So, Stealth Now, What next?? The truth and Speculation of 6th Generation

[Oldman1]

Boeing-Sikorsky RAH-66 Comanche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not the same helo.

 

[jhungary]

But a real world demo would have been great just to calibrate the capabilities, and u r right, by the time the world brings out a decent alternate 5th gen fighter US would have moved on to the next generation,
But the money spent on F35 and the delay is also justified, because the F35 in its numbers is more than enough to counter whatever the adversaries can field as an opponent to it in its maturity time frame.

The problem as you can see if while in the future the World would process Stealth Gen 5 technology, but they simply can't match the arsenalthat the US can produce. I would say the US Stealth Fleet will act more like a deterence force than our Nuclear Battery in the near future, and when the time come the world have been fully eqip with 5th Gen aircrarft, the US would probably finish and start fielding the 6th Gen. Even with the delay, the ACtual service time to take off the F-35 will still be shorter than all other Stealth fighter, simply the US have experience oerating the F-22 and compare to F-22, F-35 is a even smaller and simplier design,, we cna se F-35 will be adapting tothe airforce fleet faster than any other country's stealth program.

Yes, have seen a few concepts of the triangular one's, more than the air frames its whats built in is what is and will be difficult to estimate. After so many years no one's yet figured out whats in a F22, same will be the case with the next platorms.

I don't believe the airframe will be the same or near identical to the F-22, the frame will be sleeker than the YF-23 than the F-22, we got all we need on stealth and performance statistic on the F-22 project, those data will be fully utilise but the airframe will need to redesign

I am talking about this one:

EDI - Eddie - Stealth Wiki

Any chance??

The film was a big flop, but i liked the concept of the ac named - EDI/Eddie.

Not that there are no chance but the fact is, you don't need them, you will need a threat management computer which uses collective data to prioritise the target at hand. What it was should be a data table with auto regonition like a 3-D scanning (WHich already can be done) and by scan the target Radar signature and/or visual sighting, they match the table index with their computer and calculate the threat matrix, then proceed to target priority. This is my brother envisioned

THe only thing no one will figure out is whether it's fully automated (Which by-pass the pilot interface) or still human controlled (So there is still a button to push)

not possible . humans needs at least a 100 years of continuous scripting and logic fine tuning to get an algo tht works on par with a cockroach;and thts the dumbest way i can put it.

THe Ai complexity till date doesn't even match tht of a mosquito ,first we need to get to the lvl of a cockroach and then maybe think about making AI tht has operation functionality the goes beyond predefined loops of human fed logic.


AI has failed to develop and i dont think it will unless a radical leap is endured.

the next step Biomechanics and bio+ electrical+mechanical joint systems, Cyborgish.

I believe people say the same thing in 1950 to people who admire going to the space. But by 1960, we have already had people landed on the moon........SO, nothing is impossible, it's all depend on how hard you can imagine and how hard you trying to make it work.

AI now is basically a 6-Dimension AI (Left, Right, Up, Down, In and Out) with little or no interaction as interaction require learning and scientist still trying to figure out a "Learning AI"

THe problem is with the AI technology now, it is still based on the basic computer algorithm, which is still a step-by-step problem solving with 1 question to 1 answer (Base on binary 1, 0 or true and false), real world is not like this at all, sometime the best answer to a real world solution seems not logical, which is what a computer will not be able to think of. Until the world can create a illogical computer (Some sort of forced algorithm when the decision does not make sense), AI is no hope catching anywhere near human.

No way

By the way, here is Lockheed's model:

©LOCKHEED MARTIN

Though, this article was published back in January, there are some interesting points:


Source: Flightglobal.

They appear to be focused on the NG-bomber:

This 6th generation fighter will take a long time to fully materialize.

I doubt if this "energy weapons" thingy has even left the drawing board. Especially considering how much power is needed to power them. And on a fighter!

They also mentioned this "self-healing structures"? Will they be bio-mechanical or something?

The cockpit change is not aim to take out the human role altogether, but rather get into a more user friendly environment. Which is one selling point to the government. Current in a F-22 cockpit, a pilot still need to look at multiple instrument at the same time to check the aircraft statistic/data (Like speed and altitude) and radar, all the while he may be under enemy lock and need to check weapon system. which a heck a lot to do in case of a 1 minute dogfight and the outcome is usually life and death.

