Singapore Airforce Equiped with Lattest Tech In Asia

[tanlixiang28776]

Till china has anything in line with their F-15 variants and their F-2s which fly around with AESA radars they hold the technological advantage. Also isn't the back bone of the Chinese air force still J-7s not really much of a point to be critical of their F-4s Especially since they can carry their anti-ship missiles. Being self efficiency doesn't mean you automatically hold the advantage if your self efficiency is behind in tech(Iran is a example of this). Comparing the navies shows even a larger gap with japan operating the 96 cell Atago class with AGESIS CMS and Submarines with sterling AIP propulsion. Not to mention the country in question has the sole superpower behind it as a arms supplier.

I think China's capabilities are being blown out of proportion. They are breaking into the modern aspect of defense arms through self efficiency but the bulk of their current force is still outdated.

You are correct. However obsolete China's equipment is it can be replaced very quickly by very advanced indigenous weapons if necessary.

We have the budget but we want to leapfrog previous generations until we can replace the vast majority of older systems.

China's military is enormous and our budget in comparison is tiny. Until our budget reaches parity with U.S. we can not have the latest toys deployed in mass.

We have the capability but not enough of a threat to deploy them in mass. Current capabilities are overblown but future capabilities are underestimated.

 

[Jigs]

You are correct. However obsolete China's equipment is it can be replaced very quickly by very advanced indigenous weapons if necessary.

We have the budget but we want to leapfrog previous generations until we can replace the vast majority of older systems.

China's military is enormous and our budget in comparison is tiny. Until our budget reaches parity with U.S. we can not have the latest toys deployed in mass.

We have the capability but not enough of a threat to deploy them in mass. Current capabilities are overblown but future capabilities are underestimated.

China is modernizing very quickly and at this point no country could defeat it conventionally really. The only part lacking is the technological solutions that would put it in line with SK or Japan from that standpoint. In due time that will come but your probably right about it being a budget issue. R&D has to now replace the reverse engineer and upgrade mindset. I would think heavy government investment in domestic companies would speed this up.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

China is modernizing very quickly and at this point no country could defeat it conventionally really. The only part lacking is the technological solutions that would put it in line with SK or Japan from that standpoint. In due time that will come but your probably right about it being a budget issue. R&D has to now replace the reverse engineer and upgrade mindset. I would think heavy government investment in domestic companies would speed this up.

Unimportant things not worth the budget are usually reverse engineered and slightly improved.

Latest systems are entirely indigenous however

J 20
type 52C
type 99A2
type 54A
type 094
type 093
type 041
WS 2
DF 41
DF 21D
DH 10
YJ 63
WZ 10
J 10B
Shenlong

etc.....

these are the important weapons that need the budget.

Japanese and Korean technology is all American. By themselves they are incapable of producing jet fighters, Aegis Ships, and BMDs

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

Well, currently China spends about 3.5% of its GDP on defence so that is already the 2end largest!!


By 2020, all PLAAF will be J-10A/B, J-11B, SU-30MKK/MKK2, J-20, JH-7A.

About 2000, modern 4, 4.5, 5, generation aircrafts.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Well, currently China spends about 3.5% of its GDP on defence so that is already the 2end largest!!


By 2020, all PLAAF will be J-10A/B, J-11B, SU-30MKK/MKK2, J-20, JH-7A.

About 2000, modern 4, 4.5, 5, generation aircrafts.

Official budget is 1.5% at 78 billion dollars. Estimates are around 100 billion dollars to 200 billion dollars.

 

[below_freezing]

Till china has anything in line with their F-15 variants and their F-2s which fly around with AESA radars they hold the technological advantage. Also isn't the back bone of the Chinese air force still J-7s not really much of a point to be critical of their F-4s Especially since they can carry their anti-ship missiles. Being self efficiency doesn't mean you automatically hold the advantage if your self efficiency is behind in tech(Iran is a example of this). Comparing the navies shows even a larger gap with japan operating the 96 cell Atago class with AGESIS CMS and Submarines with sterling AIP propulsion. Not to mention the country in question has the sole superpower behind it as a arms supplier.

