Sudan tops 'failed states index'

[Bull]

Sudan and the Democratic Republic of Congo are the world's most vulnerable states, according to a new study. The report - compiled by the US Foreign Policy magazine and the US-based Fund for Peace think-tank - ranked nations according to their viability.

FAILED STATES 2006 - TOP 10
1. Sudan (3)*
2. DR Congo (2)*
3. Ivory Coast (1)*
4. Iraq (4)*
5. Zimbabwe (15)*
6. Chad (7)*
(Tie) Somalia(5)*
8. Haiti (10)*
9. Pakistan (34)*
10 Afghanistan (11)*
Position in 2005 report



Can everybody see where pakistan is...u guys need to do a hell a lot of work to get out of that position.Its fallen from 34 to 9 th,thats a SHAME.

 

[Bull]

Each nation was given an overall score based on the 12 criteria:

• mounting demographic pressures
• massive movement of refugees and internally displaced peoples
• legacy of vengeance - seeking group grievance
• chronic and sustained human flight
• uneven economic development along group lines
• sharp and/or severe economic decline
• criminalisation and delegitimisation of the state
• progressive deterioration of public services
• widespread violation of human rights
• security apparatus as "state within a state"
• rise of factionalised elites
• intervention of other states or external actors

 

[Thunder]

This is my friend a total propganda. I belive this report is coming from BBC. One of the most propgandaist news source. Pakistan has been making some real progass and it's showing this by being the 2nd fastest devloping country this year again.

 

[A.Rahman]

Can everybody see where pakistan is...u guys need to do a hell a lot of work to get out of that position.Its fallen from 34 to 9 th,thats a SHAME.

The contributing factors were Pakistan's inability to police the tribal areas near the Afghan border, the devastating earthquake last October in Kashmir and rising ethnic tensions, report said.

taken from the same report.

How fast do you think that India will fall if it gets hit by massive eatrhquake? can India patrol freely in kashmir? not even US can totally defeat alqida even with advanced b-2 and thermal imaging satellites, how can you expect small country Pakistan with limited resources to accomplish such task as wiping 100% of alqida ?

this report is an opinion not a scientific fact.

 

[SMC]

This comes from a no name group that nobody has ever heard of before. Alright, so lets get this rolling. Not only this list is not accurate, but also biased.

Fund for Peace
http://www.fundforpeace.org
The Mission of The Fund for Peace is to prevent war
& alleviate the conditions that cause war. LMAO


US Foreign Policy magazine
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/aboutfp/staff.php#26
Moisés Naím Editor in Chief
William J. Dobson Managing Editor -
David L. Bosco Senior Editor -
Christine Y. Chen Senior Editor -
Michael C. Boyer Associate Editor -
Kate Palmer Assistant Editor -
James G. Forsyth Assistant Editor -
Jaideep Singh Web Editor & Writer -
Kelly Peterson Assistant to the Editor -
Carolyn O'Hara Editorial Assistant -

Do I need to say anymore, especially when that person is the Web Editor and Writer?

It doesn't end there, anyone with half a brain should put Afghanistan twice above Pakistan.

10 - Afghanistan: A country whose federal government only controls Kabul, has a lot more problem than Pakistan and has 80% economy based on drugs is put below Pakistan.

17 - Sierra Leone: Has been in civil war for quite a while, and they can't do shit without UN peacekeepers. And it's number 17.

20 - Nepal: Should be in top 5. Do I need to state what happened in the last year or so in Nepal?


The term failed state 'failed state' means the government has no control in its own border and this is one of the reasons Pakistan is there. But Pakistan never planned to take total control the tribal area (they probably never heard about it on FOX News) and leave it self-controlled. Look at Afghanistan.. the government's power is only in Kabul and they put Afghanistan below Pakistan.

Another proof of bias is putting India at 93. A country that has a shit load of seperation movements, problems in Kashmir, Gujarat, Orissa, Naxalits and Maoist movements, Khalistan, Dalistan, human rights violation in Kashmir, 2000 muslims massacred, 1/4th or 1/3rd of all malnurished people in the world is at 93.

