Study: Germans see Islam as a threat

[Chinese-Dragon]

If any other group of religious fanatics invaded a foreign land, kicked out the locals, colluded with colonial masters and claimed that land because their God had so ordained, they would be castigated. Yet Israel has managed to portray itself as the victim in all this.

After the WW of the early twentieth century, it was deemed the end of the colonial era, where the European colonial masters left their domains to the indigenous peoples. The ONLY exception is Israel which was reserved for people migrating into the new land. This migration -- colonization -- was facilitated, even orchestrated, by the British colonial rulers and, therefore, Israel is a direct symbol of European colonialism.

Are you kidding? You live in Australia, do you think the people that currently rule Australia are the "natives"? What about the 100 million Native Americans?

The Iraq war alone has caused over 1 million casualties, and that is not even counting the unrest in Africa, the Middle East, Russia, Latin America and all other parts of the world.

If you take away the religious factor when talking about Israel's crimes, what is left? In fact what they have done is relatively minor compared to any other violent conflict in the world.

If you look at it objectively, the only reason the Israel-Palestine conflict is relevant at all is because so many people (Westerners and Muslims) have vested interests in either side. On its own, there is nothing particularly significant about the Israel-Palestine conflict at all, especially compared to other violent conflicts which have casualties that are more significant by several orders of magnitude.

 

[Developereo]

Are you kidding? You live in Australia, do you think the people that currently rule Australia are the "natives"? What about the 100 million Native Americans?

The Iraq war alone has caused over 1 million casualties, and that is not even counting the unrest in Africa, the Middle East, Russia, Latin America and all other parts of the world.

If you take away the religious factor when talking about Israel's crimes, what is left? In fact what they have done is relatively minor compared to any other violent conflict in the world.

If you look at it objectively, the only reason the Israel-Palestine conflict is relevant at all is because so many people (Westerners and Muslims) have vested interests in either side. On its own, there is nothing particularly significant about the Israel-Palestine conflict at all, especially compared to other violent conflicts which have casualties that are more significant by several orders of magnitude.

You seem to have trouble understanding the concept of 'after WW'.
Come back when you have mastered that concept.

We know full well that many of the people supporting Israel don't give two figs about Jews or Israel. Israel is just a convenient cover for the own Islamophobic obsession. That is what I mean by media control. If Muslims dominated the global media, these exact same loudmouths would be championing the Palestinian cause and foaming against Israel. It's all about channeling people's latent hatred.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You seem to have trouble understanding the concept of 'after WW'.
Come back when you have mastered that concept.

And you seem to have trouble understanding simple sentences.

After the WW of the early twentieth century, it was deemed the end of the colonial era, where the European colonial masters left their domains to the indigenous peoples.

Yes, they sure left it to the "indigenous" peoples alright.

After the WW of the early twentieth century, it was deemed the end of the colonial era, where the European colonial masters left their domains to the indigenous peoples. The ONLY exception is Israel which was reserved for people migrating into the new land. This migration -- colonization -- was facilitated, even orchestrated, by the British colonial rulers and, therefore, Israel is a direct symbol of European colonialism.

Australia and America are OK for you though.

 

[Developereo]

And you seem to have trouble understanding simple sentences.

Yes, they sure left it to the "indigenous" peoples alright.

Australia and America are OK for you though.

Once again, 'after WW'.

The two world wars were seminal points in human history because they marked the end of the colonial era. Whatever other objectives the Germans may or may not have achieved, they did manage to shatter the global dominance of their European rivals.

A lot of countries were formed by military conquest throughout history, but after WW, especially WW2, there was a consensus in the West that the remaining colonial empires would be dismantled and the European powers would return home.

America was one of the biggest champions of this philosophy and they made an explicit exemption for Israel.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Once again, 'after WW'.

A lot of countries were formed by military conquest throughout history, but after WW, especially WW2, there was a consensus in the West that the remaining colonial empires would be dismantled and the European powers would return home.

America was one of the biggest champions of this philosophy and they made an explicit exemption for Israel.

Yeah sure, America was the biggest champion of handing back colonial empires to the indigenous peoples.

Biggest hypocrites maybe.

America was one of the biggest champions of this philosophy and they made an explicit exemption for Israel.

LOL, always Israel. I don't know why you and so many others choose to be so obsessed with Israel, even my home city alone has a bigger economy (and higher GDP per capita) than Israel.

What about the actual power in the Middle East, i.e. the USA?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Once again, 'after WW'.

The two world wars were seminal points in human history because they marked the end of the colonial era. Whatever other objectives the Germans may or may not have achieved, they did manage to shatter the global dominance of their European rivals.