I think China's capabilities are being blown out of proportion. They are breaking into the modern aspect of defense arms through self efficiency but the bulk of their current force is still outdated.

Yes it does actually. Can any of these countries overhaul their engines without US aid? Other than Japan (and Japan only since 1999) can their other countries even make their own missiles? This directly affects their ability to sorty.

AESA radar on Japanese F-15? Even the US's F-15Cs have only been started to upgrade to AESA radar in 2009, you think Japan can upgrade their F-15s before their master does? Even with the AESA radar on their F-2, the useful detection range is already similar.

Modern Fighter Aircraft Radars - a knol by Vijainder K Thakur

In addition, I don't see the significant difference between a 96 cell launcher and a 48 cell launcher. Both 052C and Atago have enough missiles to matter and the detection range of both the 052C's Type 517M and the AEGIS AN/SPY-1 are comparable; the Type 052C's detection distance is 330 km while the AN/SPY-1 is at least 100 nm = 190 km. And what use is their navy except for defense? It can't go on the offense without land attack cruise missiles.

AN/SPY-1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Type 052C destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And furthermore, F-4s have already been proven to be a flying coffin with their record during the Vietnam War.

Bulk also doesn't mean much, the "good" planes in our inventory already outnumber the "good" planes of all other east asian countries added together, and we still have our "bad" planes. In addition, air combat is a systems engineering problem, not simply smashing planes against each ohter and seeing who has better numbers. We can win in that too but in terms of the overall combat system and institutional experience there's no one in Asia that has more than the PLAAF.

 

[Jigs]

Yes it does actually. Can any of these countries overhaul their engines without US aid? Other than Japan (and Japan only since 1999) can their other countries even make their own missiles? This directly affects their ability to sorty.

Why does it matter when its outdated and not modern. If someone makes 1,000 M60s and the country its at war against goes out and buys 300 Leopard 2A6s tell me who has the advantage there ?

AESA radar on Japanese F-15? Even the US's F-15Cs have only been started to upgrade to AESA radar in 2009, you think Japan can upgrade their F-15s before their master does? Even with the AESA radar on their F-2, the useful detection range is already similar.

China has no AESA equipped aircraft while all Japanese F-2s have it along with flir integration which shows that the Japanese have sensor fusion on their aircraft ( i never said their F-15s had them though they do carry SAR mapping pods) In addition to having latest variant of AIM-120s. BTW the F-2s that are in operation are ahead of what the U.S. operates. Same goes for the UAE F-16s and Possibly ones that will come into India for the MRCA. The U.S. is currently phasing their F-16 fleet out to bringing in the F-35 rather then overhauling the fleet for upgrades.

J-10 Is the most advanced aircraft currently in operation and it is not on par with the F-15s or the F-2s. Same goes for armament.

In addition, I don't see the significant difference between a 96 cell launcher and a 48 cell launcher. Both 052C and Atago have enough missiles to matter and the detection range of both the 052C's Type 517M and the AEGIS AN/SPY-1 are comparable; the Type 052C's detection distance is 330 km while the AN/SPY-1 is at least 100 nm = 190 km. And what use is their navy except for defense? It can't go on the offense without land attack cruise missiles.

They are not comparable sorry and this is the type of thinking i was talking. AEGIS CMS is far superior to anything China or Russia have. Having more VLS cells mean you can intercept more and be offensive along with carrying a larger assortment of armaments. These ships do not launch a couple missiles they can launch their whole arsenal in a short period of time at multiple targets. The japanese Kongo class is based right off the Arleigh Burke destroyer and the atago is a improved version of that and these are loaded with SM-3s which are one of the most capable missiles in the world(having shot moving satellites out of space and have ranges of more then half a thousand kilometers (on older variants) and these operate off the most advanced combat management system in the world. Do you truly believe china is at at point where they can match the U.S. in software, Hardware and weapons systems that are on their destroyers and cruisers . Because that is what your claiming here.