The fact that the dashboard on the pilot seat is the greatest enemy (All light up like a christmas tree under threat does not help) The only solution is to pipe all the data to the pilot helmet and eliminate the need to "Look-Around" by the pilot, a helmet that tell you where all the threat is, tell you your current speed and heading. Tell you what's up ahead, either by voice or by display like advance HUD. And the aircraft will go where you were looking at, and give you a real 360 degree battlefield.

Of course this is only best solution, gen 6 may still retain dash and stick if all the talk above cannot be accomplished. Well, nobody knows

looks like self healing structures seem to be agreed on as a defined characteristic of 6th gen craft.

That will be interesting to see.

Self Healing technology should either mean using either metal expansion or by nano-technology to repair a dmaaged frame.

 

[illusion8]

Boeing-Sikorsky RAH-66 Comanche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the course of the operation that cost the al Qaeda leader his life, one of the two Blackhawk helicopters that carried the SEALs into bin Laden's Pakistani compound grazed one of the compound's wall and was forced to make a hard landing. With the chopper inoperable, at the end of the mission the SEALs destroyed it with explosives.

But photos of what survived the explosion -- the tail section of the craft with curious modifications -- has sent military analysts buzzing about a stealth helicopter program that was only rumored to exist. From a modified tail boom to a noise reducing covering on the rear rotors and a special high-tech material similar to that used in stealth fighters, former Department of Defense official and vice president of the Lexington Institute Dan Goure said the bird is like nothing he's ever seen before.

Black Horizon: ABC News report on Stealth helicopter used in Bin Laden raid...

Wonder how many such projects and products already exist in the US arsenal.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Apparently, they also used Growlers during the Abottabad raid.

 

[illusion8]

The problem as you can see if while in the future the World would process Stealth Gen 5 technology, but they simply can't match the arsenalthat the US can produce. I would say the US Stealth Fleet will act more like a deterence force than our Nuclear Battery in the near future, and when the time come the world have been fully eqip with 5th Gen aircrarft, the US would probably finish and start fielding the 6th Gen. Even with the delay, the ACtual service time to take off the F-35 will still be shorter than all other Stealth fighter, simply the US have experience oerating the F-22 and compare to F-22, F-35 is a even smaller and simplier design,, we cna se F-35 will be adapting tothe airforce fleet faster than any other country's stealth program.

The F 35 production lines are rumored to manufacture one aircraft a day, so yes I am getting what you are saying here - besides the years of experience of actually operating a 5th gen will make it much easier obviously.

I don't believe the airframe will be the same or near identical to the F-22, the frame will be sleeker than the YF-23 than the F-22, we got all we need on stealth and performance statistic on the F-22 project, those data will be fully utilise but the airframe will need to redesign

The look I think will be totally different to the F 22 or the YF 23, a 6th according to my estimates will be able to take up multiple roles anti ground, anti ship, anti sub, besides the usual and will most probably be a hypersonic craft - just a guess.

AI now is basically a 6-Dimension AI (Left, Right, Up, Down, In and Out) with little or no interaction as interaction require learning and scientist still trying to figure out a "Learning AI"

THe problem is with the AI technology now, it is still based on the basic computer algorithm, which is still a step-by-step problem solving with 1 question to 1 answer (Base on binary 1, 0 or true and false), real world is not like this at all, sometime the best answer to a real world solution seems not logical, which is what a computer will not be able to think of. Until the world can create a illogical computer (Some sort of forced algorithm when the decision does not make sense), AI is no hope catching anywhere near human.

I have my doubts about it being completely AI.

Self Healing technology should either mean using either metal expansion or by nano-technology to repair a dmaaged frame.

This is enough to spin my head, nano tech to repair in flight - that's something to look out for.

But realistically I think as you mentioned in your first post - something similar to a car tyre - maybe the composites might seal the damage.

 

[darkinsky]

first they need to implement the 5th generation, they havent even replaced the new generation with the new one

 

[Secur]

Self Healing technology should either mean using either metal expansion or by nano-technology to repair a dmaaged frame.

Well actually this " Self Healing Airframe " idea is currently beyond what material technology can deliver ... So rule this out unless of course USA has a nice few tricks up its sleeves !

 

[Zabaniyah]

Well actually this " Self Healing Airframe " idea is currently beyond what material technology can deliver ... So rule this out unless of course USA has a nice few tricks up its sleeves !