I do agree Pakistan has own problems, but this yet another report by another no name US think tank who have called Pakistan a failed state since it came into existance.

Just about a month ago or so, newsweek called Pakistan a great economic turn around. They can't even use Pakistans economy as an excuse. Its growing at a rapid pace.

Another reason they put is earthquake.. BS. Just cause of a natural disaster, you can't put a country on the failed state list. It's natural, you can't stop it. Even Pakistan rescue and rehabilitation was done very well. Most of the people complaining about the rescue and rebuilding phase and expecting too much from a government that is not rich at all. In that case, US with a much stronger ability to fight hurricanes, AND having prior warnings, failed to do much about Katrina. So US should be on the failed states list too.


So lets take on their main reasons listed on BBC:

Mounting Demographic Pressures:

WTF? India is to surpass China in population and is a lot more populated than Pakistan. Pakistan's population growth is pretty good considering how fast the muslim population is growing. Poverty rate was recently reduced from 31% to 25%. Literacy rate is low, yes, but government is running programs to bring it up. India's literacy rate of around 55% or so isn't impressive either.

massive movement of refugees and internally displaced peoples:

Like I said, an earthquake is natural and you don't know when its going to hit you so you can't blame the government. The area was quite populated so that created a problem. Obviously with such a huge scale disaster, internal displacement is inevitable to occur. During hurricane Katrina, god knows how many people were displaced. As for the Afghan refugees, government can't do much about this.

legacy of vengeance - seeking group grievance
Pakistan does have problems with militants, yes, but government is controlling them and driving them out of Pakistan. Moreover, the reason that they keep coming back is due to RAW's funded insurgency in Pakistan.

chronic and sustained human flight
Dude Pakistanis are going no where. The people leaving are immigrants and if you're going to judge Pakistan on that, then what about China, India, and arabs? The country that comes to my mind in this case is Mexico.

uneven economic development along group lines:

Do I need to state US's 12% poverty rate? It just can't be even everywhere. Some people are not willing to get an education and work.

sharp and/or severe economic decline:

I proved this statement wrong quite a few times on this forum now and I will not comment on it.

criminalisation and delegitimisation of the state:

Problem, yes, but also a problem in India. But its only going down.

widespread violation of human rights:

I just wonder what category does Kashmir, Abu Gharaib, Guantanamo Bay, and various other US torture camps go under that the media doesn't know about. The things I listed above are under government command so that makes it worse, while Pakistan government has no such things going on in Pakistan.

security apparatus as "state within a state"

Please tell me what state exists within Pakistan.

rise of factionalised elites:

Yeah, so when government does something about sardars and nawabs, politicians complain. But anyways, government has been getting rid of sardars and nawabs, not letting benazir and nawaz sharif (Corrupt prime ministers) in, and this is what they can talk about.

intervention of other states or external actors
Except India, which has been doing it since day one, please tell me what other country is doing this.

Now this is the funny part. Look at all the countries below Pakistan to see how flawed and biased this list is:

