South China Sea Forum
- Thread starter SinoChallenger
- Start date
Kiss_of_the_Dragon
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2011
- Messages
- 10,253
- Reaction score
- 11
- Country
- Location
"Freedom of Navigation" is just a recent slogan used by US as excuse to meddle SCS affaire, and you call that as basic right since ancient time.
, and to add insult to American "freedom of Navigation", Russia invent a new slogan "Freedom of Aeronautic" 
during the SU-24 close encounter with US destroyer at Baltic sea...LMAO...just too funny
HongWu002
BANNED
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2015
- Messages
- 244
- Reaction score
- -1
- Country
- Location
xunzi
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2013
- Messages
- 4,735
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
Nobody questions about the freedom of navigation in the EEZ of other countries. What we opposing is the doing renaissance inside the EEZ of other countries. That is disrespectful. But if that is what the US wants, then they shall be prepare when our navy operated and spy in all of their allies EEZ.
Taygibay
PROFESSIONAL
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Messages
- 3,392
- Reaction score
- 29
- Country
- Location
Calm down good people, this article carries bias that makes the subject of it look for what it's not!
This sentence shows it well :
"The cancellation of a scheduled freedom of navigation operation undermines earlier pledges by senior U.S. officials, including Defense Secretary Ashton Carter, that the patrols would become a regular occurrence in the South China Sea."
That's crap! The first of those FONOP as the article itself specifies was in 2015
and the second in January. Thus, skipping one ( not even really skipping actually
but merely replacing it with air patrols ) at this point means little. There is time for
one or two more before the year ends. Not coming every 3 months on the clock is
not the same as not being regular. Birthdays come once a year only and yet are ...
regular occurrences.
Heck, if one FONOP was held in June & one in November then 4 next year ( 2017 ),
that would be a "regular" 100% yearly increase, wouldn't it?
If you read between the lines, the author is pushing a warmonger's agenda to DC.
Don't base your knowledge entirely on glorified lobbyists' pieces; trust the facts!
好日子所有, Tay.
This sentence shows it well :
"The cancellation of a scheduled freedom of navigation operation undermines earlier pledges by senior U.S. officials, including Defense Secretary Ashton Carter, that the patrols would become a regular occurrence in the South China Sea."
That's crap! The first of those FONOP as the article itself specifies was in 2015
and the second in January. Thus, skipping one ( not even really skipping actually
but merely replacing it with air patrols ) at this point means little. There is time for
one or two more before the year ends. Not coming every 3 months on the clock is
not the same as not being regular. Birthdays come once a year only and yet are ...
regular occurrences.
Heck, if one FONOP was held in June & one in November then 4 next year ( 2017 ),
that would be a "regular" 100% yearly increase, wouldn't it?
If you read between the lines, the author is pushing a warmonger's agenda to DC.
Don't base your knowledge entirely on glorified lobbyists' pieces; trust the facts!
好日子所有, Tay.
Last edited:
Nilgiri
BANNED
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2015
- Messages
- 24,797
- Reaction score
- 81
- Country
- Location
They are violating your claimed territorial waters (not just EEZ recon)....since a territorial water would extend 12 nautical miles from each island that China claims in SCS....and US made sure to sail it ships within that distance...right next to those islands.
xunzi
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2013
- Messages
- 4,735
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
You are right. The US violated our water many times. If it wasn't for our great patient, this would be war a long time ago. Now you finally understand why we are defending our national water. LOL
BoQ77
BANNED
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2012
- Messages
- 8,704
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Vietnam sent the Navy missile guided Fast Attack Ship and naval special force to ASEAN ADMM+MS/CT 2016
............................................
Preparations for ADMM+MS/CT 2016 inspected
PANO - Wednesday, April 27, 2016,
PANO – A delegation of the Navy inspected the preparations of crew members on ship 381 (Brigade 162, Naval Region 4), on April 26th, for their participation in the ASEAN Defense Ministers’ Meeting Plus Maritime Security and Counterterrorism Exercise (ADMM+MS/CT 2016). The assigned unit is now in Cam Ranh Military Port, Khanh Hoa province, to be ready for the big regional maritime event.
