckon with on the international stage alone. Whether India likes it or not.

Personally I don't believe China should take a leading role, but instead should use her position and strengths to peacefully integrate Asia region by region. Particularly with the long-term goal of benefiting the people of Pak, BD, SL, Nepal, Thailand, Cambodia, and many other close friends. It's in China's best interests to build their strength and stability.

One Belt, One Road - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Sun Tzu Doctrine as I have proposed in OP will be overtly and directly challenging the US and its current preeminent global position. Instead the One Belt and One Road initiative is a smarter way to achieve the same goals, to integrate Asia internally and to integrate the entire Eurasian landmass as well as integrate Asia with African continent, through infrastructure building - roads and railways in land areas and ports in maritime routes. After all no one can say no to increasing trade and taking initiatives for infrastructure building that will facilitate the increase of trade. For the last few centuries, the West have been largely an exploiter of the world and have thrived with divide and rule policy by making everyone fragmented and weak, except themselves (EU and NATO). If China comes up with a smarter strategy of integrating Asia, Eurasian landmass and Asian-African landmass, then the West should not complain, they had their chances to lead, instead they showed very poor leadership, so they should welcome better leadership for integration which China is showing.

Since this matches with my world view, I welcome China's Belt and Road initiative and initiative for unite and cooperate, instead of divide and rule.

Within South Asia, the current belt part initiated by President Xi's visit in Pakistan is an excellent move, Pakistani's are very happy about it and I am very happy to see it happen.

India is trying to be neutral as much as possible as usual and will try to get maximum benefit from both West and China, playing one off against the other. The BCIM corridor will languish because of their policy confusion and indecision and also because they are deathly scared of giving direct access to North East states land mass to China:

So because of India this will get delayed. The other delaying factor is Myanmar insurgencies. Myanmar govt. may need some help from its neighbors to put down the insurgencies and establish security to make this route viable. When Myanmar problem is resolved, there is a possibility that India still may not agree to provide road access, as it will establish too close economic integration between both Bangladesh and North East states to South East Asia and China. So as an alternate route, China and Myanmar should consider a backup BCM route that can go from Mandalay to Teknaf, Cox's Bazaar, which has previous connecting road via Myanmar and Bangladesh border from British colonial era. This BCM backup route will bypass India entirely. This way India will have additional incentive to hurry up with their BCIM route.

Bangladeshi people, like Pakistan are staunch ally of China, although we maintain good relation with West for economic reasons. India currently interferes in internal politics of Bangladesh and have succeeded to bring the pro-India party into power and also eliminated their opposition. But China has tremendous resources, and if they desired to pay attention, it would be child's play to create division within this party and create a bigger pro-China faction within this party to win against a smaller pro-India faction. This can start with the US$ 15-20B soft loans for the infrastructure projects China is planning for Bangladesh via AIIB. Money after all determines loyalty.

SL was a good learning example for China. China must have good relations and connections with different sides of the political spectrum in a given country. This lesson can be utilized in Bangladesh, where the public and people consider China as a friend who can save us from unfair treatment and bullying from the bigger neighbor (India).

So in brief, I fully agree with Chinese integration initiatives in South Asia, even with a hostile India, where the common people will get benefit and act as a counter balance for irresponsible jingoistic elite's bombastic delusions of grandeur. But as a counter for their foot dragging and delays, I suggest the backup BCM corridor route, that will be a true backup against any Indian adventure and will also work wonders to focus their attention and hurry up with the BCIM project.

 

[kalu_miah]

Commentary: Bandung Spirit still relevant in today's world - Xinhua | English.news.cn

Commentary: Bandung Spirit still relevant in today's world
English.news.cn 2015-04-21

By Tai Beiping, Lu Juan

JARKATA, April 21 (Xinhua) -- Sixty years ago, delegates from 29 Asian and African countries gathered in Bandung, Indonesia for a conference to decide their own future and destiny. That conference gave birth to the Bandung Spirit, calling for solidarity, friendship and cooperation, seeking common ground while shelving differences, and pursuing common development.

More than half a century has passed, drastic and profound changes have taken place in the world. The Bandung Spirit, which upholds principles of solidarity, friendship and cooperation, still holds significant importance for Asian and African nations and the international community as a whole.

Following the Asian-African Conference in 1955, the Bandung Spirit served as an important foundation for building a new international political and economic order that is just and equitable, and provided guidance for developing countries to seek strength through unity and cooperation.

The Bandung Spirit, containing the Ten Principles of Bandung on handling state-to-state relations and the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence, became a widely recognized set of norms for international relations.

Those principles represented a just call for independence, dignity and equality from the oppressed nations, serving as a guiding principle for countries with the same or different social systems to build and grow friendly relation.

The principles also pointed out an effective way for seeking peaceful solutions to outstanding historical issues and disputes in the world, thus making historic contributions to the solidarity and cooperation among Asian and African countries.

Sixty years after the Bandung Conference, the world once again finds itself at a historical juncture amid complicated changes. This time, multi-polarity and globalization are gathering momentum. Countries are becoming increasingly interdependent with a stronger sense of community of common destiny.

In today's Asia and Africa, developing countries are rising as a group. The two continents are leading the world in terms of both development potential and dynamism. This is attributable to the united efforts of peoples on these two continents, and also to the guidance of the Bandung Spirit.

The Bandung Spirit is still needed today as Asian and African countries are faced with the daunting tasks of upholding national security and social stability, accelerating economic and social development, as well as improving people's living standards.

For the world at large, a set of new challenges have also arisen. Traditional and non-traditional security threats are intertwined, the North-South gap is yet to be narrowed, and the balance on economic development and environmental protection needs to be better addressed. To meet these challenges, the Bandung Spirit, which upholds the values of solidarity, friendship and cooperation, can be the most relevant and effective guidelines.

At this historical moment, as Asian-African leaders will gather in Bandung to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the Asian- African Conference, the world needs to join hands so as to carry forward the Bandung Spirit and work tirelessly for the common dignity and wellbeing of all human beings.