A lot of countries were formed by military conquest throughout history, but after WW, especially WW2, there was a consensus in the West that the remaining colonial empires would be dismantled and the European powers would return home.

America was one of the biggest champions of this philosophy and they made an explicit exemption for Israel.

That is because israelis DO have a history.The jews actually lived in that area for thousands of yrs,Its not called judea for nothing.It was after the third jewish revolt under the roman emperors that the entire jewish population was rounded up and dispersed throughout the roman empire to prevent another revolt.So these people can't be called completely non native.Its a complicated situation,unlike colonialism where they never where there and then suddenly came.They were here for a long time,then they weren't for another long time and then they are back.******* mess.

 

[Developereo]

Yeah sure, America was the biggest champion of handing back colonial empires to the indigenous peoples.

America was, under President Woodrow Wilson, in particular.

Avalon Project - President Woodrow Wilson's Fourteen Points

(P.S. See points V and XII in particular).

Whether it was hypocritical, or drive by guilt, or whatever is a separate debate.

LOL, always Israel.

Because, as I explained earlier, Israel was THE exception to the post-WW rule of giving colonial land back to indigenous peoples.

If the Zionists had decided to set up camp in China, I am sure the Chinese wouldn't have forgotten either. Did China give up on Hong Kong? or Taiwan?

That is because israelis DO have a history.

Yet another person who doesn't know history.

The ancient Hebrews invaded Canaan, massacred the locals, and took over their land.
They were subsequently ejected by various groups, ultimately the Romans.
For almost two thousand years, that land was either barren or predominantly, almost exclusively, Arab.
Beginning in 1888, Jews started migrating back with the intention to recolonize the land.
Even in 1917, Jews numbered less than 7% and owned less than 7% land in Palestine.

 

[gambit]

Yeah sure, America was the biggest champion of handing back colonial empires to the indigenous peoples.

Biggest hypocrites maybe.

Yeah sure, America wanted the entire Indochina (Laos, Cambodia, and Viet Nam) be taken away from France and into UN trusteeship towards independence. China under Chiang Kai-shek agreed. China under Mao yoked Viet Nam under communism, which is near just as bad as colonialism.

 

[BDforever]

America was, under President Woodrow Wilson, in particular.

Avalon Project - President Woodrow Wilson's Fourteen Points

Whether it was hypocritical, or drive by guilt, or whatever is a separate debate.



Because, as I explained earlier, Israel was THE exception to the post-WW rule of giving colonial land back to indigenous peoples.



Yet another Indian who doesn't know history.

The ancient Hebrews invaded Canaan, massacred the locals, and took over their land.
They were subsequently ejected by various groups, ultimately the Romans.
For almost two thousand years, that land was either barren or predominantly, almost exclusively, Arab.
Beginning in 1888, Jews started migrating back with the intention to recolonize the land.
Even in 1917, Jews numbered less than 7% and owned less than 7% land in Palestine.

Note: Many Jews protested against Israel as well, saying that Israel does not have right to exists.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

America was, under President Woodrow Wilson, in particular.

Avalon Project - President Woodrow Wilson's Fourteen Points

(P.S. See points V and XII in particular).

Whether it was hypocritical, or drive by guilt, or whatever is a separate debate.



Because, as I explained earlier, Israel was THE exception to the post-WW rule of giving colonial land back to indigenous peoples.

If the Zionists had decided to set up camp in China, I am sure the Chinese wouldn't have forgotten either. Did China give up on Hong Kong? or Taiwan?



Yet another person who doesn't know history.

The ancient Hebrews invaded Canaan, massacred the locals, and took over their land.
They were subsequently ejected by various groups, ultimately the Romans.
For almost two thousand years, that land was either barren or predominantly, almost exclusively, Arab.
Beginning in 1888, Jews started migrating back with the intention to recolonize the land.
Even in 1917, Jews numbered less than 7% and owned less than 7% land in Palestine.

Does anyone know what canaan is?By your definition turkey is a land of colonizers,since this used to be centre of hellenic civilization.Then turks came along killed locals colonized lands.Migration of peoples happens.And this was thousands of years ago..we don't even know who canaan are.BTw for almost 2 thousand yrs it wasn't barren.Jews had several prosperous kingdoms in the area and it was called judeea,a province of rome later.Hundreds of thousands of jews were killed or enslved in the 3 revolts and it shows land certainly wasn't barren.

 

[Developereo]

Note: Many Jews protested against Israel as well, saying that Israel does not have right to exists.

And many still do.

This Israeli tendency to dismiss all criticism as anti-Semitism becomes even more ridiculous when they try to apply it to Jewish critics. These people are then labeled as self-hating Jews.