The crew of ship 381
During the inspection, the delegation praised ship 381’s efforts in thoroughly preparing forces and equipment for the coming event. The delegation also made recommendations about how to prepare for the meeting and contribute to the success of the exercises.
Maritime security and counterterrorism exercises will take place in Brunei and Singapore from May 2nd to 12th. This year Vietnam will send naval and commando troops to join the exercises and strengthen bilateral defense cooperation with Brunei and Singapore. The participation of Vietnamese troops in the event demonstrates the Vietnamese Party, State, and Army protecting sovereignty over seas and islands, protecting national interests at sea, and ensuring regional security. This is all in accordance with international law and with new challenges regarding maritime security and terrorism in the region.
Hamartia Antidote
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2013
- Messages
- 35,188
- Reaction score
- 30
- Country
- Location
Sorry it isn't a recent slogan...there were 2 major incidents (and many other littler ones) off Libya in the 1980's due to Freedom of Navigation issues in Libya's "Line of Death".
They weren't minor either like the SCS stuff...at least 4 fighters were shot down.
The US ships were nowhere close to 12 miles out either. Probably more like 100.
Last edited:
Kiss_of_the_Dragon
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2011
- Messages
- 10,253
- Reaction score
- 11
- Country
- Location
Freedom of navigation was American idea to counter UNCLOS in 1979, because under UNCLOS it will restrain US sea hegemonic action and force it to respect on international law and US refused because it's not in US interest to do so and it know that none of UNCLOS nations has the capability to force US to accept the UNCLOS law. And Hypocritically US is trying to lecture China with UNCLOS over SCS...LMAO
Hamartia Antidote
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2013
- Messages
- 35,188
- Reaction score
- 30
- Country
- Location
"Freedom of the Seas" has been used for 100's of years. UNCLOS sought to establish a unified territorial limit since some countries had 3 miles while other said 100 miles. 12 miles was the agreed upon worldwide limit.
Not sure how you see UNCLOS being contrary to the Libya incident.
UNCLOS did have other provisions in it that the US objected to. Most of it had to do with seafloor mining outside your territory.
I don't think there are any ship navigation issues in UNCLOS that the US objects to.
Last edited:
Reashot Xigwin
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2012
- Messages
- 5,747
- Reaction score
- 0
Indonesia to finalise joint patrol plan in South China Sea with Malaysia, Philippines
Indonesia's Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Luhut Pandjaitan says more needs to be done to deter piracy.PHOTO: REUTERS
Published
6 hours ago
Francis Chan
Indonesia Bureau Chief
Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines are expected to finalise plans for joint patrols in piracy-prone areas in the South China Sea at a trilateral meeting in Yogyakarta on Thursday (May 5).
The gathering of foreign ministers and armed forces chiefs from the three countries comes after recent kidnappings in the waters off southern Philippines and north of Borneo, where Indonesia shares a border with Malaysia.
The officials will first call on President Joko Widodo at the Gedung Agung presidential palace in the city, before meeting to discuss how they can cooperate to further enhance security in the region.
In the past five weeks, 14 Indonesian and four Malaysian seamen were abducted from their boats by gunmen believed to have ties with the Abu Sayyaf terrorist group.
Ten Indonesians seized at the end of March were released on May 1 and have since returned home.
Indonesia's Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Luhut Pandjaitan had said that more needs to be done to deter piracy before the kidnappings become a booming business as it has evolved into in Somalia.
Experts say the joint patrols may take the form of the successful Malacca Straits Patrol (MSP), which was established on April 21, 2006, by the navies of Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia.
The MSP is a set of cooperative measures made up of the Malacca Strait Sea Patrol (MSSP); "Eyes in the Sky" aerial patrols; and the MSP Intelligence Exchange Group.
The navy chiefs of Indonesia, Singapore and Thailand as well as Malaysia's deputy chief of navy had gathered at Singapore's Changi Naval Base on April 21 to commemorate the MSP's 10th anniversary.
