Sub-Prime fiasco Pakistan Cannot be attacked anymore

[MastanKhan]

Good folks,

This discussion from the previous thread must be stopped over here right now. Pakistan will not be attacked and cannot be attacked. The sub-prime home loan crisis in the u s of a and the fear of a coming reccession has taken the attention away from pakistan. This is why I am creating a new thread. I am not saying that the pressure will lessen on pakistan---but pakistan will get some breathing room---america will work harder and give some more support to pakistan now that Benazir is gone---Aitzaz Ahsan is trying to sell himself to the u s . A lot of power play, seat selection and under the table dealings going on.

Any attack upon pakistan---and pakistan only needs to retaliate by targetting a couple of oil tankers in the narrow straits of Hormuz and sink them. Block the straits. That will stop the movement of oil flow to the world---a true doomsday scenario---all the world economies will crash hearing that news that same day. Yes they will crash within 24 hours. The western world's economy is positioned on a razors edge since the sub-prime home loan scandal has hit the stock market. They will be slaughtered like wild pigs being chased by starving peasants.

The west has left no room for itself to manovuer. Only and only a mad man or a fanatic will think of action against pakistan.

Pakistan cannot be taken out anymore---niether can iran be taken out. The sub-prime financial crisis has turned the tables on the U S and the western world. Both victims of their own exuberance---both being penalised for their own excesses.

In the end, Allah is The great equalizer.

 

[solid snake]

The US is not looking for a new war for at least another decade. And war is a business in this country - a business that's been doing great since 2001. Now the huge borrowing from China and the home crises is threatening to send the entire world economy into a recession. So the US won't be attacking anyone, not even Iran anytime soon.

The US military is beleagured and stretched thin already, and a new war with a nuclear armed nation which has a majority of moderates anyway is in nobodys favor. Moronic comments by Barack Obama are being made just to score points over Hillary. Barack has seen a dent in his presidential campaign, and no other Presidential frontrunner is a war monger. If McCain becomes the next President, we hit the jackpot since he likes Pakistan and has pledged to work with Musharraf.

So any talk of Pakistan being attacked is baseless. Let's not forget America is supplying us with F-16s, advanced missiles and other type of military support. How anyone can talk of us being attacked is beyond me.

The only scenario in which Pakistan will be attacked is if the government loses control of the nukes, which we all know is not possible.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Good folks,

This discussion from the previous thread must be stopped over here right now. Pakistan will not be attacked and cannot be attacked. The sub-prime home loan crisis in the u s of a and the fear of a coming reccession has taken the attention away from pakistan. This is why I am creating a new thread. I am not saying that the pressure will lessen on pakistan---but pakistan will get some breathing room---america will work harder and give some more support to pakistan now that Benazir is gone---Aitzaz Ahsan is trying to sell himself to the u s . A lot of power play, seat selection and under the table dealings going on.

Any attack upon pakistan---and pakistan only needs to retaliate by targetting a couple of oil tankers in the narrow straits of Hormuz and sink them. Block the straits. That will stop the movement of oil flow to the world---a true doomsday scenario---all the world economies will crash hearing that news that same day. Yes they will crash within 24 hours. The western world's economy is positioned on a razors edge since the sub-prime home loan scandal has hit the stock market. They will be slaughtered like wild pigs being chased by starving peasants.

The west has left no room for itself to manovuer. Only and only a mad man or a fanatic will think of action against pakistan.

Pakistan cannot be taken out anymore---niether can iran be taken out. The sub-prime financial crisis has turned the tables on the U S and the western world. Both victims of their own exuberance---both being penalised for their own excesses.

In the end, Allah is The great equalizer.

Mastan,

Indeed the idea of anyone attacking Pakistan in the current global scenario is more of kiteflying and self sustaining bravado or self pity, depending on one's inclination.

One issue that you may like to ponder over is that if Pakistan sinks a couple of oil tankers, then it will not be only the US affected, but also the Arabs nations, whose sustenance is oil based and they will surely not be too pleased. The world will also buck. China would be furious since oil is what is firing her industries and keeping China's pressure on the US as also speeding her race to challenge the US. Therefore, such an act will only alienate Pakistan and stop whatever aid or trade it has.