AN/SPY-1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Type 052C destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wiki ? that is not going to give you anything on the real perimeters of these radars.

And furthermore, F-4s have already been proven to be a flying coffin with their record during the Vietnam War.

Huh ? Almost all F-4s that were lost in the Vietnam war was due to AAA/SAM very few were lost to fighter aircraft.

During the course of the Vietnam war Phantoms shot down 107 MiGs out of a total of 137 brought down during the conflict while MiGs shot down 33 phantoms total

Bulk also doesn't mean much, the "good" planes in our inventory already outnumber the "good" planes of all other east asian countries added together, and we still have our "bad" planes. In addition, air combat is a systems engineering problem, not simply smashing planes against each ohter and seeing who has better numbers. We can win in that too but in terms of the overall combat system and institutional experience there's no one in Asia that has more than the PLAAF.

Couple hundred J-10s ? Maybe 3 hundred. These are not on par with the latest F-16s especially the ones operated by Japan. Also F-15s.

 

[ViXuyen]

Huh ? Almost all F-4s that were lost in the Vietnam war was due to AAA/SAM very few were lost to fighter aircraft.

Overall Migs still shot down more U.S aircrafts than they lost

 

[ViXuyen]

They are not comparable sorry and this is the type of thinking i was talking. AEGIS CMS is far superior to anything China or Russia have. Having more VLS cells mean you can intercept more and be offensive along with carrying a larger assortment of armaments. These ships do not launch a couple missiles they can launch their whole arsenal in a short period of time at multiple targets. The japanese Kongo class is based right off the Arleigh Burke destroyer and the atago is a improved version of that and these are loaded with SM-3s which are one of the most capable missiles in the world(having shot moving satellites out of space and have ranges of more then half a thousand kilometers (on older variants) and these operate off the most advanced combat management system in the world. Do you truly believe china is at at point where they can match the U.S. in software, Hardware and weapons systems that are on their destroyers and cruisers . Because that is what your claiming here.

I once read this article that explains in detail how the Aegis shield can easily be punched through by just a couple of anti-ship supersonic missiles launched once at them. The reason is that the ship's radar does not permit it to guide a bunch of missiles toward the incoming missiles at once. There is a time lapse that (even in favor of the ship in this analysis) that the missiles have to "take turn" to wait for the radar to guide them. Hope I can find the article back.

 

[below_freezing]

Why does it matter when its outdated and not modern. If someone makes 1,000 M60s and the country its at war against goes out and buys 300 Leopard 2A6s tell me who has the advantage there ?



China has no AESA equipped aircraft while all Japanese F-2s have it along with flir integration which shows that the Japanese have sensor fusion on their aircraft ( i never said their F-15s had them though they do carry SAR mapping pods) In addition to having latest variant of AIM-120s. BTW the F-2s that are in operation are ahead of what the U.S. operates. Same goes for the UAE F-16s and Possibly ones that will come into India for the MRCA. The U.S. is currently phasing their F-16 fleet out to bringing in the F-35 rather then overhauling the fleet for upgrades.

J-10 Is the most advanced aircraft currently in operation and it is not on par with the F-15s or the F-2s. Same goes for armament.





They are not comparable sorry and this is the type of thinking i was talking. AEGIS CMS is far superior to anything China or Russia have. Having more VLS cells mean you can intercept more and be offensive along with carrying a larger assortment of armaments. These ships do not launch a couple missiles they can launch their whole arsenal in a short period of time at multiple targets. The japanese Kongo class is based right off the Arleigh Burke destroyer and the atago is a improved version of that and these are loaded with SM-3s which are one of the most capable missiles in the world(having shot moving satellites out of space and have ranges of more then half a thousand kilometers (on older variants) and these operate off the most advanced combat management system in the world. Do you truly believe china is at at point where they can match the U.S. in software, Hardware and weapons systems that are on their destroyers and cruisers . Because that is what your claiming here.