The MSSP has been successful in tackling piracy in South-east Asia, significantly reducing the number of piracy attacks in the busy sea lane, two experts from the University of Indonesia (UI) told The Jakarta Post on May 3.
"Notwithstanding the success of the joint patrol in the Malacca Strait as a lesson learned, a joint patrol in the sea off Kalimantan would be a challenging task with different factors to take into account,"said Mr Christian Guntur Lebang and Mr Muhamad Arif from UI.
Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi did not rule out the possibility of turning to a model similar to the MSSP, but she added that any cooperation among the three countries must be agreed on without any of them sacrificing their sovereignty.
"Negotiations will go on until we find a common understanding and are able to conduct joint operations," she said on Wednesday.
Philippine Foreign Secretary Jose Rene Almendras said after calling on Ms Retno he was grateful that his Indonesian counterpart and President Joko had initiated the trilateral meeting.
"We are here, contrary to reports that the Philippines is not supportive of the proposed coordinated patrols and coordinated activities and information sharing," he said at a press conference at the Foreign Affairs Ministry in Jakarta.
"Our presence here is testament that we, the Philippines, are very very interested in coming up and participating in the discussions so that agreements can happen."
He added that the release of the 10 Indonesian seamen was "very meaningful" to the Philippines.
"We are very pleased and happy that it has happened but I must say that the Indonesian people must acknowledge the fact that the Indonesian government did its very best to get them released. Their efforts, their initiatives, which we work with them on, have resulted in the (release) and we hope the release of the rest of the hostages will also happen."
tkchan@sph.com.sg
Indonesia's Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Luhut Pandjaitan says more needs to be done to deter piracy.PHOTO: REUTERS
Published
6 hours ago
Francis Chan
Indonesia Bureau Chief
Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines are expected to finalise plans for joint patrols in piracy-prone areas in the South China Sea at a trilateral meeting in Yogyakarta on Thursday (May 5).
The gathering of foreign ministers and armed forces chiefs from the three countries comes after recent kidnappings in the waters off southern Philippines and north of Borneo, where Indonesia shares a border with Malaysia.
The officials will first call on President Joko Widodo at the Gedung Agung presidential palace in the city, before meeting to discuss how they can cooperate to further enhance security in the region.
In the past five weeks, 14 Indonesian and four Malaysian seamen were abducted from their boats by gunmen believed to have ties with the Abu Sayyaf terrorist group.
Ten Indonesians seized at the end of March were released on May 1 and have since returned home.
Indonesia's Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Luhut Pandjaitan had said that more needs to be done to deter piracy before the kidnappings become a booming business as it has evolved into in Somalia.
Experts say the joint patrols may take the form of the successful Malacca Straits Patrol (MSP), which was established on April 21, 2006, by the navies of Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia.
The MSP is a set of cooperative measures made up of the Malacca Strait Sea Patrol (MSSP); "Eyes in the Sky" aerial patrols; and the MSP Intelligence Exchange Group.
The navy chiefs of Indonesia, Singapore and Thailand as well as Malaysia's deputy chief of navy had gathered at Singapore's Changi Naval Base on April 21 to commemorate the MSP's 10th anniversary.
The MSSP has been successful in tackling piracy in South-east Asia, significantly reducing the number of piracy attacks in the busy sea lane, two experts from the University of Indonesia (UI) told The Jakarta Post on May 3.
"Notwithstanding the success of the joint patrol in the Malacca Strait as a lesson learned, a joint patrol in the sea off Kalimantan would be a challenging task with different factors to take into account,"said Mr Christian Guntur Lebang and Mr Muhamad Arif from UI.
Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi did not rule out the possibility of turning to a model similar to the MSSP, but she added that any cooperation among the three countries must be agreed on without any of them sacrificing their sovereignty.
"Negotiations will go on until we find a common understanding and are able to conduct joint operations," she said on Wednesday.
Philippine Foreign Secretary Jose Rene Almendras said after calling on Ms Retno he was grateful that his Indonesian counterpart and President Joko had initiated the trilateral meeting.