 

[mujahideen]

One issue that you may like to ponder over is that if Pakistan sinks a couple of oil tankers, then it will not be only the US affected, but also the Arabs nations, whose sustenance is oil based and they will surely not be too pleased. The world will also buck. China would be furious since oil is what is firing her industries and keeping China's pressure on the US as also speeding her race to challenge the US. Therefore, such an act will only alienate Pakistan and stop whatever aid or trade it has.

This is never going to happen. Pakistan is not that stupid, to basically hit itself with an axe.

 

[MastanKhan]

Salim,

Any strikes on pakistan is a doomsday scenario for pakistan. It would be the end of pakistan as it exists and as we know of it. All the investment will fly away. Once the strikes start, you never know when they end. At what stage would pakistani millitary says enough is enough---now we strike back. How are we going to get to that point---we won't know when the next wave is coming and what it would bring. Pakistan will not be considering of the arabias or the chinas at that moment. It would not even have the time to think about it. It would want to hurt the aggressor the best possible way that it knows of---ie cut the main artery at the earliest possible with whatever assets are available, because whatever assets are available now, will not be available later.

 

[mujahideen]

Salim,

Any strikes on pakistan is a doomsday scenario for pakistan. It would be the end of pakistan as it exists and as we know of it. All the investment will fly away. Once the strikes start, you never know when they end. At what stage would pakistani millitary says enough is enough---now we strike back. How are we going to get to that point---we won't know when the next wave is coming and what it would bring. Pakistan will not be considering of the arabias or the chinas at that moment. It would not even have the time to think about it. It would want to hurt the aggressor the best possible way that it knows of---ie cut the main artery at the earliest possible with whatever assets are available, because whatever assets are available now, will not be available later.

Come on man you are painting such a dark picture. First of all I doubt that any country is going to attack Pakistan in the near future. Our biggest enemy India, is in a peace process with us, and to be quite honest we want to live in peace with India too, and right now India is putting all its resources into the economy and both countries would want to avoid war at all costs. Another country which has a lot to do with the destabilization of Pakistan, but in my opinion really wants peace with us is Russia. Russia is our traditional enemy, but in my opinion if the government of Pakistan would just take a direction in the direction of the Russian they will be rushing to help us, and I personally think we ought to have a good relationship with Russia, because Russia has a history of standing by its friends and Pakistan could use friends like Russia. Now lets get to the U.S. Right no the U.S. has its hands tied up all over the world. Their economy is going down the drain and quite frankly the American people dont want another war. If the U.S. does attack Pakistan, I think the U.S. would be in a worse economic situation then it was during the Great Depression and with a global economy the whole world will suffer. Right now if a country like Pakistan is attacked it will have domino effect every where. The world at all costs wants to avoid a war.
Now lets get to the part about Pakistan not existing. Pakistan is no Afghanistan or Iraq, it has respect on the international stage. I say if any country wants to destroy Pakistan, I say let them come. We will defend Pakistan till the very last drop of our blood. It doesn't matter if we lack behind in military terms, we can take on any nation. The people of Pakistan have successfully defended Pakistan before and if it come to that we will do it again. Now some people might say I am getting emotional and you cant win wars with emotions. For the most part they are true, but it is this emotion which can bring the nation together. What we need right now is the type of emotion we had when Pakistan was being created or or when at all costs we build our Nuclear Weapons. The Pakistani people are not that shameless that they will let Pakistan go with out a fight. We have fought for Pakistan before and will do it again, and I know every Pakistani is looking to embrace death for the sake of Pakistan.

 

[Contrarian]

Really now Mastan. That was a useless post. No one's attacking Pakistan.

 

[solid snake]

Salim,

Any strikes on pakistan is a doomsday scenario for pakistan. It would be the end of pakistan as it exists and as we know of it. All the investment will fly away. Once the strikes start, you never know when they end. At what stage would pakistani millitary says enough is enough---now we strike back. How are we going to get to that point---we won't know when the next wave is coming and what it would bring. Pakistan will not be considering of the arabias or the chinas at that moment. It would not even have the time to think about it. It would want to hurt the aggressor the best possible way that it knows of---ie cut the main artery at the earliest possible with whatever assets are available, because whatever assets are available now, will not be available later.

