Suicide attack near Kabul hotel kills eight

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

It was the ISI which cobbled together "tat pooch" (the Taliban) out of bits of the formerly U.S.-supported insurgency plus the graduates of Pakistani madrassas.

jithay di khothi uthay ai aa khlothi ...
Yup Pakistan not only faced sanctions but also hosted millions of afghan refugees . ISI had the right to utillize the leftover of US to persue its ajenda of not allowing any sort of Indian activity in Afghanistan.

Still, I think Afghanistan would have been better had the U.S. then sought partnership with Pakistan (no India required!) to build Afghanistan, rather than leave Afghanistan to be Pakistan's plaything.

But unfortunately this couldnt happen due to narrow sightedness

 

[Solomon2]

jithay di khothi uthay ai aa khlothi

I presume you don't expect me to respond to this.

ISI had the right to utillize the leftover of US to persue its ajenda of not allowing any sort of Indian activity in Afghanistan.

Who gave the ISI the right to deprive millions of Afghans the opportunity to pursue normal and useful lives under the pretext "of not allowing any sort of Indian activity in Afghanistan"? And what made it morally correct for the ISI to do so?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So I believe U.S. officials have greater credibility than Pakistani ones here, and thus consider U.S. claims valid.

That the US President and Secretary of State lied/misled to the world and their own citizens on the question of Iraqi WMD's says otherwise about their credibility.

That Gates just admitted that the US has had not intelligence on Osama Bin laden for years, while US officials insisted categorically during that time that he was in Pakistan (i.e lying) says otherwise about their credibility.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-foreign-affairs/41033-us-duplicity-lies.html

So no, there is absolutely no reason to believe a US establishment that has been caught lying with its pants down repeatedly.

Furthermore, I don't even believe the claims of GoP officials that they feel the Indians are involved are honest.

For the reasons mentioned above I don't see the US as being honest - in fact their lies stand clearly exposed.

The situation could be clarified by the U.S. publicizing its evidence. That would embarrass Pakistan, break up the remaining Pakistan-U.S. alliance, and probably destroy the civilian government. The U.S. doesn't want that. Does that mean, AM, that because proofs aren't presented these things didn't happen as described?

Yes - please clarify the 'situation' because what we have so far is clear evidence of the US lying on Iraq, lying on the location of OBL in Pakistan, and not any evidence supporting US claims about Pakistani involvement with the Taliban - not one shred of evidence supporting that claim in fact.

So yes, because not a single shred of evidence has been presented to show Pakistani involvement, in conjunction with the clear lies on Iraq and OBL's location, 'these things didn't happen as described'.

 

[Solomon2]

That the US President and Secretary of State lied/misled to the world and their own citizens on the question of Iraqi WMD's says otherwise about their credibility.

Different prez, and it may be more accurate to claim the world mis-led the U.S., since almost every intelligence service thought otherwise, and Saddam himself worked to create this impression.

That Gates just admitted that the US has had not intelligence on Osama Bin laden for years, while US officials insisted categorically during that time that he was in Pakistan (i.e lying) says otherwise about their credibility.

I do not accept this. Rather, the U.S. thinks OBL is in the Pak border area, it doesn't know where exactly, because it doesn't have any info that OBL has left the area.

there is absolutely no reason to believe a US establishment that has been caught lying with its pants down repeatedly.

I just read today's Dawn. I realize that this is what the columnists there think of their own country. It must be a relief to think of the U.S. the same way - but it's not honest to do so.

yes, because not a single shred of evidence has been presented to show Pakistani involvement, in conjunction with the clear lies on Iraq and OBL's location, 'these things didn't happen as described'.

If a tree falls down but there is no one in the forest to hear, does it make a sound?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Different prez, and it may be more accurate to claim the world mis-led the U.S., since almost every intelligence service thought otherwise, and Saddam himself worked to create this impression.

So the US intelligence and US government/establishment is full of liars or fools (more than likely a combination of both) - neither of which increases confidence in their credibility.

I do not accept this. Rather, the U.S. thinks OBL is in the Pak border area, it doesn't know where exactly, because it doesn't have any info that OBL has left the area.

Check the link I inserted in my post above to 'US duplicity and lies', Gates specifically stated one thing (no intelligence for years on OBL) while Jones said something slightly different (though in essence suggesting much the same that the US had no clue about OBL's location) and all this time US officials have been swearing up and down he is in Pakistan.

Again, points to no credibility.

I just read today's Dawn. I realize that this is what the columnists there think of their own country. It must be a relief to think of the U.S. the same way - but it's not honest to do so.

What Pakistani columnists think about their own country is irrelevant here - the facts mentioned clearly point to a pattern of US lying and deception.

If a tree falls down but there is no one in the forest to hear, does it make a sound?

I am still waiting to see evidence that the tree fell in the first place. No one has seen tiny pixies called Tinker Bell either.

By the way, your tree analogy if you want to stick with it) applies just as well to the argument that the Indians are supporting terrorist factions in Baluchistan and FATA.

Without evidence, you might as well claim 'Tinker Bell did it!'

 

[Solomon2]

So the US intelligence and US government/establishment is full of liars or fools (more than likely a combination of both) - neither of which increases confidence in their credibility.

You tar with a very wide brush, AM.

Check the link I inserted in my post above to 'US duplicity and lies', Gates specifically stated one thing (no intelligence for years on OBL) while Jones said something slightly different

You are quoting people out of context and thus changing the meaning of what they said.

What Pakistani columnists think about their own country is irrelevant here - the facts mentioned clearly point to a pattern of US lying and deception.

