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Spot-fixing/Match-fixing scandal

Cynic Waheed -

The ICC does not need legal convictions to ban or suspend players. PCB suspended players on many occassions on what grounds ? Its not court of law.

ICC can life ban all 3 even if Mujeed go free.

What RACISM ? You meant PCB intentionally banned 'Pathan' Younis Khan ? LOL

As usual PCB failed to deliver, so ICC stepped in and did it for them. ICC doesn't have to prove it in court. Just like PCB when they banned 7 players.

It means ICC has SOLID PROOF, they are now FULLY CONVINCED otherwise they are due for a big lawsuit.

The players will have to prove their innocence, opportunity to defend these charges at a full hearing before an independent Anti-Corruption Tribunal.

Scotland Yard - Job Done (Gave their verdict to ICC, now they will focus on financial irregularities)

ICC - Job Done (Made a move)

PCB - Failed to deliver (plus bad timing of High Commissioner statement actually forced ICC to take action asap or matter will drag)

Court - PCB/Players can contest, like Umpire Darrell Hair's decision to sue the ICC.

Minimum Ban - 5 years
 
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Cynic Waheed -

The ICC does not need legal convictions to ban or suspend players. PCB suspended players on many occassions on what grounds ? Its not court of law.

ICC can life ban all 3 even if Mujeed go free.

What RACISM ? You meant PCB intentionally banned 'Pathan' Younis Khan ? LOL

As usual PCB failed to deliver, so ICC stepped in and did it for them. ICC doesn't have to prove it in court. Just like PCB when they banned 7 players.

It means ICC has SOLID PROOF, they are now FULLY CONVINCED otherwise they are due for a big lawsuit.

The players will have to prove their innocence, opportunity to defend these charges at a full hearing before an independent Anti-Corruption Tribunal.

Scotland Yard - Job Done (Gave their verdict to ICC, now they will focus on financial irregularities)

ICC - Job Done (Made a move)

PCB - Failed to deliver (plus bad timing of High Commissioner statement actually forced ICC to take action asap or matter will drag)

Court - PCB/Players can contest, like Umpire Darrell Hair's decision to sue the ICC.

Minimum Ban - 5 years

Firstly am sorry to use the word in a misleading way let me try and explain what i meant.

I do agree with you that ICC can ban the players etc. without any legal convictions. But on this particular occasion ICC intervened after allegations were made by UK press, which are still to be proven. Therefore from where I see it, it is a punishment for something that hasn't been proven yet. Something that is still under investigation.How is ICC itself convinced even before it is 'technically' proven? If these players were actually convicted and ICC took this step then it would have made perfect sense. But right now when these players voluntarily pulled out till investigation is completed, imo it was wrong for ICC to punish them without any conviction.

If they have any proofs , we shall see it tomorrow in their press conference.

PS: Your comment about High Commissioner is very interesting and I agree it could have forced ICC to take drastic action. He should have stayed quiet till investigation was completed. Anyhow lets see what follows.
 
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Thats the norm all over the world except probably in Pakistan.

without meaning to be rude i really dont get what you mean by that.

Ps What does Racism in context mean ? I am totally lost

They are not 'Guilty' as yet so why treat them as if they are? And please Be Neutral when answering it 'Always Neutral'! :)

kind regards.
 
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How is it a good step when these players arent even proven guilty yet? I sense rascism man, like ICC has made a pre-judgement before any credible evidence is even out in the open!!

Hi,

I think that the choice word would be 'prejudiced'---that is what it seems from the suspension---. I think Mr Lorgat has stepped out of bounds by placing the suspension---he has been continuously repeating examplary punishment---.

I believe that Mr Lorgat has a hardon against the pak players at this stage.

Once the PCB had stated that the players won't participate for the next games---it should have been taken as a de-facto suspension. It would have given the ICC and the police time to sort out the case and see if there was evidence to substantiate legal proceedings.

Wajid Shamsul Hassan has done what was neccessary---made the statement about the players not participating for the next 5 game etc---and had made it easier for the ICC not to act in haste.

So, as the players had withdrawn themselves voluntarily---it would have given the ICC some kind of breathing room---a few extra days---. This decision by Lorgat is unfortunate---. It is prejudicial and uncalled for.
 
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Hi,

I think that the choice word would be 'prejudiced'---that is what it seems from the suspension---. I think Mr Lorgat has stepped out of bounds by placing the suspension---he has been continuously repeating examplary punishment---.

I believe that Mr Lorgat has a hardon against the pak players at this stage.

Once the PCB had stated that the players won't participate for the next games---it should have been taken as a de-facto suspension. It would have given the ICC and the police time to sort out the case and see if there was evidence to substantiate legal proceedings.