10 Afghanistan 7.9 9.6 9.1 7 8 7.5 8.3 8 8.2 8.2 8 10 99.8
11 Guinea 7.5 7.2 8.1 8.4 8 8 9.1 9 8.1 8.1 9 8.5 99
12 Liberia 8 9.3 7 7.1 8.6 8.9 7.8 9 7.2 7.3 8.8 10 99
13 Central African Republic 9 7.7 8.8 5.5 8.5 8.1 9 8 7.5 8.9 8 8.5 97.5
14 North Korea 8 6 7.2 5 9 9.5 9.8 9.5 9.5 8.3 8 7.5 97.3
15 Burundi 9 9.1 7 6.7 8.8 7.8 7.2 8.5 7.5 7.3 7.8 10 96.7
16 Yemen 7.8 6.7 7 8.2 9 7.8 8.8 8.2 7.2 9 9.4 7.5 96.6
17 Sierra Leone 8.5 7.9 7.1 8.9 8.7 9 8 8 7 7 7.7 8.8 96.6
18 Burma/Myanmar 8.9 8.8 9 6 9 7.1 9.2 8.2 9.8 9 8 3.5 96.5
19 Bangladesh 9 5.8 9.5 8.5 9 7 9 7.5 7.8 8.3 8.9 6 96.3
20 Nepal 8.5 4.8 9.2 6 9.2 8.5 9.2 6.2 9.1 9 9 6.7 95.4
21 Uganda 8 9.2 7.8 5.7 8.4 7.5 8 8 8 8.5 7.9 7.5 94.5
22 Nigeria 8 5.9 9.1 8.5 9 5.4 9 8.3 7.1 9.2 9 5.9 94.4
23 Uzbekistan 7.7 5.8 7.5 7.5 8.1 7 9.3 7 9.3 9.1 9.1 7 94.4
24 Rwanda 9.5 7 9 8.2 7.2 8 8.7 6.9 7.7 5 8.9 6.8 92.9
25 Sri Lanka 8 8.2 9.1 6.7 8 5.7 8.6 7 7.2 8.5 8.9 6.5 92.4
26 Ethiopia 9 7.6 7 7.5 8.5 8 7.6 6.2 8 7.5 8.7 6.3 91.9
27 Colombia 7 9.1 7.4 8.5 8.5 3.2 8.7 6.5 7.6 9 9.2 7.1 91.8
28 Kyrgyzstan 8 6.6 7 7.5 8 7.5 8.3 7.3 7.9 8.3 7.9 6 90.3
29 Malawi 9 6 6 7 8.8 8.8 8 9 8 5.5 6.7 7 89.8
30 Burkina Faso 9 5.9 6.5 6.6 8.8 8.2 7.8 8.4 6.5 7.6 7.7 6.7 89.7
31 Egypt 8 6 8.5 6 8 7 9 7.3 8 6.5 7.7 7.5 89.5
32 Indonesia 7.5 8.2 6.3 8.3 8 6.8 6.7 7.2 7.5 7.5 7.9 7.3 89.2
33 Syria 7 7.1 8 6.8 8.9 6.5 9 5.5 9 7.5 7.1 6.2 88.6
34 Kenya 9 7.1 6.7 8 8 6.8 7.3 7.2 6.9 7 7.6 7 88.6
35 Bosnia and Herzegovina 6.5 8.5 8.6 6 7.3 6.2 8.1 5.8 5.3 7.5 8.7 10 88.5
36 Cameroon 6.5 6.8 6.5 8 8.7 6 8.5 8 7.2 7.6 7.9 6.7 88.4
37 Angola 8 8.5 6.3 5 9 4.9 8.8 7.6 7.8 6.8 8 7.6 88.3
38 Togo 7 5.8 6 6.5 7.5 8 8.7 8.1 8.1 8.1 7.8 6.7 88.3
39 Bhutan 6 8.1 7 6.7 9 8 8.4 6 8.6 5 8.4 6.7 87.9
40 Laos 8 5.9 6.3 6.6 5.9 6.5 7.9 8 8.2 9 8.9 6.7 87.9

Now yet another problem with this report is that its written based on articles. BASED ON ARTICLES. In today's world, where we have an extreme amount of media propaganda and bias esp. against countries like Pakistan, these guys use articles to make up this report. Now lets say that they used 500 articles about Pakistan. Now at least 300 of them would've been either biased, propaganda article, don't state the truth or state the truth but don't report the whole story. In today's world, nobody except the Pakistani media reports all the good things happening in Pakistan and the fact is that the good things happening easily outweigh the bad things happening big time in Pakistan.

Do I need to say anything more about the credibility of this report and this so-called US think tank? You decide.

 

[SMC]

You're right, its more of an opinion than anything else. Pakistan has been called a failed state since it came into existance. The government and public of Pakistan should discard such reports and look towards Pakistan's future.

 

[Bull]

All the countries are ranked on various aspects and u can see where pakistan fairs badly.

My pakistani friends might not be able to accept the fact that many african countries are ranked better than Pakistan.

