Suicide Blast In Muzaffarabad

[wtf]

First of all, I don't think RAW was involved. India has not made an attack like this even at the heights of militancy, and I can't see India starting something like this now with peace process a possibility. I would say these are garden variety terrorists from NWFP trying to expand their area of operations.

Anyway, Is Agnostic Muslim reading this ? He claimed that Saeed Hafiz (a Punjabi) sponsored LeT attacked civilians/military in Kashmir, but that he was not a terrorist but a freedom fighter. His reasoning was that India did not hold a plebiscite in Kashmir. I wonder how that rule applies here. This man was a Pashtun and attacked Pak Kashmir (another area which has not had a plebiscite, so a disputed territory) . Wonder if he would call this guy a freedom fighter ?

(Note: I would not call him a freedom fighter until he wears a uniform, works as part of an organized militia and attacks legit military targets).

 

[wtf]

DAWN.COM | Provinces | Baitullah claims Muzaffarabad suicide attack


Baitullah claims Muzaffarabad suicide attack

MUZAFFARABAD: Two soldiers were killed and at least three others were wounded here on Friday in what was the first ever suicide bombing in Azad Kashmir, police and military officials said.



The early morning attack in an army barrack in Shaukat Lines, housing many army installations, caught security personnel unawares although according to a police official ‘they were on alert for the past four months.’



Witnesses and official sources said the suicide bomber who appeared to be in early twenties walked through a ground, used by army personnel for physical training and local youths for playing cricket and football, and entered into the adjacent residential barrack of non-commissioned army officials where he blew himself up at 6:25 pm after engaging some soldiers in conversation ostensibly to cause maximum casualties.



‘On the premises of barrack the bomber was intercepted by a soldier whom he tried to engage in conversation presumably to attract other soldiers around for maximum physical losses,’ the sources said, adding, the bomber then exploded himself, killing one soldier on the spot and wounding four others who were evacuated to the Combined Military Hospital where one of them died of his wounds.



An army pick-up parked 5-10 yards away from the bomber’s position turned turtle while another one was also damaged by the impact of blast which was heard in most parts of the town.



An intelligence source who reached the affected barrack within moments of explosion told Dawn that he saw the ground splattered with blood and lower limbs and also some parts of the upper limbs of the bomber.



‘But I could not see his head and torso,’ he added.



AJK Inspector General Police Javed Iqbal and other senior officials of AJK administration reached the site of the explosion shortly afterwards and discussed various aspects of attack, its fallout and investigation techniques with military officers who were later joined by the Murree based General Officer Commanding of 12-Division.



It may be mentioned here that the junior section of Army Public School is located in the closest proximity of the barrack that came under attack and several other educational institutions as well as the 5-AK Brigade headquarters also exist nearby, at a distance of two to four hundreds yards.



Several parents were heard voicing concern about the security of their children in the area.



AJK minister for social welfare Mrs Noreen Arif who lives hardly 100 yards away from the targeted barrack also visited the place four hours later and termed the incident ‘very tragic.’



‘We ought to devise a comprehensive strategy to ensure security of our people and combat the menace of terrorism,’ she said, but declined to give a direct reply to the question if the need had arisen to shift the army installations away from civilian populations.



Though Pakistan is in the grip of terrorist attacks, mostly targeting the security personnel, it was the first time that such bombing had taken place in AJK.



A senior police official who did not want to be named told Dawn that the masterminds of Friday’s attack had chosen an army installation in Muzaffarabad for some definite reason, most probably to realise the authorities that they could expand their activities and retaliate the security forces anywhere including Azad Kashmir.



It may be mentioned here that the targeted barrack falls under 5-AK Brigade which is part of Azad Kashmir (AK) Regiment, reportedly carrying out operation against the militants in Swat and adjacent areas.



Responsibility:



A Pakistani Taliban sAJKesman claimed responsibility for the attack.



Hakimullah Mehsud, a deputy of Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud, told The Associated Press the attack was launched to prove that Mehsud had not been weakened by the recent strikes on his suspected hideouts in northwest Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

First of all, I don't think RAW was involved. India has not made an attack like this even at the heights of militancy, and I can't see India starting something like this now with peace process a possibility. I would say these are garden variety terrorists from NWFP trying to expand their area of operations.