It's likely to be based on some sort of nanotechnology.

Pretty exotic stuff...

 

[applesauce]

It's likely to be based on some sort of nanotechnology.

Pretty exotic stuff...

not that exotic, there are plenty of self healing plastic, concrete and composites out, self healing metals are certainly in the works

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

According to an old article that I used to read the Japanese already speculated that the next generation of jet fighter will be revolved around "Counter-Stealth"

But I digress the 6th gen or probably the 7th gen will be Drones, Drones and more Drones!. Let us face it there is no more need to put the Pilot in danger

 

[turbo charged]

there is nothing such as stealth........anything that is made of matter cant be stealth...radar is not the only mode to detect airplanes....we can use video cameras and binoculars too....
Pakistan should invest on large video cameras zoomed in and with a very wide field of view...connect them with LCD screens and make a command/observation center or make a separate organistion ...then make softwares so that if a plane is seen on LCD the alarm goes on....we can use the angle of cameras and the time of their detection on LCD screen to determine the location of the plane.........rest is history.

 

[Don Jaguar]

As the world have entered the Fifth Generation Fighters. Where Stealth and Fly-by Wire are the focal point in this Class.

While the rest of the world is still catching up with the fifth Generation, as of this moment, there are no production 5th Gen flying in this world except for the USA. THe American have already start their 6th Generation Jet Fighter project.

Dubbed Next Generation Tactical Aircraft for the USAF and the Next Generation Air Dominance for the US Navy the 6th Generation is set to fill the US Military in the year between 2030-2050,. unfortunately it will not be a drone as promised.

According to FBO (Federal Business Oppuntities or FedBizOpps.gov) the contract for 6th Generation Jet fighter will have the following Speciality

-Stealth
-Enchanced Human Interfaces
-Advance advanced electronic attack countermeasurement
-sophisticated integrated air defense systems
-Passive Detection
-integrated self-protection
-directed energy weapons (lasers)
-cyber attack capabilities

Although all the related contract are currently classifed as Top Secret, but Boeing have already tender their Bid to the 6th Gen Jet Fighter Program with the FA-XX

The detail is scratchy at this moment but after asking my brother (Who is a Military Engine Engineer with Boeing, i believe they are called Proplusion Engineer) and he told me what he think the Boeing 6th Gen bid is. (He is just guessing and he is not one of those who involve the 6th Gen project)

What he think is, with now the stealth technology is reaching maturity, the stealth techonology will mostly retain the 5th Generation level. However, there will be a major upgrade on Engine,while Jet Turbine Engine will maintain idle thrust with at least 65% of the engine power while unuse, the new 6th Gen engine will be computer managed and hence perform like a automobile engine. Which translate to save fuel when the engine is cruising and use those fuel to extent the service range. The so call Linear Engine Technology has always been developing since late 90s and have certian fruit coming form the seed. We will most likely see the linear engine been use in a 6th gen aircraft

Also will have improvment is the Thrust vectoring technology, with computer control, TVT are going to be 3 dimensional (Kind of like the X-29) and able to withhold a certain degree of VTOL Capacity fully loaded.

The airframe itself will also be upgrade from the 5th gen. The airframe will be stealth, but will made from a material that adapt to the surrounding enviroment. There is a open prospect that the airfram will self-heal which act like the bladder tank that seal the hole when puncture. No information are available at the moment. The Airframe may also use a more adaptive or flexible material so it could absorb the damage done by the enemy missile.

There will also be a very big change inside the cockpit too, with newer Head up display technology, it's estimated the 6th Gen will not have dashboard, nor stick, all control are within the reach of the Pilot Hemlet and all the necessary data are pipe thru the pilot helmet as well.

The defensive mechanism will be using active counter measurement, either by DEW or cluster missile to destroy incoming enemy missile, while the latest DEW demostration show they can use to destroy a drone, it's very likely the 6 Gen will ulitise this as their defensive mechanis.

There will also be a update on the C3link and create the battlefield awareness that include all the information provided by all allied or friendly aircraft. Either using a supporting computer system to priority and attack target according to the preset priority or using a Computer/Human interface which will see the pilot did the work.

All in all, 6th Generation aircraft will be on the forefront of human technology, while act alone with only limited offensive and defensive power, but act as a group it will be act as a force multiplier. Which is what an aircraft engineer looking up for the 6th Gen Technology

You live in LUND city of sweden?