But then they have done a very comprehensive study,thats what it looks like.

Why is that people just blame and go in for denial when evidence is thrown at you one after another thats there are things rotten in pakistan,why is that no one cares to discuss how to get away with it other than the usual"its RAW" cries.

Whyis that people even looking at the sources blames BBC for the report and just to add to their point says its the most propogantists sites, when it wasnt BBC who publshed the article.

Its an opinion and not a scientific study..??? on what basis do you say that?when the report clearly shows detailed study or effort put in.

At the same time no has got even one counter point to what was the main reason for pakistan dropping down, unrest in border areas, delayed justice and sectarian mass killings.

 

[sigatoka]

All the countries are ranked on various aspects and u can see where pakistan fairs badly.

My pakistani friends might not be able to accept the fact that many african countries are ranked better than Pakistan.

The fact that many African countries are ranked higher tells much more about the report than it does about Pakistan and African countries. Every problem that afflicts Pakistan does so also to India and yet India is not on the list. This is an extremely biased report.

There are only two factors a nation should be judged on. GDP growth per capita and GDP per capita. Everything else while theoritically useful is subject to so much bias and value judgements that it ends up as a load of shi*t.

 

[Bull]

The fact that many African countries are ranked higher tells much more about the report than it does about Pakistan and African countries. Every problem that afflicts Pakistan does so also to India and yet India is not on the list. This is an extremely biased report.

There are only two factors a nation should be judged on. GDP growth per capita and GDP per capita. Everything else while theoritically useful is subject to so much bias and value judgements that it ends up as a load of shi*t.

GDP per capita.. its just an average never tells you the whole story.

"Statisitcs is like a miniskirt reveals a lot but hides the most crucial part"

What ever affects Pakistan also affects India... r u sure.

Our media is ferociously liberal.
Our legal system is a thousand times better than the one in your land.
We have strong democratic institutions like EC,lok ayukta,NHC etc etc.
We have the right to choose who rules us every five years..

There are a lot of differences

 

[Munir]

Before I saw the list I was 100% sure that it was atleast one Indian in the group. The Indians are notorious about the fact that they cannot stand Pakistan. And besides this how come US is not topping the list? It has ruined world markets, environment and is attacking nations to ruin them. It has been attacked in New York, it detained lots of people without taking notice of human rights. US based morons. So if we can understand the pathetic logic behind this group... I doubt that. Indeed BBC is filled with Indians just like Keymags. Long live LCA and Indian democracy... No one has a clue how failed the realy are...

 

[tahirkhely]

Any nation which can not do anything is certainly going to be developed one and one which has highest fear factor is a failed state.

 

[Bull]

Indeed BBC is filled with Indians just like Keymags. .

What has BBC got to do with this???

Can u take sometime to see who made the survey or study and how they reached an conclusion.

 

[Spring Onion]

Webby and all the mods this thread need to be deleted or the most biased posts should be deleted altogather

 

[Neo]

This comes from a no name group that nobody has ever heard of before. Alright, so lets get this rolling. Not only this list is not accurate, but also biased.

Fund for Peace
http://www.fundforpeace.org
The Mission of The Fund for Peace is to prevent war
& alleviate the conditions that cause war. LMAO


US Foreign Policy magazine
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/aboutfp/staff.php#26
Moisés Naím Editor in Chief
William J. Dobson Managing Editor -
David L. Bosco Senior Editor -
Christine Y. Chen Senior Editor -
Michael C. Boyer Associate Editor -
Kate Palmer Assistant Editor -
James G. Forsyth Assistant Editor -
Jaideep Singh Web Editor & Writer -
Kelly Peterson Assistant to the Editor -
Carolyn O'Hara Editorial Assistant -

Do I need to say anymore, especially when that person is the Web Editor and Writer?

It doesn't end there, anyone with half a brain should put Afghanistan twice above Pakistan.

17 - Sierra Leone: Has been in civil war for quite a while, and they can't do shit without UN peacekeepers. And it's number 17.