Anyway, Is Agnostic Muslim reading this ? He claimed that Saeed Hafiz (a Punjabi) sponsored LeT attacked civilians/military in Kashmir, but that he was not a terrorist but a freedom fighter. His reasoning was that India did not hold a plebiscite in Kashmir. I wonder how that rule applies here. This man was a Pashtun and attacked Pak Kashmir (another area which has not had a plebiscite, so a disputed territory) . Wonder if he would call this guy a freedom fighter ?

(Note: I would not call him a freedom fighter until he wears a uniform, works as part of an organized militia and attacks legit military targets).

How is the Taliban carrying out a suicide attack in any way related to my argument on fighting Indian occupation in disputed Kashmir?

What are the Taliban fighting for? An imposition of their barbaric ideology on all of Pakistan.

Was the purpose behind this attack to 'fight Pakistani occupation of Azad Kashmir'?

Was it to somehow force the GoP to accept the UNSC resolutions calling for self-determination?

It was none of the above - the attack was a continuation of the TTP's efforts to carry out terrorist attacks in Pakistan against both civilians and the security forces so as to force the government to stop its military campaign against the TTP's violence.

 

[wtf]

How is the Taliban carrying out a suicide attack in any way related to my argument on fighting Indian occupation in disputed Kashmir?

What are the Taliban fighting for? An imposition of their barbaric ideology on all of Pakistan.

Was the purpose behind this attack to 'fight Pakistani occupation of Azad Kashmir'?

Was it to somehow force the GoP to accept the UNSC resolutions calling for self-determination?

It was none of the above - the attack was a continuation of the TTP's efforts to carry out terrorist attacks in Pakistan against both civilians and the security forces so as to force the government to stop its military campaign against the TTP's violence.

TTP and Kashmir are not related. I was not trying to say they are. I am trying to understand your differentiation between a freedom-fighter and a terrorist. Rather than a hypothetical case I could make up, this one seemed an apt opportunity to understand what terrorism was. This attack was in a "disputed" territory and aimed exclusively against the Army.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...last-kills-two-soldiers-in-muzaffarabad-ha-03

Are you saying that terrorism is one of intent and not of the methods/tactics used ? If this guy attacked civilians and claimed that he did it for Taliban, he is a terrorist. But if he claims he did it for UNSC resolutions, he is a freedom fighter ?

 

[notsuperstitious]

How is the Taliban carrying out a suicide attack in any way related to my argument on fighting Indian occupation in disputed Kashmir?

What are the Taliban fighting for? An imposition of their barbaric ideology on all of Pakistan.

Was the purpose behind this attack to 'fight Pakistani occupation of Azad Kashmir'?

Was it to somehow force the GoP to accept the UNSC resolutions calling for self-determination?

It was none of the above - the attack was a continuation of the TTP's efforts to carry out terrorist attacks in Pakistan against both civilians and the security forces so as to force the government to stop its military campaign against the TTP's violence.

What is the Lashkar E Taiba fighting for? An imposition of their barbaric ideology on all of South Asia (DAWN.COM | World | Who are the Lashkar-e-Tayiba?)

 

[wtf]

What is the Lashkar E Taiba fighting for? An imposition of their barbaric ideology on all of South Asia (DAWN.COM | World | Who are the Lashkar-e-Tayiba?)

Probably we are diverting this thread. My post in retrospect seems slightly off-topic. Let's drop LeT out of this thread and call TTP what they are - terrorists.

 

[sergente rehan]

Terrorists and freedom fighters are 2 diffrent things.

If someone take over your city, start giving orders, kill your family members and other people, rape your womens, oppress the citizens using brutal force and denies every basic human rights; this is called terrorism(what india is doing in Kashmire from past 50+ years) So what will you do then? stay still and leave your agressors doing what ever they want..or trying to react against this oppression and fight for your freedom? If yes (the most logical thing) then you will call your self a terrorist or a person who's fighting for his freedom?