I agree. Once Pakistan is attacked, it will not care about the Arabs or the Chinese or anyone. We will retaliate to cause maximum damage to all so that the ramifications of an attack on us are felt by everyone. It will cause pressure on the aggressors to end their hostile attempts to destroy Pakistan.

 

[fatman17]

MK,
for the un-educated, what is sub-prime rate? and what is the fiasco?

 

[MastanKhan]

Malay,

What can I say "useless post". No one is attacking pakistan---that is exactly what I am saying---you know why---because things have changed drastically in the last 30-60 days. There will be more gestures of peace coming our way---it is all that pakistan can do is to raise the stakes higher and higher for any retaliation and interference. Once the other party realizes that it is not the pakistan of 2001 and my welfare and welbeing depends with the welbeing of pakistan---once they realize that we are an integral part towards making a better and safer world, pakistan would recieve the support and backing that it had never recieved before.

G E capitol made india realize that in the 2002. India hasn't taken advantage of the situation, because it is still being ruled by the old school.

Mujahideen, this post was not directed to india but rather for u s consumption---you are putting a spin on it and have dragged it towards india. You also dragged russia into it for no reason. Kiddo---I am saying the same thing---that is---u s's hands are tied because of financial issues---.

Are you familiar with govt of pakistan's strike policy---Musharraf has stated it many a times---no holds barred---an all out response---immediately. How about govt of iran's response---they have said many a things but the U S analysts fear that the iranians will sink a couple of tankers and block the straits. Pakistan won't be doing anything different.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Mastan,

I have understood the line of thought of yours. Indeed, things will go totally skewed and most chaotic.

But then my first point is that there is NO REASON for anyone to attack Pakistan.

In the current global scenario, it would be most ridiculous to attack Pakistan. Any attack on Pakistan would be the best thing that could happen to the Taliban rogues and if the Taliban gains ascendancy, then it will the worst thing to happen to the world.

Therefore, if for nothing else, it will be for self interest that no nation in the world would contemplate attacking Pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

Fatman,

The sub-prime fiasco---I am sorry---I didnot realize that I need to explain the sub-prime loans.

These are home loans that have been given to people in the last 2 to 3 years. Basically, the loan is given to a person without a documented income---people who have a marginal credit history---they are not putting any cash towards the purchase price of the loan---initially the loan is written at a lower interest rate---then say after 2 months or 6 months or 1 year or 2 years or 3 years, the rate increases to the max cap rate----so roiginally the payment eg was $1500 / month at a rate of 4.9 % apr and after the transitionary period the rate went upto eg 9.9 % apr and the payment would jump to $3000 / month.

The person who bought the house could barely qualify for $1500 / month payment originally. They had bought the house to sell it after 1 or 2 years before the rate matured. What was happening was that since 2001, the home prices started going up sky high within months and people would buy and flip houses after 1 or 2 years and good money. Well it worked for good 4 to 5 years. By the end of 2006 market had peaked and there were too many houses on the market. In 2007. the market took its biggest dive because there were an outrageous number of houses for sale than there were buyers.

Investors from allover the world have invested into mortgage banking in the u s. Now all those people who had bought the houses to sell them for a profit, when they could not find a buyer, walked away from their loans and they will be walking away for another year and a half---there are blocks and blocks of empty housing schemes in some cities---construction work has slowed down by some 50% to 75%. Some places a 100 % stoppage of work has taken place---all the people related to construction industry have lost their jobs---when they lost their jobs--people who were dependant upon them also felt the pinch. So, now there are home losses due to people losing jobs as well.

I will give you one example---how easy it was to buy a home without a job and income if you had excellent credit---in june 2007 I had a customer---she wanted to finance a car---when I ran checked her credit---she had 7 open home loans and all were delinquent---I asked her what is happening---swhe stated---she owned her home---somebody told her to buy and sell property---she got a loan against her home and bought 6 properties by putting small down payments on each---at that time when she was buying the house---on a scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is the best, her credit rating was best---she didnot have to prove income or job nd she got 6 loans---all those homes plus her own home that she got a loan against---she was going to lose them all---the bank was going to lose the money, I would lose the money everyone is going to suffer.

 

[MastanKhan]

Salim,

You are correct--nobody is going to attack pakistan----it was just that the scenario changed so drastically in the last 30 to 60 days and the world markets have started to suffer so much in the last few days---war is not a pretty picture at all. That is the gist of the post. That's all.