Do you know what does LUND means in urdu?

 

[jhungary]

The F 35 production lines are rumored to manufacture one aircraft a day, so yes I am getting what you are saying here - besides the years of experience of actually operating a 5th gen will make it much easier obviously.

People need to know this, even with Full production rate of 5th Gen fighter, your country need to adapt to it, 5th gen ffighter is not maintained like any 4th gen fighter, you need to give it time to problem proof your 5th gen fighter, so you are right, while all other country currently developing 5th gen but none of those country know what they got into. US on the otherhand have been operate F-22 since 2000 and it give them 12 year to play with 5th gen technology and the intergration time for F-35 into USAF will be significant shorter than any other country in this world currently producing 5th Gen fighter

The look I think will be totally different to the F 22 or the YF 23, a 6th according to my estimates will be able to take up multiple roles anti ground, anti ship, anti sub, besides the usual and will most probably be a hypersonic craft - just a guess.

WHat it would like will not be anywhere near F-22 and i said YF-23 because it will look more like a bomber than a fighter.
I have my doubts about it being completely AI.

Me too, but you don't need AI to get a good computer controlled program.
This is enough to spin my head, nano tech to repair in flight - that's something to look out for.

But realistically I think as you mentioned in your first post - something similar to a car tyre - maybe the composites might seal the damage.

Realistically, it will be a film like sustance which is liquid in natural existence but will change shape and states when needed to be,, again, Mercury is one of the potential candidate. We cannot rule out nano-technology as you are talking about 10-20 years ahead, gods know what the world will becoming then...

Apparently, they also used Growlers during the Abottabad raid.

Yes, and a E-3 and E8 Survey aircraft, also do you know Growler mean female genital in british slang?

first they need to implement the 5th generation, they havent even replaced the new generation with the new one

You need to start from drawing board with any new generation technology, the time you need to do it is when you can get nothing out of the current technology, which to the US, the time is now.

Well actually this " Self Healing Airframe " idea is currently beyond what material technology can deliver ... So rule this out unless of course USA has a nice few tricks up its sleeves !

Nona-technology are in limited development but who knows what 10-15 years afterward, let's see shall we?

not that exotic, there are plenty of self healing plastic, concrete and composites out, self healing metals are certainly in the works

I am thinking of things more like mercury as polymer is no good for aircraft construction, mercury will be a lot better as it's a metal, but there is one big problem, mercury and aluminium does not mix, (They do and mercury will dissolve aluminium....) Unless they can solve this, they won't be using mercury on any aircraft

According to an old article that I used to read the Japanese already speculated that the next generation of jet fighter will be revolved around "Counter-Stealth"

But I digress the 6th gen or probably the 7th gen will be Drones, Drones and more Drones!. Let us face it there is no more need to put the Pilot in danger

Drone technology, although well developed, still lack of flexability. Basically, what can goes wrong with drone have been gone wrong even today, we will not see 6th gen fighter to be drone, but as with each other generation when they roll out, we hope the next one is.

there is nothing such as stealth........anything that is made of matter cant be stealth...radar is not the only mode to detect airplanes....we can use video cameras and binoculars too....
Pakistan should invest on large video cameras zoomed in and with a very wide field of view...connect them with LCD screens and make a command/observation center or make a separate organistion ...then make softwares so that if a plane is seen on LCD the alarm goes on....we can use the angle of cameras and the time of their detection on LCD screen to determine the location of the plane.........rest is history.

Are you serious? So, if it's so, then i can concluded that London would probably the safest place from airstrike, but then you will know the bomb gonna drop on you, they will stil ldrop if you just stand there and watch and do nothing........

You live in LUND city of sweden?

Do you know what does LUND means in urdu?

Not being a pakistani i don't know, but i do live in Lund, and i can imagine it's something like Intercourse, Pennsylvania

 

[Don Jaguar]

Not being a pakistani i don't know, but i do live in Lund, and i can imagine it's something like Intercourse, Pennsylvania

It means dick.

 

[jhungary]

It means dick.

I would msee there will be problem if you name a pakistani city lund, but i live in sweden, not pakistan.......There are a city call bastard(Bastando) in mexico, while bastando mean enough in spanish...This happen quite a lot