Islamic world is a much broader concept than Iran. While Iran has deep cultural roots with many admirable aspects and a significant regional player, it is its own entity and somewhat divisive to the region, perhaps due to its deep history and identity. I agree that most of the middle east shares deeper cultural ties with Europe compared to East Asia, connections with East Asia was mostly cut while deeper relations with Europe was fostered over the previous centuries. Such sentiment is understandable and expected. Israel is somewhat of an dilemma from a Chinese point of view. Chinese hold no adverse opinions of Jews (some admire their contributions to science and commerce) and sees Israel as a hub for technology cooperation on the other hand the existence of Israel caused much of the conflicts during the past few decades in the Middle East. It wants to stay as far away from such security matters as possible, certainly not participating in a war of Armageddon. If somehow the region manages to get along, it would be wonderful.
Both countries are currently too strained resource wise to worry about each other that much. I believe the best cooperation China and Russia can have is on the economic and industrial front, it will resolve some of Russia's constraints, including military ones. Once China has a more advanced industrial base, it would be able to supplement Russia's industrialisation, providing it security and a hedge against sanctions. This changes calculations for the West in the actions it will take on Russia.
This is just Arabs returning to what they were historically known to be good at doing (at least from a Chinese perspective), being brokers and brilliant businessmen. China, Korea, and Japan all have disagreements with each other, some aspects of deep historic resentment, and some territorial disputes. In a strange way, all three can functionally get along just fine, simply out of pragmatism, "Set aside dispute and pursue joint development" - Deng Xiaoping during tour of Japan. I think it is wise and harmonious to try to get along with as many nations as you can, though sometimes you have to defend your interests. It is admirable what pragmatic Arab nations are doing. Had China been truly hostile to other nations, it wouldn't have enjoyed the development it has today.
I think what you have mentioned is the power of civilisation and the positive influence it brings upon people. There is a notion in China that barbarians (sorry if some find that term offensive) can be civilised when exposed to civilisation, the force of barbarism can never truly succeed in the long term. The Manchus today are quite progressive and educated people, I have some in my extended family. For sure the influence of Arabic culture can be seen around the region, many cities/towns in South Spain hold Arab influenced names and architecture. In fact I am a big admirer or Arab architecture (especially the fractal patters), there is a certain timeless feel to it. It is clear Arabs inherited a very ancient and deep culture.
Isn't the entire European royal family Germanic in origin? Prince Charles also claims to be a descendent of Vlad the Impaler. Yes, most civilisation aspects of Russia is various pieces of European civilisation.
I agree, history can be a guide, relations had been running for thousands of years. Current political climate is not a hindrance for cooperation. China knows of many aspects of the West that is negative (from China's perspective) but it is mostly understood from an academic perspective, not much hate or emotion behind it. I don't think Russia can find itself to be truly European (unless it relocates or changes geographic boundaries), it will always be Russia, perhaps an Euro-Russia in the future but it has deep and structural distinguishing features. Just as China cannot be a "pure" nation as understood by Koreans and Japanese. If you think China is isolated (more isolated than the Arab world for sure) Korea and Japan (some mountainous parts of China are just as isolated) are even more isolated. Indeed geography is a big determinant towards civilizational development more importantly what geography means in a given era.
The US is not seen as an enemy in the traditional sense today by China either, just an milestone and competitor. Destroying the US is not part of any Chinese strategists' prescription. Many Chinese experts see the US as a relatively responsible superpower when compared to some and some potential ones, though there are still many nasty aspects. Rivalry and competition is necessary to prevent global stagnation. Great power competition is a sort of public good. From the Chinese perspective, becoming America is not a goal, surpassing it in various metrics is and ultimately rebuild the middle kingdom and transform it into a developed nation (plan is to do it by 2080). I think many in the US establishment is still in a cold war mentality when trying to confront China, they are trying to find an ideological struggle angle to this competition. Capitalism vs Communism, when in fact "communists" as the West understand it is not found in Beijing. Chinese don't care about others adopting any Chinese ideology, it is only for domestic consumption to rebuild China. Chinese leaders are more of nationalists trying to uphold Chinese civilization than anything else. Maybe there can be a clash of civilization angle? but it takes two hands to clap.
US is not seen as evil by Chinese just a competitor, many aspects of China's development was fostered by America. Even PLA hawks model some aspects of Chinese military on the US military, Chinese strategists study American history though their interpretation is different from the official American narrative. China had quite a lot of cooperation with Germany even during Japanese occupation of the North East/Manchukuo, it ended shortly after. The KMT and warlord armies modelled some of their armies on German/Prussian ones.
