Su-35s vs. F-16s: Could Western Fighter Jets Help Ukraine Win Its Skies? | WSJ

[Beny Karachun]

Once the pilot is fully seated and the MIG-21 is powered up, the pilot in immediately endowed with Iron Man like capabilities. The pilot does not need radar. His vision is enhanced not just throughout the EM spectrum, but also in resolution, enabling him to literally see the F-22 beyond any radar capabilities. Trust me on this one. We got a MIG-21 in Area 52 and still have not figured it out despite decades of studying it.

Yes, this is due to the scientific superiority of the USSR, it was called "Project Super-Fishbed". Foolish Americans, they'll never reach the Soviet level of technological progress.

 

[ziaulislam]

Ukraine is trying to convince the West to provide it with F-16s, modern fighter jets capable of traveling twice the speed of sound. Here’s how the planes compare with Russia’s soviet-designed aircraft and what difference they could make in the war. Illustration: Adam Adada

Well Russians heya are now where to be seen so basically it will be only ukriane jets bombing Russians.

Either Putin doesn't has an air force or he is pussy

 

[gambit]

The only problem with that delusion sadly many still have till this day is that the vast majority of times when Russians jets have gone up against their US rivals they have been shot out of the sky.

I was invited here back in '09 and I have tried to explain -- apparently in vain -- as to why what happened as you noted. People kept trying to make excuses and the most popular is -- poor pilot training.

In a fight, you win not by fighting under your opponent's rules but by forcing him to fight under yours. And cheating is allowed.​

I learned that from a senior msgt when I was young and starting out training on the F-111D at Cannon AFB, NM.

The word 'rule' here is figurative so anything can be a 'rule'. If you have superior engine power, make a high speed fight. If you have superior turning radius, make it a lower altitude turning fight. If you have superior radar, make it a long range fight. And so on. No platform is perfect. Each has limits and advantages. Then know what are your opponent's limitations versus your advantages and do whatever you can to take the fight to those mismatches. This understanding go all the way back to the days of the Red Baron and there are plenty of analyses of the weaknesses of his Fokker triplane, and yet despite all those weaknesses the man was a terror in the sky and he would fly nothing else. US hardware and especially DACT focuses on how to give the pilot quick entry into the mismatches where he is superior and quick exit from the mismatches where he is inferior. The Soviets/Russians produced many great aerodynamicists and their airplanes demonstrated that, but airshow maneuvers rarely translates well into combat situations.

But if these 'vs' comparisons gives people comfort on why their countries had to buy Soviet/Russia hardware, so be it...We have no problems with people living in their comfort zones because they will die there as well.

 

[Abid123]

actually there was an exercise of 6 USAF F-15E against one single raptor... raptor toasted all of them.. despite the fact they were flown by highly experienced pilots of rank captain and above



Ukraine and Pakistan has long military ties.. with new US puppet gov in power and with almost regular flights by RAF C-17s picking up small arms, mortars, rocket artillery, ammunition etc from POF.. who knows what else is next.

Besides I wouldn't think much of NATO F-16s operators, sure they are well trained but PAF is on another level. I once met an American whose relative who served in USAF on deputation to Pakistan, in the 1980s he stated

"they (PAF) are better than most NATO airforces"

Not our war. We should sit back and enjoy it with popcorn like a Chinese member here on PDF said.

 

[gambit]

actually there was an exercise of 6 USAF F-15E against one single raptor... raptor toasted all of them.. despite the fact they were flown by highly experienced pilots of rank captain and above

Second and First Lts are usually in training status and they always fly as wingmen. Junior captains swaps between flight lead and wingman. Senior captains borderline majors are usually flight lead and often mission lead, meaning they are in command of a four-ship flight.

 

[Pakistan001]

actually there was an exercise of 6 USAF F-15E against one single raptor... raptor toasted all of them.. despite the fact they were flown by highly experienced pilots of rank captain and above



Ukraine and Pakistan has long military ties.. with new US puppet gov in power and with almost regular flights by RAF C-17s picking up small arms, mortars, rocket artillery, ammunition etc from POF.. who knows what else is next.

Besides I wouldn't think much of NATO F-16s operators, sure they are well trained but PAF is on another level. I once met an American whose relative who served in USAF on deputation to Pakistan, in the 1980s he stated

"they (PAF) are better than most NATO airforces"

In Pakistan establishment has major influence on foreign policy. It not matters which political govt is present. Pakistan had not participated in recent voting in u.n against russia which indicates this time Pakistan has refused to support west against russia. This is reality but here many are influenced by pti propaganda who themselves did nothing when india annexed kashmir and crushed freedom struggle brutally in kashmir after changing its status and now india is threatening to stop our water flowing from kashmir by breaching indus water treaty

 

[That Guy]

Pakistani "old F-16s" drove away Indian Su-30MKIs which are newer and supposed to be superior. Paper stats don't always translate to reality.

