SMIC to the rescue? Huawei shouldn’t hold its breath: experts

[gambit]

It was already an act of unprecedented overreach for US government to dictate to private companies what they can and can't do with equipment they already paid for,...

Consider what we did as in response to China's unprecedented violations of IP related issues. When we supported China's entry into the WTO, it was with the generosity in attitudes that China will play by the rules. China's violations of assorted agreements over the 20 yrs have been so obvious that you guys cannot deny but now actually celebrated as a strategic win. Bully for you that you managed to convinced a naive US presidential administration. I will give you that. Do not even try to portray China as innocent victim. Target? Yes. Victim? Debatable at best. But innocent? Pure bullshit.

The end result could be the end of Huawei's foreign trade, but it could also result in further US isolation. All I have to say is, if the US continues down this path, it will eventually force the world into a choice between a growing, dynamic economy that largely leaves rest of the world alone, and an aggressive, interventionalist military power, much like the first Cold War.

No, the highlighted will not happen. Simply put, China does not have a viable ideological alternative. When it come down to it, any cold war requires ideological contestants and China is not one of them. Who in the First World category wants to be like you? Like it or not, the brutish Orange One have torn away the facade that is the current world order. Clump rampaged thru the China shop and left Comrade Xi in shock. Bump will not be in office forever but his legacy regarding China will last for decades. That growing economy? It will be US.

 

[ILC]

Consider what we did as in response to China's unprecedented violations of IP related issues.

Why should China give its huge market for nothing?

Since 26:50
https://www.asiaseries.ch/events/2019/ronnie-chan/

 

[Han Patriot]

T

Is C/C++ patent?

Sroustrup himself claims there are no C++ related patents

The moment he can sprout something like ban C++ from China, he is already an imbecile. Lol

Why not ban the light bulb or electricity or telephone? You can't save idiocracy

Consider what we did as in response to China's unprecedented violations of IP related issues. When we supported China's entry into the WTO, it was with the generosity in attitudes that China will play by the rules. China's violations of assorted agreements over the 20 yrs have been so obvious that you guys cannot deny but now actually celebrated as a strategic win. Bully for you that you managed to convinced a naive US presidential administration. I will give you that. Do not even try to portray China as innocent victim. Target? Yes. Victim? Debatable at best. But innocent? Pure bullshit.



No, the highlighted will not happen. Simply put, China does not have a viable ideological alternative. When it come down to it, any cold war requires ideological contestants and China is not one of them. Who in the First World category wants to be like you? Like it or not, the brutish Orange One have torn away the facade that is the current world order. Clump rampaged thru the China shop and left Comrade Xi in shock. Bump will not be in office forever but his legacy regarding China will last for decades. That growing economy? It will be US.

Gambit, with all the crap you sprouted, you do realize US is not a real democracy right? Its a kleptocracy disguise as a democracy, with nemerous interest groups controlling the policies which has nothing to do with the betterment of the people. Classic example is investing in wars when your infrastructure is collapsing. You seen the video by mahbubani?

 

[gambit]

The moment he can sprout something like ban C++ from China, he is already an imbecile. Lol

That you thought I meant ban C++ from China means it is YOU who are the true imbecile. Do note that your friend did not make the same mistake that you did because he knew exactly what I meant.

 

[Han Patriot]

That you thought I meant ban C++ from China means it is YOU who are the true imbecile. Do note that your friend did not make the same mistake that you did because he knew exactly what I meant.

Sure sure.. Just like you saying Huawei 5G is not real innovation despite few thousand patents covering that technology locking out US.

 

[gambit]

Sure sure.. Just like you saying Huawei 5G is not real innovation.

It is not. The fact that your friend who have semicon experience, while you do not, did not challenge my comment mean he knows that what I said is true.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

It is an open secret that China has been conducting advanced research in EUVL-Laser Produced Plasma lithography.
I won't be surprised if they have already achieved some level of breakthroughs in overcoming the many challenges.
When that happens, ASML will no longer has the monopoly. We will wait and see.
Anyway SMIC will be starting it's trial production of its 7nm N+1 nodes in the last quarter of 2020. Huawei has plenty of stock and Mediatek as well as Foxconn are more than willing to work with Huawei. They have announced that US new laws have no effects on them. Is TSMC just willing to lost its main customer?
So can USA government win over a Chinese company Huawei?