20 - Nepal: Should be in top 5. Do I need to state what happened in the last year or so in Nepal?

The term failed state 'failed state' means the government has no control in its own border and this is one of the reasons Pakistan is there. But Pakistan never planned to take total control the tribal area (they probably never heard about it on FOX News) and leave it self-controlled. Look at Afghanistan.. the government's power is only in Kabul and they put Afghanistan below Pakistan.

Another proof of bias is putting India at 93. A country that has a shit load of seperation movements, problems in Kashmir, Gujarat, Orissa, Naxalits and Maoist movements, Khalistan, Dalistan, human rights violation in Kashmir, 2000 muslims massacred, 1/4th or 1/3rd of all malnurished people in the world is at 93.

I do agree Pakistan has own problems, but this yet another report by another no name US think tank who have called Pakistan a failed state since it came into existance.

Just about a month ago or so, newsweek called Pakistan a great economic turn around. They can't even use Pakistans economy as an excuse. Its growing at a rapid pace.

Another reason they put is earthquake.. BS. Just cause of a natural disaster, you can't put a country on the failed state list. It's natural, you can't stop it. Even Pakistan rescue and rehabilitation was done very well. Most of the people complaining about the rescue and rebuilding phase and expecting too much from a government that is not rich at all. In that case, US with a much stronger ability to fight hurricanes, AND having prior warnings, failed to do much about Katrina. So US should be on the failed states list too.


So lets take on their main reasons listed on BBC:

Mounting Demographic Pressures:

WTF? India is to surpass China in population and is a lot more populated than Pakistan. Pakistan's population growth is pretty good considering how fast the muslim population is growing. Poverty rate was recently reduced from 31% to 25%. Literacy rate is low, yes, but government is running programs to bring it up. India's literacy rate of around 55% or so isn't impressive either.

massive movement of refugees and internally displaced peoples:

Like I said, an earthquake is natural and you don't know when its going to hit you so you can't blame the government. The area was quite populated so that created a problem. Obviously with such a huge scale disaster, internal displacement is inevitable to occur. During hurricane Katrina, god knows how many people were displaced. As for the Afghan refugees, government can't do much about this.

legacy of vengeance - seeking group grievance
Pakistan does have problems with militants, yes, but government is controlling them and driving them out of Pakistan. Moreover, the reason that they keep coming back is due to RAW's funded insurgency in Pakistan.

chronic and sustained human flight
Dude Pakistanis are going no where. The people leaving are immigrants and if you're going to judge Pakistan on that, then what about China, India, and arabs? The country that comes to my mind in this case is Mexico.

uneven economic development along group lines:

Do I need to state US's 12% poverty rate? It just can't be even everywhere. Some people are not willing to get an education and work.

sharp and/or severe economic decline:

I proved this statement wrong quite a few times on this forum now and I will not comment on it.

criminalisation and delegitimisation of the state:

Problem, yes, but also a problem in India. But its only going down.

widespread violation of human rights:

I just wonder what category does Kashmir, Abu Gharaib, Guantanamo Bay, and various other US torture camps go under that the media doesn't know about. The things I listed above are under government command so that makes it worse, while Pakistan government has no such things going on in Pakistan.

security apparatus as "state within a state"

Please tell me what state exists within Pakistan.

rise of factionalised elites:

Yeah, so when government does something about sardars and nawabs, politicians complain. But anyways, government has been getting rid of sardars and nawabs, not letting benazir and nawaz sharif (Corrupt prime ministers) in, and this is what they can talk about.

intervention of other states or external actors
Except India, which has been doing it since day one, please tell me what other country is doing this.