Regarding Raw issue and it's involment in Pakistan...we know it very well that we are enemies, it's perfectly normal that india will do what ever it can to destabilize Pakistan especially during these hard time for Pakistan to fully take advantage of every single moment to weaken it further. The only thing that we can aspect that how much India will push it self to the bottom using these dirty methods?

indians always act like angels but we know they aren't according to indians they never tried to harm Pakistan in the past nor they will do it in the future...because they are the world biggest (fake)democracy so backing terrorists is not a part of their doctrine (but a part of their foriegn policy), for this all their consulates on Pak-Afghan border are widley working to improve poor afghans lifes by giving them employment! how sweet...but the only thing that they missed is you can't improve life standards of those afghans by giving them some bucks, arms and using them in some terrorist activities against Pakistan!

The only thing they must remind is; Time never remains the same for everyone...now days maybe there are difficult times for Pakistan but in the future is coming up also indian turn(you reap what you sow)! don't forget that also in India there are several conspiracies and diffrent struggles of Secession at the moment....but who knows the future!

 

[Mujahid]

It must not be forgotten that news was reported in the media that TTP had threatened LeT when they warned TTP to stop carrying attacks on Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This attack was in a "disputed" territory and aimed exclusively against the Army.
DAWN.COM | Provinces | Baitullah?s suicide foray into AJK

Correct, but the attack itself was an extension of the TTP's violent campaign against the State in general to impose its ideology and system through violence and fear, rather than through the non-violent political system

Are you saying that terrorism is one of intent and not of the methods/tactics used ? If this guy attacked civilians and claimed that he did it for Taliban, he is a terrorist. But if he claims he did it for UNSC resolutions, he is a freedom fighter ?

That is a Strawman, and I believe Kasrkin corrected you on that in the other thread as well. Killing civilians deliberately is not justifiable in any case, whether it is the IA or the Freedom fighters, the Palestinians or the IDF.

The distinction I am drawing is one of working within the legal parameters of a State, when the people and the territory have been made a part of the state through a representative process, or have affirmed remaining part of the territory through some such process, even if the original annexation was forceful.

The former would be Baluchistan, East Pakistan, the East Indian States, Punjab etc.

The latter would be Palestine, Kashmir etc.

Now I do think that in Kashmir, Palestine, Chechnya etc. the time for struggling against occupation through violence is over, for various reasons. Violence has become counterproductive, and may even result in alienating the people under occupation. But that does not mean that the principle behind struggling, violently or otherwise, against occupation is invalid.

I believe the argument (which we can continue on the relevant thread) started over my comments that the leadership and members of the LeT or other groups should not be punished by Pakistan for engaging in the violent freedom struggle in Kashmir - since that struggle was legitemate given the disputed status of Kashmir and the refusal of India to grant the Kashmiris the right to self determination as promised in the UNSC resolutions.

They should be punished if evidence comes to light of their involvement in the deliberate targeting of civilians, and any such subsequent actions (Mumbai attacks) or violations of Pakistani laws and policies.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What is the Lashkar E Taiba fighting for? An imposition of their barbaric ideology on all of South Asia (DAWN.COM | World | Who are the Lashkar-e-Tayiba?)

They may have an ideological agenda as well, but in Kashmir their primary goal is/was first fighting the Indian occupation - the ideological agenda comes afterward.

SIMI would probably fall in the category of the Taliban/AQ in India.

But anyway, back to topic as WTF suggested - there is an existing thread with this discussion.

 

[Bill Longley]

Injuns read this news link from your own slum land
India being asked to close down or prune its Consulate in Jalalabad .:. NewKerala - India 's Top Online Newspaper

India being asked to close down or prune its Consulate in Jalalabad

New Delhi, Jun 11 : The United States is asking India to 'close or prune down' its Consulate in Jalalabad in Afghanistan following allegations by Pakistan that it (Indian consulate) is 'creating trouble' in the border areas of NWFP and Balochistan, sources said here today.

is it not a small evedence of RAW involvement in Terrorism in Pakistan???????