Wiki ? that is not going to give you anything on the real perimeters of these radars.



Huh ? Almost all F-4s that were lost in the Vietnam war was due to AAA/SAM very few were lost to fighter aircraft.






Couple hundred J-10s ? Maybe 3 hundred. These are not on par with the latest F-16s especially the ones operated by Japan. Also F-15s.

J-10 is the most advanced light fighter in our inventory but to say it is most advanced overall is questionable. Small fighters are limited by range. The J-11 is a heavy fighter in the F-15 class. The Japanese radar's useful detection range is similar to the Pulse Doppler radar. Air combat is a systems engineering problem, it is not slamming fighters against one another. Most countries don't seem to realize that though and believe air combat is slamming planes against each other and comparing numbers. Being unable to indigenously maintain engines means the sorty rate decreases, possibly significantly in the case of parts delays.

The Atago going on the offense is a joke. How is it going to go on the offense? Sail to China and launch its 100 km range missiles? Our ships can launch land attack cruise missiles, Japan doesn't even have them. 48 cells vs. 96 cells is not important, what is important is the radar and detection which ours, based on open sources, are comparable in range. Naval combat is also a systems engineering problem and not just slamming ships against one another.

As for the software and hardware of the AEGIS, you don't even know what they are so how do we compare?

Your worship of the US with little evidence is a joke and shows your inferiority complex.

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

Official budget is 1.5% at 78 billion dollars. Estimates are around 100 billion dollars to 200 billion dollars.

lol, if you believe that, fine.

I do not. China is a communist country and under threat from mutilple fronts. US, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, India. You name it.

Right now China spends about 3.5 % of its GDP and it is VERY REASONABLE! USA spends 4.5% of its GDP and it is in recession.

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

China has no AESA equipped aircraft while all Japanese F-2s have it along with flir integration which shows that the Japanese have sensor fusion on their aircraft ( i never said their F-15s had them though they do carry SAR mapping pods) In addition to having latest variant of AIM-120s. BTW the F-2s that are in operation are ahead of what the U.S. operates. Same goes for the UAE F-16s and Possibly ones that will come into India for the MRCA. The U.S. is currently phasing their F-16 fleet out to bringing in the F-35 rather then overhauling the fleet for upgrades.

J-10 Is the most advanced aircraft currently in operation and it is not on par with the F-15s or the F-2s. Same goes for armament.





They are not comparable sorry and this is the type of thinking i was talking. AEGIS CMS is far superior to anything China or Russia have. Having more VLS cells mean you can intercept more and be offensive along with carrying a larger assortment of armaments. These ships do not launch a couple missiles they can launch their whole arsenal in a short period of time at multiple targets. The japanese Kongo class is based right off the Arleigh Burke destroyer and the atago is a improved version of that and these are loaded with SM-3s which are one of the most capable missiles in the world(having shot moving satellites out of space and have ranges of more then half a thousand kilometers (on older variants) and these operate off the most advanced combat management system in the world. Do you truly believe china is at at point where they can match the U.S. in software, Hardware and weapons systems that are on their destroyers and cruisers . Because that is what your claiming here.



Wiki ? that is not going to give you anything on the real perimeters of these radars.



Huh ? Almost all F-4s that were lost in the Vietnam war was due to AAA/SAM very few were lost to fighter aircraft.






Couple hundred J-10s ? Maybe 3 hundred. These are not on par with the latest F-16s especially the ones operated by Japan. Also F-15s.[/QUOTE]




China does have AESA equibed fighters. J-10B already has them!

 

[GUNS-N- ROSES]

Singapore is a very very very small country, rather only a city, bit it is very rich. It has highest per capita income in entire ASIA and had almost 120Billion USD in reserve back in 2007.