Wajid Shamsul Hassan has done what was neccessary---made the statement about the players not participating for the next 5 game etc---and had made it easier for the ICC not to act in haste.

So, as the players had withdrawn themselves voluntarily---it would have given the ICC some kind of breathing room---a few extra days---. This decision by Lorgat is unfortunate---. It is prejudicial and uncalled for.

Passing judgement of ICC's intentions might also not be fair at the moment. They held hearing with the three players and if Prima Facia they appeared guilty and failed to raise sufficient doubt - Suspension would be the only logical step.

If it was based simply on media footage and reporting it would certainly be prejudiced but after conducting a primary hearing - this is their precautionary judgement. Additionally as we all saw - the proof is pretty damning.

ICC also needs to appear pro-active as this issue of fixing (spot or otherwise) can very well spell dooms for the sport as a whole.

- comments??
 
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Passing judgement of ICC's intentions might also not be fair at the moment. They held hearing with the three players and if Prima Facia they appeared guilty and failed to raise sufficient doubt - Suspension would be the only logical step.

If it was based simply on media footage and reporting it would certainly be prejudiced but after conducting a primary hearing - this is their precautionary judgement. Additionally as we all saw - the proof is pretty damning.

ICC also needs to appear pro-active as this issue of fixing (spot or otherwise) can very well spell dooms for the sport as a whole.

- comments??

Has the ICC held a hearing with the 3 players? AFAIK the players have only met with the PCB Chief, HC and SY.

Additionally, as the HC Hassan pointed out, how can the ICC take a decision on suspension and 'hearings' when the investigation is still ongoing, and no trial has taken place and no one found guilty?

I understand the 'need to protect the game' but this move was premature and unnecessary, and will come across as the ICC determining guilt before hand.
 
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I totally agree with you it is a very harsh decision at a time when they aren't even proven guilty yet. If they wanted to make this case an example for others they should have waited till the investigation was complete! At this moment it seems that ICC is determined to punish these lot for whatever reason they want!

It's unfortunate on these players if they are innocent. But if they are proven guilty, there won't be just a provisional suspension - more like an extended ban or something. It also means the ICC will not be able to make an example of this case.

All said, I don't support this suspension. But hopefully this acts as a deterrent to be even associated with bookies.
 
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Three Pakistan players suspended by ICC and charged under anti-corruption code

Captain and two bowlers protest their innocence as players are to be interviewed by police under caution

The three Pakistan cricketers at the centre of an alleged betting scam that has thrown world cricket into crisis were last night charged under the anti-corruption code of the game's governing body and provisionally suspended.

After a day that began with the Pakistan Cricket Board agreeing to omit the players from the team for the rest of the tour, and the Pakistan high commissioner claiming they were "set-up" by the News of the World, the ICC suspended the three pending a tribunal.

Outside the west London hotel in which Test captain Salman Butt, fast bowler Mohammad Asif and brilliant teenage prospect Mohammad Amir are also staying, ICC chief executive Haroon Lorgat provided the swift action many in the game had demanded.

"We will not tolerate corruption in cricket – simple as that. We must be decisive with such matters and, if proven, these offences carry serious penalties up to a life ban," he said.

"The ICC will do everything possible to keep such conduct out of the game and we will stop at nothing to protect the sport's integrity. While we believe the problem is not widespread, we must always be vigilant. It is important, however, that we do not pre-judge the guilt of these three players. That is for the independent tribunal alone to decide."

Under tougher new rules brought in last year by the ICC, the players can be suspended provisionally ahead of any hearing if it is in the interests of the game.

The row was triggered by allegations in the News of the World that the three had agreed to bowl no-balls in specific overs of last week's fourth Test at Lord's in return for money.

The charges were announced after officials from the ICC's anti-corruption and security unit (ACSU) spent the afternoon at Scotland Yard viewing evidence and seeking police go-ahead. The police are conducting a parallel criminal inquiry.

The three players will today be interviewed under police caution for the first time. Earlier they had agreed to withdraw from the rest of the tour citing the "mental torture" they had been placed under by the allegations. They protested their innocence and the Pakistani high commissioner suggested they might have been "set up" by the News of the World.

While their team-mates were turning out against Somerset 160 miles away in Taunton, the accused three were being whisked into their country's high commission in London amid a flurry of claims and top level political negotiations.

ICC investigators, who had been examining spot-fixing allegations against Pakistan for some time, have been in London since Monday. Sir Ronnie Flanagan, the former Northern Ireland police chief who was appointed chairman of the ACSU three months ago, arrived from Abu Dhabi to join them, while its chief investigator, Ravi Sawani, met police.

But despite withdrawing the players from the tour, following pressure behind the scenes from the England and Wales Cricket Board and the sport's global governing body, the Pakistan camp remained bullish.