 

[gambit]

It is an open secret that China has been conducting advanced research in EUVL-Laser Produced Plasma lithography.
I won't be surprised if they have already achieved some level of breakthroughs in overcoming the many challenges.
When that happens, ASML will no longer has the monopoly. We will wait and see.
Anyway SMIC will be starting it's trial production of its 7nm N+1 nodes in the last quarter of 2020. Huawei has plenty of stock and Mediatek as well as Foxconn are more than willing to work with Huawei. They have announced that US new laws have no effects on them. Is TSMC just willing to lost its main customer?
So can USA government win over a Chinese company Huawei?

You are too late on this so-and-so have achieved so-and-so technology. The chain of discussion, by those who have relevant experience, pretty much dismissed this argument for the short term as being beneficial for Huawei. I know you like to suck up to the Chinese but do try to take your time reading the previous comments and follow.

 

[Bilal.]

What is happening right now with Huawei is serving as a warning to others. C++, Python, and Perl, are those Chinese inventions? So what if they are open source? Perhaps you do not know this but because of what is happening with Huawei, legal analysts and computer experts are raging -- behind closed doors -- on what to do if the US government decide to include base programming languages under the umbrella ban on hardware and SOFTWARE.


In sum, the entire article is about how China's model of governance -- authoritarian -- and Huawei's ties to the Party, effectively placed open source software into candidacy for a US government ban. The last paragraph is significant to this discussion.

There is an old gambling adage: Don’t bet against the house. So long as Trump holds office — and does not reverse course on the Huawei ban — Huawei is in China’s house. They will be at the mercy of the Chinese government and market. Large companies by design are adverse to risk, making Huawei very unlikely to do anything that ruffles the government’s feathers. This means we are likely to see less freedom and less openness, not more.​

That would nuclear and a very unwise move. The scale of it and the repercussions for US would be way beyond what it would hope to achieve. It will threaten not just China but the world in its entirety and would lead to the rest of the world finding common ground and interest with China. Utterly isolating the US and making pretty much everyone deem it as a radioactive partner. Would it be worth it? I honestly don’t think so.

 

[Han Patriot]

That would nuclear and a very unwise move. The scale of it and the repercussions for US would be way beyond what it would hope to achieve. It will threaten not just China but the world in its entirety and would lead to the rest of the world finding common ground and interest with China. Utterly isolating the US and making pretty much everyone deem it as a radioactive partner. Would it be worth it? I honestly don’t think so.

It will be short to medium term pain for China and Huawei but just like the recent WHO fiasco, Europe is not happy with China but Trump's action made China look like an angel. Pretty stupid if you ask me, had he have an ounce of Obama, China would have been toasted. Lolol

Anyway, Huawei will have to bide her time while we go full power with EUV. Prototype is already there, the concern is how to ramp it up.

It is not. The fact that your friend who have semicon experience, while you do not, did not challenge my comment mean he knows that what I said is true.

Then explain to me why it's not? Innovation is not just inventing light bulbs or tangible products genius. It could be a new method to achieve something with a different method. My friend? So my friend is the yardstick to define tech? So 20bil$ invested in R&D is now useless based on the statement of one genius who knows stealth semiconductors and the universe. Sure, I will believe you, with such immense 'geniusity', wht tf are you lurking in a PAKISTANI forum for? Lololol

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

You are too late on this so-and-so have achieved so-and-so technology. The chain of discussion, by those who have relevant experience, pretty much dismissed this argument for the short term as being beneficial for Huawei. I know you like to suck up to the Chinese but do try to take your time reading the previous comments and follow.

What experiences have you got in the first place apart from all the despicable anti-China BS you have been posting in in here.
A complete waste of our time.
Huawei P40 is still on track with Hisilicon Kirin 1020 and will be launched as schedule.