Now this is the funny part. Look at all the countries below Pakistan to see how flawed and biased this list is:

10 Afghanistan 7.9 9.6 9.1 7 8 7.5 8.3 8 8.2 8.2 8 10 99.8
11 Guinea 7.5 7.2 8.1 8.4 8 8 9.1 9 8.1 8.1 9 8.5 99
12 Liberia 8 9.3 7 7.1 8.6 8.9 7.8 9 7.2 7.3 8.8 10 99
13 Central African Republic 9 7.7 8.8 5.5 8.5 8.1 9 8 7.5 8.9 8 8.5 97.5
14 North Korea 8 6 7.2 5 9 9.5 9.8 9.5 9.5 8.3 8 7.5 97.3
15 Burundi 9 9.1 7 6.7 8.8 7.8 7.2 8.5 7.5 7.3 7.8 10 96.7
16 Yemen 7.8 6.7 7 8.2 9 7.8 8.8 8.2 7.2 9 9.4 7.5 96.6
17 Sierra Leone 8.5 7.9 7.1 8.9 8.7 9 8 8 7 7 7.7 8.8 96.6
18 Burma/Myanmar 8.9 8.8 9 6 9 7.1 9.2 8.2 9.8 9 8 3.5 96.5
19 Bangladesh 9 5.8 9.5 8.5 9 7 9 7.5 7.8 8.3 8.9 6 96.3
20 Nepal 8.5 4.8 9.2 6 9.2 8.5 9.2 6.2 9.1 9 9 6.7 95.4
21 Uganda 8 9.2 7.8 5.7 8.4 7.5 8 8 8 8.5 7.9 7.5 94.5
22 Nigeria 8 5.9 9.1 8.5 9 5.4 9 8.3 7.1 9.2 9 5.9 94.4
23 Uzbekistan 7.7 5.8 7.5 7.5 8.1 7 9.3 7 9.3 9.1 9.1 7 94.4
24 Rwanda 9.5 7 9 8.2 7.2 8 8.7 6.9 7.7 5 8.9 6.8 92.9
25 Sri Lanka 8 8.2 9.1 6.7 8 5.7 8.6 7 7.2 8.5 8.9 6.5 92.4
26 Ethiopia 9 7.6 7 7.5 8.5 8 7.6 6.2 8 7.5 8.7 6.3 91.9
27 Colombia 7 9.1 7.4 8.5 8.5 3.2 8.7 6.5 7.6 9 9.2 7.1 91.8
28 Kyrgyzstan 8 6.6 7 7.5 8 7.5 8.3 7.3 7.9 8.3 7.9 6 90.3
29 Malawi 9 6 6 7 8.8 8.8 8 9 8 5.5 6.7 7 89.8
30 Burkina Faso 9 5.9 6.5 6.6 8.8 8.2 7.8 8.4 6.5 7.6 7.7 6.7 89.7
31 Egypt 8 6 8.5 6 8 7 9 7.3 8 6.5 7.7 7.5 89.5
32 Indonesia 7.5 8.2 6.3 8.3 8 6.8 6.7 7.2 7.5 7.5 7.9 7.3 89.2
33 Syria 7 7.1 8 6.8 8.9 6.5 9 5.5 9 7.5 7.1 6.2 88.6
34 Kenya 9 7.1 6.7 8 8 6.8 7.3 7.2 6.9 7 7.6 7 88.6
35 Bosnia and Herzegovina 6.5 8.5 8.6 6 7.3 6.2 8.1 5.8 5.3 7.5 8.7 10 88.5
36 Cameroon 6.5 6.8 6.5 8 8.7 6 8.5 8 7.2 7.6 7.9 6.7 88.4
37 Angola 8 8.5 6.3 5 9 4.9 8.8 7.6 7.8 6.8 8 7.6 88.3
38 Togo 7 5.8 6 6.5 7.5 8 8.7 8.1 8.1 8.1 7.8 6.7 88.3
39 Bhutan 6 8.1 7 6.7 9 8 8.4 6 8.6 5 8.4 6.7 87.9
40 Laos 8 5.9 6.3 6.6 5.9 6.5 7.9 8 8.2 9 8.9 6.7 87.9

Do I need to say anything more about the credibility of this report and this so-called US think tank? You decide.

Great reply Ahsan! :thumbsup:
Allow me to post it at WAB, there are altleast 4 threads about this very same topic.
Indians haveing a wet daydream.

 

[RAPTOR]

Delete this thread!