 

[PradoTLC]

Second and First Lts are usually in training status and they always fly as wingmen. Junior captains swaps between flight lead and wingman. Senior captains borderline majors are usually flight lead and often mission lead, meaning they are in command of a four-ship flight.

I was recallling from memory seeing a from documentary. Also PAF F7P we’re also pitted against the raptor in a exercises in UAE the F7 pilots had some thing like 3000+ hours and still no chance.

Point is even with highly experienced and able pilots the raptors tech is very advanced and it ensures victory most of the times …fifth gen tech is significantly ahead of 4th tech not like 2nd V 3rd gen like Vietnam where even the Mig-17 was able to down F-4 in the rights hands and tactics


In short fifth Gen. Tech the plane does matter not the pilot so much …

Jezz I hope people here didn’t arrive at the conclusion by watching top gun 2

Pakistani "old F-16s" drove away Indian Su-30MKIs which are newer and supposed to be superior. Paper stats don't always translate to reality.

Those F-16s were heavily upgraded , plus it was good missiles and tactics that prevailed

 

[That Guy]

I was recallling from memory seeing a from documentary. Also PAF F7P we’re also pitted against the raptor in a exercises in UAE the F7 pilots had some thing like 3000+ hours and still no chance.

Point is even with highly experienced and able pilots the raptors tech is very advanced and it ensures victory most of the times …fifth gen tech is significantly ahead of 4th tech not like 2nd V 3rd gen like Vietnam where even the Mig-17 was able to down F-4 in the rights hands and tactics


In short fifth Gen. Tech the plane does matter not the pilot so much …

Jezz I hope people here didn’t arrive at the conclusion by watching top gun 2




Those F-16s were heavy upgraded , plus it was good missiles and tactics that prevailed

My point still stands. Russia's advanced fighters are nowhere near as good as older upgraded US fighters. US missiles outrange Russian missiles in a majority of cases.

 

[nahtanbob]

The MIG-21 is a superior fighter. Trust me on this one.

Maybe in 1960

 

[Trailer23]

Inexperienced Ukrainian pilots in a F-16. Going up against experienced Su-35 pilots.

Seriously...?

Even the Omani Viper Drivers will make mince out of Ukrainians in F-16's. This isn't a joke you know.

 

[CLUMSY]

Inexperienced Ukrainian pilots in a F-16. Going up against experienced Su-35 pilots.

Seriously...?

Even the Omani Viper Drivers will make mince out of Ukrainians in F-16's. This isn't a joke you know.

Eh, i dont think itll be bad tbh. At the very least should be good enough to knock some su25 shitcans out of the sky. Also brings the UAF into another level when it comes to tech

 

[PradoTLC]

who themselves did nothing when india annexed kashmir and crushed freedom struggle brutally in kashmir after changing its status and now india is threatening to stop our water flowing

and what would Madam maryum have us do?

 

[PradoTLC]

Not our war. We should sit back and enjoy it with popcorn like a Chinese member here on PDF said.

true and I never said it's ours.. Ukraine and Russia have a very ugly history such as Stalin starving Ukrainians to death and forcing them to eat their own children, like wise Ukranians teamed up with Nazis in WW2 and so on.

Khan's policy was spot on.. Neutral. From a Geopolitical perspective the west will never be our friend no matter what we do to appease them, Russia on the other hand slowly progressing with normal relations with Pakistan. Russia's investment into Pakistan's basic industry is critical first step for us to move out of our dinosaur economy

Putin spent 3 hours with Khan discussing these issues .. on the first day of Russia's attack on Ukraine. People don't seem to understand the implication of this... ie Putin was will make concessions to us in their time of need. Unfortunately because our military is nothing more than a puppet of Pentagon such thinking is forbidden .

PS I call Pakistan military a puppet of US not lightly this is after many years of study and off hand knowledge of this "relationship"

think OBL was found in Pakistan and what did the US do to us?... not one single statement of condemnation etc but instead in the subsequent years US released $3.3B , F-16s, low level radars, gunships etc . US should have skinned us alive.. right?

but what really happed is a matter of public record.

Maybe in 1960

Mig-21 in the 1960s...

 

[Pakistan001]

and what would Madam maryum have us do?

they are already proven incapable but ik is no different than these traditional political leaders.