No, they were discussing the lying and deception of the Pakistani military.

I am still waiting to see evidence that the tree fell in the first place.

Maybe you need a new prescription for eyeglasses?

AM, do you have anything to add to the discussion between Mr. Cyanogen and I?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You tar with a very wide brush, AM.

They lied and went to war that has resulted in hundreds of thousands dying - they deserve it. And it is no more a 'wide brush' than that used against Pakistan.

You are quoting people out of context and thus changing the meaning of what they said.

You have the link to the thread, I am willing to see how the context changes how I interpreted 'we have had no intelligence on OBL for years'.

No, they were discussing the lying and deception of the Pakistani military.

Which is not the subject of this discussion - the credibility of the US establishment and therefore the credibility of its claims in the absence of any evidence whatsoever supporting those claims is the subject of discussion.

Maybe you need a new prescription for eyeglasses?

Will not change the fact that no tree has fallen ....

AM, do you have anything to add to the discussion between Mr. Cyanogen and I?

No more than that the US, after the obvious lying and deceit by the US establishment on the Iraq war and OBL location, has no credibility when it makes unsubstantiated claims.

Where is the evidence in support of your allegations Solomon2, or do you expect us to just believe 'officials' in a patently lying, duplicitous US establishment?

 

[Awesome]

As I wrote before, whether Pakistanis believe India is behind anything or not, whether Indian or Chinese weapons are used or not, Pakistan was never afflicted by Muslims bombing Muslims in mosques until a full generation of extremists had been trained in Pakistani madrassas. The decision to divert funds from education and development to nuclear weapons allowed Gulf-funded schools to step in and train extremists and now threatens the state itself. So wouldn't the proper cure for Pakistan's troubles be to root out the extremist madrassas and fund proper schooling?

Very nice, when we get bombed, oh Pakistanis are bombing themselves. When India gets bombed, Pakistanis are bombing them.

Your prayers are not what we need, show the same zeal and condemnation against India when proof after proof is shown. When a Pakistani is captured and fesses up, then that's evidence. When dozens of Indians are captured and confess to carrying out orders from India, then that's just Pakistanis coercing them to that confession.

 

[Solomon2]

When a Pakistani is captured and fesses up, then that's evidence. When dozens of Indians are captured and confess to carrying out orders from India, then that's just Pakistanis coercing them to that confession.

No one disputes that the Mumbai attackers were publicly filmed in the act and that one of them was captured. Nor do you dispute that he is a Pakistani.

As for the Indian "proofs" I've read of so far, I've only seen an account of ONE person, under total control of the PA, who claims to be an Indian carrying out terror attacks against Pakistan. So there's no double-standard because the proofs aren't similar.

The weapons stuff I discount entirely - the PA captured Chinese weapons too. In the photos posted last month, the Indian stuff looked new and unused, whereas some (not all) of the Chinese stuff had been used. But I don't think that condemns China, because the weapons market is international and the Chinese sell to any w/hard cash.

If there's some other proofs available, kindly link to them, please.

 

[toxic_pus]

If there's some other proofs available, kindly link to them, please.

Relax Solomon, there is none. For example, their media tried to pass off PKM machine guns as Indian made Vickers machine gun.



Then they tried to pass off potassium chloride packets as evidence.



Here is the company's website: Vaigai Group

A perfectly legitimate company with large exports.

Somewhere in between they tried to pass off uncircumcised penis of dead militants as evidence. (Not posting images for obvious reasons)

We are all waiting for the next farce.

 

[Ahmad]

I don't think so. The TTP specifically targets Pakistanis, but the Afghan Taliban target foreigners. This hotel catered mostly to foreigners.

If they wanted to kill Afghans, there are thousands of easier targets. Why not blow himself up in a street bazaar?

I dont think so, the TTP dont target pakistani civilians, they target the police and the army, they never attack the civilians directly. I they wanted to do so, there were alot of civilians around.

 

[Ahmad]

Develepero

Afghan Taliban claim not to target civilians? You seriously believe that? If PAkistanis' dont want the Taliban to rule them, why do you presume the Afghanis would want the same?

Btw about civilians being killed didnt' TTP claim the same as well? Hell even Al Qaeda said that they don't target civilians and that all these civilians bombings in markets is a CIA/ISI/RAW/MOSSAD conspiracy

If Pakistanis don't believe TTP claims about not targetting civilians, why should Afghanis believe the Taliban claims there?

logical comment.

 

[SMC]

I dont think so, the TTP dont target pakistani civilians, they target the police and the army.

Hmm. What were the market attacks in Lahore and Peshawar as well as numerous mosque bombings?

 

[SMC]

Relax Solomon, there is none.

You seem to know exactly what's happening in their world.

For example, their media tried to pass off PKM machine guns as Indian made Vickers machine gun.

I really hate saying this, but you need to use your brain and eyes here. The guns are not the same and have some differences. Additionally, that's not really the proof because it's not the government saying its the proof.
Then they tried to pass off potassium chloride packets as evidence.

Here is the company's website: Vaigai Group

A perfectly legitimate company with large exports.

Somewhere in between they tried to pass off uncircumcised penis of dead militants as evidence. (Not posting images for obvious reasons)

We are all waiting for the next farce.

No one is saying the company itself is involved. That's pretty much impossible. What is possible is the products of the company being used.

 

[Ahmad]

Hmm. What were the market attacks in Lahore and Peshawar as well as numerous mosque bombings?

They attacked the mosque which belonged to the army. they also denied the Meena Bazar attack.