 

[fatman17]

Fatman,

The sub-prime fiasco---I am sorry---I didnot realize that I need to explain the sub-prime loans.

These are home loans that have been given to people in the last 2 to 3 years. Basically, the loan is given to a person without a documented income---people who have a marginal credit history---they are not putting any cash towards the purchase price of the loan---initially the loan is written at a lower interest rate---then say after 2 months or 6 months or 1 year or 2 years or 3 years, the rate increases to the max cap rate----so roiginally the payment eg was $1500 / month at a rate of 4.9 % apr and after the transitionary period the rate went upto eg 9.9 % apr and the payment would jump to $3000 / month.

The person who bought the house could barely qualify for $1500 / month payment originally. They had bought the house to sell it after 1 or 2 years before the rate matured. What was happening was that since 2001, the home prices started going up sky high within months and people would buy and flip houses after 1 or 2 years and good money. Well it worked for good 4 to 5 years. By the end of 2006 market had peaked and there were too many houses on the market. In 2007. the market took its biggest dive because there were an outrageous number of houses for sale than there were buyers.

Investors from allover the world have invested into mortgage banking in the u s. Now all those people who had bought the houses to sell them for a profit, when they could not find a buyer, walked away from their loans and they will be walking away for another year and a half---there are blocks and blocks of empty housing schemes in some cities---construction work has slowed down by some 50% to 75%. Some places a 100 % stoppage of work has taken place---all the people related to construction industry have lost their jobs---when they lost their jobs--people who were dependant upon them also felt the pinch. So, now there are home losses due to people losing jobs as well.

I will give you one example---how easy it was to buy a home without a job and income if you had excellent credit---in june 2007 I had a customer---she wanted to finance a car---when I ran checked her credit---she had 7 open home loans and all were delinquent---I asked her what is happening---swhe stated---she owned her home---somebody told her to buy and sell property---she got a loan against her home and bought 6 properties by putting small down payments on each---at that time when she was buying the house---on a scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is the best, her credit rating was best---she didnot have to prove income or job nd she got 6 loans---all those homes plus her own home that she got a loan against---she was going to lose them all---the bank was going to lose the money, I would lose the money everyone is going to suffer.

MK
thx for the explaination - pretty bad news! is the govt going to bail the people out?

 

[MOSABJA]

You are right that is extrememly infeasible but if some one is defending a country then HE HAS TO CONSIDER ALL OPTIONS.
the main problem is THE SILK ROUTE.AMERICA has come in Afghanistan to get the silk route from cent asia to afghan to balochistan and to occupy the resources of Balochistan.

THE PROBLEM ARISES WHEN AMERICANS,RAW,MOSSAD MI5 SUPPORT BLA and baloch separatism.

That problem is that IF PAKISTAN REMAINS SILENT THEN BY AND BY THEY WILL MAKE SITUATION SO BAD IN BALOCHISTAN THAT IT WILL SECEDE.

And If pakistan says that we are no more the FRONT LINE ALLY and the INTERVENTIONS FROM AFGHANISTAN IN BALOCHISTAN is not acceptable then it would be an open war.

SO WHAT CAN WE DO??????????????

1) Keep silent and let them create disturbance in our FUTURE and our JEWEL BALOCHISTAN.
2) If we stand up then its all out confrontation??????? WHAT DO WE DO!!!!


NATO has already said that all options are on the table
1)America can occupy Pakistan(KAGAN REPORT not mine)
2) NATO can go for BUNKER BUSTER NUKES .They have already said that we shall go for hot pursuit if Nukes are in danger of falling into wrong hands.
3If Pakistan is attacked it would not be a simple one there would be
*Internal disturbance by supplying BLA and SINDHI separatists with weapons
*Full sanctions and blockade.
*Full fledge military build up by international coaltion.
*Even Bunker buster nukes can be used to neutralize pakistan.

But this is extreme situation which will only come up when PAKISTAN GETS SICK OF INTERNAL TROUBLES CREATED BY NATO THEM SELVES.

pakistans options

1)dont tolerate in trouble in Balochistan
2)Fully support Taliban if things go out of control
3)Protect your nukes.

TRUST ALLAH