I think eventually that will become reality, right now the middle east is undergoing a process to reshape the borders drawn by European Imperial powers (UK, France) which is a bloody process.
No problem, I enjoy occasional long posts. Thanks, I am just a novice with a passion, you are the real expert here.
Iran is divisive (at least perceived by most to be so since 1979) due to being the "odd one out" while at the same time pursuing a state policy that evolves around the Wilayat al-Faqih ideology, often to its own detriment. It's also an non-Arab nation in a ocean of Arab nations in the region. Since the Islamic invasion 1400 years ago it has suffered from what I would call mild schizophrenia. Mostly among the current youth post Islamic revolution in 1979 (mostly anti-Islamists) as people had little clue about ancient history centuries ago let alone the fact that only a tiny minority were literate to being with everywhere in the world. Arabs are often blamed for all the indigenous ills in Iran despite having little if anything to do with it. It's a natural reaction to blame your own failures on others. Past Western imperialism or Mongol invasions (to a degree Ottoman presence too which lasted for 400 years in certain Arab regions and amounted to very little in terms of positive changes, almost nothing - if not an outright regression) are also used as an excuse by Arabs. it's a failed and destructive policy IMO from both parties. At the same time the Islamic era has lasted more than half of Iran's recorded history as an recorded entity. At the same time the same Arabs that are blamed for this invasion (ironically Persian occupation of ancient Semitic and Arab lands prior to that are not seen as an occupation by those same people) and our Semitic ancestors shaped the Persian empire on every front and basically made it possible to emerge in the first place due to our cultural, bureaucratic, government-based (copying previous Semitic empires, may I refer to the contemporary Babylonian Empire), linguistic (alphabet, lingua franca (Aramaic), architecture, clothing, Babylon becoming a capital (heartland of the Semitic Mesopotamia for millennia prior to that) etc. So obviously it is similar to Chinese-Japanese relations. There are deep ties between both. Even genetically. Which is what makes the current rivalry so moronic. In a perfect world China and Japan should be key allies if not maybe the closest allies. As well as the Korea.
There is also the geographic factor. For instance parts of the Arab world border Europe almost directly. Think parts of Northern Africa. Think parts of Levant and Northern Arabia. All very close geographically to for instance the cradle of civilization in Europe (Greece). Which is why the Roman Empire spanned areas from Northern Arabia to modern-day Northern Morocco.
There is also the Neolithic migrations from the current-day Arab world (Levant, Mesopotamia and Northern Arabia) starting some 12.000 years ago. The people who spread agriculture to Europe. Apparently 80% of all Europeans descend from those Neolithic settlers.
For instance Arabia was much more integrated with the Roman and Greek cultures (despite most of it being independent) than Eastern and Northern Europe that was outside of the Roman/Greek sphere of influence.
Not many people know it but there were periods in history, especially in Northern Arabia and Hijaz, where Greek was the second language. This is why there are Greek loanwords (ancient) in the Arabic language that predate the Islamic era.
While there were ancient trade ties with East Asia and some people to people ties, they were naturally less obvious due to geography. Although Arabia used to have closer ties with East Asia, South Asia and South East Asia than say North Africa (naturally - once again due to geography).
I am not anti-Jewish. Arabs and Jews are related people. Cousins in fact. Almost 2/3 of all Israeli Jews (contrary to popular belief) are Jews from Arab countries spanning from Yemen to Morocco. They are called Mizrahi Jews. Some call themselves Arab Jews.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Jews
Both Islam and Judaism are ancient Abrahamic religions native to the Arab world/Semitic Near East just as Christianity is btw although it was shaped/influenced by pagan Roman traditions, hence it being less monotheistic in nature. Israel and the Arab world border each other (Israel is in fact surrounded). Throughout most of history Arabs and Jews had cordial relations. Only after the mass-migrations of Jews into Palestine (later Israel) the conflict arose. I believe that it can be solved if a two-state solution is reached. It would be the best solution for Palestinians and Israelis (first and foremost) and the Arab and Muslim world and entire world in fact.
I am not anti-Jewish just like I am not anti-Iranian. Whenever I am anti-something it is always regime or regime policies and maybe their supporters if I argue with them.
I agree that there is ample potential for Chinese-Russian cooperation and that this cooperation will likely continue but as I wrote initially I do not believe that Russia will shun Europe/West forever. The reality is that most of the Russian youth feel much more closer to the West than say China. Once again due to cultural, historical etc. reasons. It's just what it is. Can't do much about it on the short run at least.