It will be short to medium term pain for China and Huawei but just like the recent WHO fiasco, Europe is not happy with China but Trump's action made China look like an angel. Pretty stupid if you ask me, had he have an ounce of Obama, China would have been toasted. Lolol

Anyway, Huawei will have to bide her time while we go full power with EUV. Prototype is already there, the concern is how to ramp it up.


Then explain to me why it's not? Innovation is not just inventing light bulbs or tangible products genius. It could be a new method to achieve something with a different method. My friend? So my friend is the yardstick to define tech? So 20bil$ invested in R&D is now useless based on the statement of one genius who knows stealth semiconductors and the universe. Sure, I will believe you, with such immense 'geniusity', wht tf are you lurking in a PAKISTANI forum for? Lololol

One sentence to say it all.
China is *unstoppable.*
That is what is frustrating TRUMP and all his misguided fanboy in here.
Something is wrong with USA or TRUMP.

 

[letsrock]

What is happening right now with Huawei is serving as a warning to others. C++, Python, and Perl, are those Chinese inventions? So what if they are open source? Perhaps you do not know this but because of what is happening with Huawei, legal analysts and computer experts are raging -- behind closed doors -- on what to do if the US government decide to include base programming languages under the umbrella ban on hardware and SOFTWARE.


In sum, the entire article is about how China's model of governance -- authoritarian -- and Huawei's ties to the Party, effectively placed open source software into candidacy for a US government ban. The last paragraph is significant to this discussion.

There is an old gambling adage: Don’t bet against the house. So long as Trump holds office — and does not reverse course on the Huawei ban — Huawei is in China’s house. They will be at the mercy of the Chinese government and market. Large companies by design are adverse to risk, making Huawei very unlikely to do anything that ruffles the government’s feathers. This means we are likely to see less freedom and less openness, not more.​

See that ? Huawei is in China's house. IF the software ban extends to base programming languages, practically everything TSMC, SMIC, and anyone that can do for Huawei will be for naught, which mean Huawei's foreign market is essentially doomed. Right now, the speculation is damaged, but IF the software ban is clearly specified to include base programming languages, it is doomed.

As Huawei struggles, Huawei's assets, intellectual and physical, will be considered too valuable to lose, so The Party will execute a hostile takeover of the company to save everything, further cementing the world's perception that there is no independence of any kind in China.

Yeah...Am speculating again, here. Wanna bet against that? It is a rhetorical question because we both know the answer: No, you will not bet against. You know better. When I said 'You know better', I was not being sarcastic or facetious in any way. I said that out of respect for your claim to have semicon experience, which I will take at face value.

You know better but you kept silent to protect your fellow Chinese nonsensical arguments.

what restrict open software ? hahahahahaha ...Pretty sure gambit will claim Trump will license english language as well because it is used by china. everytime chinese type an english word you gotta pay trump a dollar in licensing fee and promise not to compete.

What a ridiculous troll.

 

[ILC]

They can ban github e.g.

 

[letsrock]

They can ban github e.g.

They cannot in any meaningful way. how do you mean "ban github" ? they can pull down servers and restrict access but thats literally shooting in the foot. its like america imposing restrictions on its own voice because on paronia that others can use its own voice against itself. its crazy and US wont stand for such nonsense.

This guy gambit atleast to me appears to be an Indian. He was actually claiming that a ban can be imposed on programming languages . he has no idea what he is talking about. And I dont believe he stands for american interests.Just vindictive hate towards china. Written in narcisstic, wrathful style - a hallmark of indian trolls.

 

[Journeyman]

All semiconductor machineries are produced by European and Japanese and those are U.S allies. The U.S can easily influence the European and Japanese for not selling to china any of those machineries and china semiconductor industry (which is in its infant state) will stand still. The U.S can also reimburse the Japanese and European makers for the number of machineries that China want to buy in order to stop china semiconductor industry (again, just in its infant state) from making any progress. SMIC can only produce chips for the Chinese in the foreseeable future as it will not have the ability to buy new tools. Business is about cutting the other's guy throat and drive him out of the market with any kind of tactics and the Chinese is really good at this and now they will have a taste of their own medicine.