I know its hard for you to digest the ****** reality of ur slum land but enjoy

 

[wtf]

Expanding war

Expanding war
Saturday, June 27, 2009

The first targeted suicide bombing has killed two soldiers in Muzaffarabad. Till now, Azad Kashmir had not been caught up in the bitter war between militants and the military being fought in Pakistan. The attack on an army vehicle has dangerous implications. The Kashmir area has a sizeable military presence, given its disputed status with India. The potential for attack is immense. Such a development could also bring extremist forces still based in Kashmir into the conflict and thus make it even more complicated than it already is. The expansion of the war is something Pakistan must avoid at all costs. The militants have indeed used similar tactics in the past, by bringing the bloodshed into cities and towns across the country. They may be planning a similar strategy in Kashmir. There is indeed also growing desperation in the militant camp, given the onslaught of the military. The visit by General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani to South Waziristan underlines the determination to tackle the militants. What is important at this point is to work towards ending the war as soon as possible. This of course is easier said than done. The killings in Muzaffarabad demonstrate once more that we are dealing with a ruthless enemy. The Taliban must be prevented from succeeding in this. There is a need also to build opinion in Kashmir against terrorism and by doing so possibly prevent that region too stumbling into a war that has already taken a heavy toll on almost everyone who lives in this part of the world.

 

[wtf]

This attack is bad for Pakistan and worse for India.

In the best case this attack would turn the armed separatists against TTP and then TTP would face the combined forces Army and the other groups.

But this seems pretty unlikely. It seems to me that this move is aimed at splitting the opinion in Pakistan just like the Mumbai attacks were. The NWFP/FATA movement will now be seen as linked to Kashmir issue which in turn will be projected as an "Islamic movement" rather than as one of geography. This essentially will force the hands of Pak Army and the Kashmiri groups to take sides. This would be a longer term effect though.

On the shorter term, it puts an anchor on the movement of Pakistani troops. They can no longer concentrate their forces on the West as easily and that would give Mehsud his 5 minutes to make his run.

It also hurts India in the sense that Pakistan troops cannot now leave Kashmir and so Indian forces cannot move out either.Tensions remain high, pushing the peace process even further out.

 

[Bill Longley]

Expanding war

Expanding war
Saturday, June 27, 2009

The first targeted suicide bombing has killed two soldiers in Muzaffarabad. Till now, Azad Kashmir had not been caught up in the bitter war between militants and the military being fought in Pakistan. The attack on an army vehicle has dangerous implications. The Kashmir area has a sizeable military presence, given its disputed status with India. The potential for attack is immense. Such a development could also bring extremist forces still based in Kashmir into the conflict and thus make it even more complicated than it already is. The expansion of the war is something Pakistan must avoid at all costs. The militants have indeed used similar tactics in the past, by bringing the bloodshed into cities and towns across the country. They may be planning a similar strategy in Kashmir. There is indeed also growing desperation in the militant camp, given the onslaught of the military. The visit by General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani to South Waziristan underlines the determination to tackle the militants. What is important at this point is to work towards ending the war as soon as possible. This of course is easier said than done. The killings in Muzaffarabad demonstrate once more that we are dealing with a ruthless enemy. The Taliban must be prevented from succeeding in this. There is a need also to build opinion in Kashmir against terrorism and by doing so possibly prevent that region too stumbling into a war that has already taken a heavy toll on almost everyone who lives in this part of the world.

thats what india wants
btw why indo pak forign ministers meeting coincided with attack

indians must behave because they are the only ppl sponcering terror in neighbor hood
iask any one in south asia out side india ppl will tell what ***** india stand for

 

[XYON]

I don't think so. Firstly, you have no evidence of Indian involvement. If at all there is, most of Pakistani members here support terrorism in 'disputed territories'. If Kashmir is disputed, Pakistani Kashmir is also disputed. And by your own definitions, India has full right to support the freedom fighters there & help them fulfill their dream of freedom. Who else will they look towards, to free them decades of oppression & state sponsored atrocities?

Yeah! I am really sick of all those daily Pro-India rallies in Azad Kashmir!! The Kashmiris really want to be one with their Hindu brothers!