"We are here, contrary to reports that the Philippines is not supportive of the proposed coordinated patrols and coordinated activities and information sharing," he said at a press conference at the Foreign Affairs Ministry in Jakarta.
"Our presence here is testament that we, the Philippines, are very very interested in coming up and participating in the discussions so that agreements can happen."
He added that the release of the 10 Indonesian seamen was "very meaningful" to the Philippines.
"We are very pleased and happy that it has happened but I must say that the Indonesian people must acknowledge the fact that the Indonesian government did its very best to get them released. Their efforts, their initiatives, which we work with them on, have resulted in the (release) and we hope the release of the rest of the hostages will also happen."
tkchan@sph.com.sg
U.S. journal criticizes Obama administration for provocation in South China Sea
(Xinhua) 14:39, May 07, 2016
NEW YORK, May 6 -- The Barack Obama administration's provocative policy in the Pacific is gunboat diplomacy in disguise and may lead to war in the region if not quickly reversed, a U.S. journal warned on Friday.
The article "Prelude to War in the Pacific," published on the latest issue of Executive Intelligence Review, provided a detailed analysis on why the provocative meddling in the Pacific region by the United States is dangerous, why China's territorial claims of the Nansha and Xisha Islands are legitimate, and how the United States is sabotaging the amicable resolution of the regional conflict.
Bylined by the Washington Bureau Chief of the publication William Jones, the article noted that Washington did not sign the UN Law of the Sea Convention, but elaborated its unilateral "freedom of navigation policy" out of the country's own selfish interests.
The policy effectively allows the U.S. Navy to sail wherever and whenever it wants, unimpeded by any treaty, which essentially making U.S. military vessels a modern form of "gunboat diplomacy," wrote Jones.
It denounced Western media for depicting China's claims to the Nansha and Xisha Islands as a Chinese "power grab," arguing that for most of China's history, these claims have never been contested.
Throughout the region's history, extensive activities by Chinese on the islands were present, including fishing and planting, and some Chinese even lived on the islands for years. Many Chinese relics and remains have been found there, including the remains of temples, the article said.
Jones also argued that Chinese possession of the islands would have a beneficial effect on navigation in the region.
"Already China has constructed two lighthouses on Huayang Reef in the Nanshas, and emergency rescue facilities have been established on the Nanshas and Xishas."
The article made an accurate analogy to display the hypocrisy of the U.S. rhetoric.
"Remember that the United States in 1872 sent General John Schofield to the then independent kingdom of Hawaii to investigate those islands for the purpose of eventually putting U.S. military facilities on an advanced perimeter in the Pacific," said the article.
"But the Hawaiian Islands are 2,390 miles from the coast of California, while the Nansha Islands are 500 miles from the Chinese coast and the Xisha only 180 miles. And while the United States had no claim to the Hawaiian Islands (but would soon annex them in rather murky circumstances), China does have such a claim, a claim which was once universally recognized," Jones argued.
Jones believed that countries in the region had a path to peaceful resolution to the conflicts of their territorial claims, but Washington was actively sabotaging the efforts.
"China is clearly aware of the conflicts that have arisen with its neighbors over its attempt to make good on its claims," said Jones in the article. "It is also concerned to maintain amicable relations with its neighbors, and is therefore engaged in coming to agreements with the various claimants through a process of bilateral negotiations."
The article highlighted the agreements between the countries of the region, encapsulated in the 2012 Declaration of Conduct signed by the members of ASEAN and the government of China.
The document calls on the parties "to resolve their territorial and jurisdictional disputes by peaceful means, without resorting to the threat or use of force, through friendly consultations and negotiations by sovereign states directly concerned, in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea."
However, the Philippines has taken the issue to arbitration in its dispute with China. And with the blessing of the United States, the Philippines is hoping that the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague will rule in its favor, said the article.
Jones argued that if the disputes involved only the countries in the region, they could be resolved amicably. "Given the economic strength of China and its clear willingness to use that strength to create a win-win situation for its neighbors -- as we have seen in China's Belt and Road Initiative -- there is no reason that satisfactory arrangements beneficial to all could not be worked out."