What really takes the cake, however, is that many Israeli intellectuals believe the European support for Israel is based on anti-Semitism. According to that logic, Israel was the Europeans' way to purge Europe of Jews.

Does anyone know what canaan is?By your definition turkey is a land of colonizers,since this used to be centre of hellenic civilization.Then turks came along killed locals colonized lands.Migration of peoples happens.And this was thousands of years ago..we don't even know who canaan are.BTw for almost 2 thousand yrs it wasn't barren.Jews had several prosperous kingdoms in the area and it was called judeea,a province of rome later.Hundreds of thousands of jews were killed or enslved in the 3 revolts and it shows land certainly wasn't barren.

Yes, as I wrote, conquest and colonialism was the norm in history. My reference to Canaan was to dispel any myth about Jews being indigenous to Israel.

The debate here is about the post-colonial era.

 

[muse]

It's all about channeling people's latent hatred.

So, it's all a conspiracy? The consumers of the media have a latent hatred against Muslims, and this hatred is global?? The actual behavior of Muslims has nothing to do with the creation of this latent hatred???

 

[Vinod2070]

The concept of the end of colonialism applies to the modern era.

Depends on who is looking.

If one goes back in time, then almost all conquests were "colonial", including most of the wars within the Indian subcontinent itself.

How far one wants to go again depends on who is looking.

Our perspective is that the people before Islamic invasions are indigenous or became indigenous.

Though I believe in naturalization (with the approval of the sons of the soil), I don't think any "Ashraf" who claimed to be a "separate nation"and talked of the TNT, as a Hindustani (and I don't mean just the current India here) or having any claims to our holy land.

They had the chance and they blew it.

It will be no different from Muslim immigrants to Europe/USA/Australia claiming to be a separate nation and demanding division of their countries.

After the WW of the early twentieth century, it was deemed the end of the colonial era, where the European colonial masters left their domains to the indigenous peoples. The ONLY exception is Israel which was reserved for people migrating into the new land. This migration -- colonization -- was facilitated, even orchestrated, by the British colonial rulers and, therefore, Israel is a direct symbol of European colonialism.

Let's not be prisoners of semantics but talk substance. We all have our own opinions of the history and how we choose to look at facts. The only common language can be one of universal rules and one that is based on the "Golden rule".

What was deemed and by whom and when doesn't matter, what matters is objective facts.

E.g. why is Central Asian Turkish occupation of Anatolia halal and good and a great Islamic victory while the Jews returning to their ancient homeland such a big calamity.

I never saw you asking the Central Asian Turks to be sent back to their pastures from the lands of ancient Greek civilization.

Drawing an artificial line at WW2 doesn't cut it.

You must know that even when they were away for thousands of years, they would remember Jerusalem every year at passover:

Next year in Jerusalem.

I am glad that they found their Punya bhoomi (holy land) back. It restored my faith in divine justice and humanity. I identify with their love for the land of their ancestors, even when they were snatched away from the land for thousands of years and strange aliens had occupied their holy land.

I am sure some day the Dharmic people will get back all their holy land and send the usurpers back t their natural habitat.

I don't know why the barbaric Arab treatment of Africans (that is still going on in many places and that resulted in hundreds of millions of lives being lost) gets a pass. Just because the Arabs/Muslims never got around to repenting for it, acknowledging it and abandoning it!

And mind you, I have the same contempt for European colonialism and slavery (and their gift), the Islamic colonialism and it's gift and the caste discrimination against Dalits in our own country.

Only thing is, some people have moved on. Some can never do that.

 

[Vinod2070]

Are you kidding? You live in Australia, do you think the people that currently rule Australia are the "natives"? What about the 100 million Native Americans?

The Iraq war alone has caused over 1 million casualties, and that is not even counting the unrest in Africa, the Middle East, Russia, Latin America and all other parts of the world.

If you take away the religious factor when talking about Israel's crimes, what is left? In fact what they have done is relatively minor compared to any other violent conflict in the world.

If you look at it objectively, the only reason the Israel-Palestine conflict is relevant at all is because so many people (Westerners and Muslims) have vested interests in either side. On its own, there is nothing particularly significant about the Israel-Palestine conflict at all, especially compared to other violent conflicts which have casualties that are more significant by several orders of magnitude.

The so called Israel discrimination of Palestinians is not a patch on what is still being done by Arabs against Africans in several countries.

Particularly Sudan and Morocco.

But they get a pass because the victims have no voice and no lobby.

 

[Vinod2070]

If the Zionists had decided to set up camp in China, I am sure the Chinese wouldn't have forgotten either. Did China give up on Hong Kong? or Taiwan?

I agree with this.

We have not forgotten either. Never will till justice is restored.

But why would a Pakistani worry so much about an Arab issue?