The high commissioner, Wajid Shamsul Hasan, claimed the players had been "set up" by the News of the World. Asked if they had been framed, he answered "yes" and suggested the newspaper's video evidence could have been filmed after the contentious no-balls had been bowled.

The News of the World said it "refuses to respond to such ludicrous allegations". The newspaper is understood to be preparing further revelations for Sunday.

Hasan said of the three players: "They are extremely disturbed about what has happened in the past week, particularly in regards to their alleged involvement in the crime. They mentioned they are entirely innocent and shall defend their innocence as such.

"They further maintain that on account of the mental torture that has affected them they are not in right frame of mind to play the remaining matches."

Pakistani journalists repeatedly asked whether the team was a victim of a conspiracy and Pakistan's sports minister, Ijaz Jakhrani, also suggested there could be another explanation for the apparently damning News of the World evidence.

"Let's wait until the report comes. After that we will be in a position to see if it is spot fixing, if it is match fixing or if it is a conspiracy against these players or against the country," he told the Indian news channel CNN-IBN.

After the three wary-looking players arrived to a media posse and a small knot of 20 or so protesters, officials from the Pakistan high commission handed out copies of an article by the journalist and academic Roy Greenslade.

The piece was highly critical of the methods used in previous stings by Mazher Mahmood – the so-called "Fake Sheikh" behind the sensational News of the World claim that a middleman accepted £150,000 to correctly predict the exact time when no-balls would be bowled.

Although Hasan insisted the three players were "not running away" – they will remain in England and their passports are being held by the team manager – they were whisked out of a side door and departed in a people carrier while the car in which they arrived acted as a decoy.

Mazhar Majeed, the 35-year-old middleman the News of the World alleges was at the heart of the betting sting, was arrested on Sunday and released on bail. Separately, he was also arrested as part of an investigation by HM Revenue and Customs into money laundering through Croydon Athletic, the non-league football club he owns.

Both the ECB and the ICC felt the intense focus on and public clamour for action had made it impossible for the three players to play any further part in the tour. The ICC was under pressure to act before Sunday's Twenty20 match between England and Pakistan in Cardiff.

Sources had indicated all week that a negotiated withdrawal was the most likely solution, but a last minute intervention from PCB chairman, Ijaz Butt, threw a spanner in the works. His insistence that the players might still play was seen as an attempt to reassure the Pakistani public that it was not capitulating.

Three Pakistan players suspended by ICC and charged under anti-corruption code | Sport | The Guardian
 
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Has the ICC held a hearing with the 3 players? AFAIK the players have only met with the PCB Chief, HC and SY.

Additionally, as the HC Hassan pointed out, how can the ICC take a decision on suspension and 'hearings' when the investigation is still ongoing, and no trial has taken place and no one found guilty?

I understand the 'need to protect the game' but this move was premature and unnecessary, and will come across as the ICC determining guilt before hand.

The investigation is ongoing that's why the suspension, it's quite a norm everywhere, if there's any charge on you, naturally you will get suspended; proven innocence you can walk free. AFAIK even PCB unofficially suspended the concerned players, ICC only made it official. Also I think the unnecessary comment by High-Commissioner helped ICC to decide.
 
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Let them be proven guilty legally. This is harsh enough for just an allegation.

Not just an allegation but plenty of evidence too. I think there was some allegation on Shoib Malik too in recent past, ICC didn't suspend him just for the allegation, though PCB did supposedly quoting 'infighting' as a reason.
 
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Passing judgement of ICC's intentions might also not be fair at the moment. They held hearing with the three players and if Prima Facia they appeared guilty and failed to raise sufficient doubt - Suspension would be the only logical step.

If it was based simply on media footage and reporting it would certainly be prejudiced but after conducting a primary hearing - this is their precautionary judgement. Additionally as we all saw - the proof is pretty damning.

ICC also needs to appear pro-active as this issue of fixing (spot or otherwise) can very well spell dooms for the sport as a whole.

- comments??

Hi,

There is no damning proof of any sort. The pcb needs to take legal action against Haroon Lorgat---.

The punishment has to fit the crime---Lorgat is on a witch hunt---. In the court of law----no balls have no legal standing in the court---they have to show who was betting---and who benifitted. It ain't that simple.

Pak got rid of that fat umpire first---I guess it is time for Lorgat to go.
 
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Hi,

There is no damning proof of any sort. The pcb needs to take legal action against Haroon Lorgat---.

The punishment has to fit the crime---Lorgat is on a witch hunt---. In the court of law----no balls have no legal standing in the court---they have to show who was betting---and who benifitted. It ain't that simple.

Pak got rid of that fat umpire first---I guess it is time for Lorgat to go.

Well Same thing for dropping catch, deliberately run out also, no legal standing.

ICC did a good job by suspending the player.
 
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