The article warned sternly against U.S. provocative policy in the Pacific region, saying that the U.S. invasions of Chinese waters, and the attempts by the United States to create a mini-NATO to target China using the few allies it has in the region, have made an amicable solution impossible.
http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0507/c90777-9054520.html
(Xinhua) 14:39, May 07, 2016
NEW YORK, May 6 -- The Barack Obama administration's provocative policy in the Pacific is gunboat diplomacy in disguise and may lead to war in the region if not quickly reversed, a U.S. journal warned on Friday.
The article "Prelude to War in the Pacific," published on the latest issue of Executive Intelligence Review, provided a detailed analysis on why the provocative meddling in the Pacific region by the United States is dangerous, why China's territorial claims of the Nansha and Xisha Islands are legitimate, and how the United States is sabotaging the amicable resolution of the regional conflict.
Bylined by the Washington Bureau Chief of the publication William Jones, the article noted that Washington did not sign the UN Law of the Sea Convention, but elaborated its unilateral "freedom of navigation policy" out of the country's own selfish interests.
The policy effectively allows the U.S. Navy to sail wherever and whenever it wants, unimpeded by any treaty, which essentially making U.S. military vessels a modern form of "gunboat diplomacy," wrote Jones.
It denounced Western media for depicting China's claims to the Nansha and Xisha Islands as a Chinese "power grab," arguing that for most of China's history, these claims have never been contested.
Throughout the region's history, extensive activities by Chinese on the islands were present, including fishing and planting, and some Chinese even lived on the islands for years. Many Chinese relics and remains have been found there, including the remains of temples, the article said.
Jones also argued that Chinese possession of the islands would have a beneficial effect on navigation in the region.
"Already China has constructed two lighthouses on Huayang Reef in the Nanshas, and emergency rescue facilities have been established on the Nanshas and Xishas."
The article made an accurate analogy to display the hypocrisy of the U.S. rhetoric.
"Remember that the United States in 1872 sent General John Schofield to the then independent kingdom of Hawaii to investigate those islands for the purpose of eventually putting U.S. military facilities on an advanced perimeter in the Pacific," said the article.
"But the Hawaiian Islands are 2,390 miles from the coast of California, while the Nansha Islands are 500 miles from the Chinese coast and the Xisha only 180 miles. And while the United States had no claim to the Hawaiian Islands (but would soon annex them in rather murky circumstances), China does have such a claim, a claim which was once universally recognized," Jones argued.
Jones believed that countries in the region had a path to peaceful resolution to the conflicts of their territorial claims, but Washington was actively sabotaging the efforts.
"China is clearly aware of the conflicts that have arisen with its neighbors over its attempt to make good on its claims," said Jones in the article. "It is also concerned to maintain amicable relations with its neighbors, and is therefore engaged in coming to agreements with the various claimants through a process of bilateral negotiations."
The article highlighted the agreements between the countries of the region, encapsulated in the 2012 Declaration of Conduct signed by the members of ASEAN and the government of China.
The document calls on the parties "to resolve their territorial and jurisdictional disputes by peaceful means, without resorting to the threat or use of force, through friendly consultations and negotiations by sovereign states directly concerned, in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea."
However, the Philippines has taken the issue to arbitration in its dispute with China. And with the blessing of the United States, the Philippines is hoping that the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague will rule in its favor, said the article.
Jones argued that if the disputes involved only the countries in the region, they could be resolved amicably. "Given the economic strength of China and its clear willingness to use that strength to create a win-win situation for its neighbors -- as we have seen in China's Belt and Road Initiative -- there is no reason that satisfactory arrangements beneficial to all could not be worked out."
The article warned sternly against U.S. provocative policy in the Pacific region, saying that the U.S. invasions of Chinese waters, and the attempts by the United States to create a mini-NATO to target China using the few allies it has in the region, have made an amicable solution impossible.
http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0507/c90777-9054520.html