Small as it is, they lack depth to test and train their aircraft acquisitions and rely on Indonesia to permit them to use their airspace to fly "straight". Its a bit funny, i know, but that's the truth as well. While in Singapore, i never saw a single fighter or military transport aircraft fly straight. All i saw were C130s and F5s flying in circles, and seeing hours and hours of circling aircraft was VERY-BORING.

Singapore train their pilots in Australia and USA, which frankly isn't enough. but a country 40 miles by 60 miles doesn't have space for air warfare simulation, let alone ground attack simulation. But they indeed have great war-birds and latest weapons to complement the training deficit.

Singapore, S. Korea, Japan, Taiwan and to some extent Israel are proxy US power to safeguard US's interest in their respective regions. Singapore takes care of Asia-Pacific, S. Korea takes care of N. Korea, Japan+Taiwan+S.Korea collectively take care of China. Not forgetting that NATO takes care of Russian mammoth. Just like Pakistan safeguarded its interest against communist Afghanistan.

USA gives away a lot of equipment and money to these nations to safeguard its Super Power status while itself staying away from the region itself and saving a lot of frenzy. It is a very well thought out strategy and is working very well in US's interest.

Regards,
Sapper

@sapper, singapore also has defence cooperation pact with india where singaporean air force pilots regularly come to india and practice manoeuvres and combat with indian air force. just a lil peice of info i thought i l share with u.

regards.

 

[Whiplash]

Every country in East Asia except China imports weapons. Therefore they cannot be strong. Strength is never bought, it is earned.

Japan is nothing. No large AWAC, no tankers, no bombers, still using ancient F-4s and most of all no indigenous aerospace capability or even the ability to acquire aerospace capability - they lack full scale supersonic wind tunnels needed to conduct aerodynamics experiments.

China does import Russian weapons. Japan does make the F2 indigenously, and some awesome tanks. And you guys still operate F7s. Period.

 

[Whiplash]

China has no AESA equipped aircraft while all Japanese F-2s have it along with flir integration which shows that the Japanese have sensor fusion on their aircraft ( i never said their F-15s had them though they do carry SAR mapping pods) In addition to having latest variant of AIM-120s. BTW the F-2s that are in operation are ahead of what the U.S. operates. Same goes for the UAE F-16s and Possibly ones that will come into India for the MRCA. The U.S. is currently phasing their F-16 fleet out to bringing in the F-35 rather then overhauling the fleet for upgrades.

J-10 Is the most advanced aircraft currently in operation and it is not on par with the F-15s or the F-2s. Same goes for armament.





They are not comparable sorry and this is the type of thinking i was talking. AEGIS CMS is far superior to anything China or Russia have. Having more VLS cells mean you can intercept more and be offensive along with carrying a larger assortment of armaments. These ships do not launch a couple missiles they can launch their whole arsenal in a short period of time at multiple targets. The japanese Kongo class is based right off the Arleigh Burke destroyer and the atago is a improved version of that and these are loaded with SM-3s which are one of the most capable missiles in the world(having shot moving satellites out of space and have ranges of more then half a thousand kilometers (on older variants) and these operate off the most advanced combat management system in the world. Do you truly believe china is at at point where they can match the U.S. in software, Hardware and weapons systems that are on their destroyers and cruisers . Because that is what your claiming here.



Wiki ? that is not going to give you anything on the real perimeters of these radars.



Huh ? Almost all F-4s that were lost in the Vietnam war was due to AAA/SAM very few were lost to fighter aircraft.






Couple hundred J-10s ? Maybe 3 hundred. These are not on par with the latest F-16s especially the ones operated by Japan. Also F-15s.

China does have AESA equibed fighters. J-10B already has them! [/QUOTE]

Typing in red color with a huge font size does not make me right

There has never been official confirmation of AESA on J10B. And the f16 block 60s are bad . Western avionics are far superior than anything we have on the east.