And you know what I admire most in today's world aside from science, ambitious rulers and nations? Pragmatic leaderships who try to befriend everyone for mutually beneficial reasons and to ignore the disagreements but highly what is in common. I hope MbS will be such a leader although I hope that he will have a different policy on certain fronts when it comes to the MB, Iran and other issues. Pragmatism all the way.
And Chinese have mastered this today and historically too by large and at the same time being "closed off".
Not a huge fan of the word Barbarian to be honest with you (outside of troll discussions on forums) as each entity, people etc. at various times in history have had much harsher challenges to face than those with ample luxuries. For instance was the average illiterate Chinese villager an barbarian 60 years ago compared to an academic student (maybe a grandson or granddaughter) now based in Hong-Kong or Shanghai? I don't think so. Obviously Mongol genocide, is barbarian, no doubt about it, but we must remember where the Mongols came from. From some of the most harsh and isolated area on the planet. More or less isolated completely. This breeds a special kind of people. I compare it with the Bedouins in the Arab world. While famous warriors, poets, storytellers, musicians, artists, skilled merchants, skilled agriculturalists (if pastoral nomads), skilled horse and camel breeders, skilled trackers in the desert, mountains ares and steppes, they had a nasty ability to attack if threatened or desperate (in need of food or water) so they gained a reputation or being warlike and independent people who were always difficult to control. They lived like that for centuries and millennia while their settled cousins, developed completely differently. If you look at history, we all began as nomads. Then came the first settled communities. Afterwards they were usually replaced by the nomads and this kept going on until most of the population was settled and more "pacified". If you read ancient Semitic history (Arabian, Mesopotamian, Levantine, Egyptian etc. civilizations) you will notice this trend. The so-famously technologically advanced Babylonians and the kings of Sargon the Great, were a few centuries ago (here we are talking about almost 5000 years ago) pastoral nomads living in Northern Arabia and Southern Levant (Sham). Until they met the Sumerians of Southern Iraq and Northeastern Arabia and mixed and took the best from them and left the old and added their own layers. Later to be replaced themselves by Amorites, Assyrians etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Semitic-speaking_peoples
No doubt about that. I meant no insults against Mongols or Manchus. I just mentioned that they were mostly nomadic compared to the settled Eastern China and highly-populated Eastern China. Just like Central Arabia has been historically a hotspot for pastoral nomads and Bedouins while the West, South, East and North have a much longer urban history. That's not to say that Najd does not have ancient cities that are several millennia old as well as ancient civilizations. Of course it does. But there were various stages. Once settled people became nomads due to climate changes or invasions.
Yes, most royal dynasties in Europe are of Germanic origin. Even the French, Spanish etc. royal family (Capetians) were of Germanic (Frankish) origin from modern-day Belgium. They emerged some 1200 years ago.
Sure, China suffered a lot from the West just like the Arab world did in that same period and continues to do due to being fragmented, not an single entity and due to 20 + different policies and opinions by regimes. Or geography (for good and bad Europe is next door in particular compared to East Asia).
Isolated maybe by its own choice and do to being big enough by itself (China) due to history and population. As for Russia, I agree that they will always be a separate entity like they have been since they emerged some 1100 years ago. However they will always be a part of the European cultural sphere and family (IMO) just like the vast majority of the Russian population lives in European Russia. The part that is much closer to Europe and hell even the Middle East (KSA for instance) than Shanghai, Beijing or Hong-Kong. I also agree that the past 100 years of history (since the Russian revolution) will leave its marks a long time in the future. Had the Russian revolution not occurred, I am sure that Russia and most of Eastern Europe would be very similar to the remaining Europe, in particular Central and Northern Europe.
As for your last part, I completely agree with you wholeheartedly. I look at the US in this relationship as the "bad boy" and "troublemaker" that cannot quite accept that a new competitor has entered the field (in fact an old one long prior to the US emergence) but officially is non-hostile (cooperating - doing business with each other) while trying to undermine the new competitor behind its back. It's the typical reaction of a hegemon/empire to a new competitor. Usually this ends up with is own downfall but as I said I just hope that this "downfall" (China taking the throne as the biggest economy and possibly the most influential country worldwide) will be peaceful in our day and age otherwise we are ALL screwed.
Also I agree that due to the Chinese national character and history, that once China edges the US on this field, it will act differently than the US. Most likely be much more accepting of a bipolar world order. Obviously out of necessity too as even China cannot control the entire world on its own. In fact no national state is able to do that and I think that we should be happy about this IMO knowing the human psyche.
No, it's all my pleasure. Time to go my friend and I do enjoy your posts so keep them coming. Very informative.
