Sikh families leave Orakzai after Taliban demand jizia

[pakpower]

Ya that's true.

But i think there are lot of Pakistani's who support Taliban. In this site also there are people who support Taliban.

Can you them dude ?

 

[shravan]

Can you them dude ?

I no mai Englesh Sucks. ...

 

[Elmo]

@ Moscow: well yes no one knows for sure because people who know the nitty-gritties aren't on this forum and the rest are resorting to copy paste.

Why not try Googling it yourself as well.

This discussion isn't useless, just giving people a forum to express their views. Some are no doubt highly offensive and below the belt, but one can't control every other person's thought process.

 

[Moscow]

highly appreciate it miss but the present situation and the nitty-gritties are not available on the net what you find on google is a biased opinion depending on who wrote the article, if its an american he will blast it and if he is a taliban sympathy man he will try to prove it as the best thing on earth.

my only question is if people are not even sure of what the ground reality is as you have said on this forum them its better not to discuss personal opinions and take it to be the truth and try to prove it, the truth is somewhere in between.

also i raised this question on another thread why did the goverment of pakistan delay the implementation of sharia law on the provinces on which it had local support on it? why did they need the taliban to point out the fact isnt the govement of pakistan above all other agencies there.?
what happening is pakistan is loosing its soverignity dont you accept this truth with me ?
its now two separate regimes which run the country one the GOP and other the taliban both of them have different tax regimes and laws can you even consider the consequences when they start opposing each other if not now then in next 2-5 years where will pakistan stand wont there be a civil war wont the pakistani population suffer then ....
what do you say to this am i right here or not ?

 

[TOPGUN]

This is gone way to far harasing people ,killing people,robbing people this must be stopped by this dumb govt!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

oh c'mon roadrunner there is no way even west pakistan had 97% muslim population before partition infact it's impossible coz if that was true then how do you account for the mohajirs who came after partition and added to the muslim population and the number of hindus/sikhs who've left decreasing the non-muslim populatation even further ?
The only way muslims and non-muslim pop percentage could have remained exactly the same in the past 62 years is if your telling me no more muslims came in since partition and no hindus or sikhs left west pakistan and thats absolutely not true.

I am not sure about a 97% Muslim majority before partition, but i think the point RR was making is that a lot of Indians raise this canard of 'Non-Muslims went from 20% to 5%' in Pakistan, as an example of some sort of 'genocidal or discriminatory' policy by Pakistan.

The fact is that the 20% non-Muslims number was inclusive of both East and West Pakistan. West Pakistan had a lower percentage of non-Muslims (Hindu and Sikh) to begin with, and this percentage was further affected by the migrations of millions of non-Muslims out of Pakistan and millions of Muslims into Pakistan.

So the demographics of West Pakistan were primarily changed as a result of the migration in and out of West Pakistan during migration, and not as a result of some sort of genocide or widespread discrimination', which is what that particular canard suggests.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Some estimates of the number of people that migrated range up to 14.5 million.

The 1951 census indicated that Pakistan's population was about 33 million.

Wiki suggests that about 7 million refugees settled in Pakistani Punjab and Sindh, and an equivalent number of refugees migrated to India. Pakistan's population in 1941 (the census that indicates a higher number of non-muslims in Pakistan) was likely lower than that in 1951 (33 million) so the impact of the Muslim refugees coming in and the non-Muslims leaving, on the proportion of non-Muslims in West Pakistan, can be clearly extrapolated from this data.

Back to the thread topic please.

 

[afriend]

I am not sure about a 97% Muslim majority before partition, but i think the point RR was making is that a lot of Indians raise this canard of 'Non-Muslims went from 20% to 5%' in Pakistan, as an example of some sort of 'genocidal or discriminatory' policy by Pakistan.

The fact is that the 20% non-Muslims number was inclusive of both East and West Pakistan. West Pakistan had a lower percentage of non-Muslims (Hindu and Sikh) to begin with, and this percentage was further affected by the migrations of millions of non-Muslims out of Pakistan and millions of Muslims into Pakistan.

So the demographics of West Pakistan were primarily changed as a result of the migration in and out of West Pakistan during migration, and not as a result of some sort of genocide or widespread discrimination', which is what that particular canard suggests.

Well the fact is, discrimination exists, and the pakistani hindus, who are living in and around haryana and u.p and rajasthan are really a living proof for that.
20% to 1.5% of the total population,why they migrated is a question..!! it doesnt show the tolerance of the religious majority in pakistan, . And from the interviews i had heard from the pakistani immigrant, is that, they had been forced out by the taliban from swat, but then again, the next obvious question was why not immigrate to any where else in pakistan, well that the answer should be obvoius, they dont feel safe in pakistan. And i am not talking about 1947 but the recent times.

Hindu migrants from Pak complain of ill-treatment by local authorities - Express India

And the above is story of hindu migration from karachi..!!!!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well the fact is, discrimination exists, and the pakistani hindus, who are living in and around haryana and u.p and rajasthan are really a living proof for that.
20% to 1.5% of the total population,why they migrated is a question..!! it doesnt show the tolerance of the religious majority in pakistan, .

Discrimination exists everywhere to varying degrees, which does not mean it is justified, but to single out Pakistan for it as some Indians like to do by distorting statistics, is disingenuous.

Let me remind you that an equal number of Muslims migrated from India into Pakistan, as did non-Muslims to India, and atrocities and massacres were committed by non-Muslims upon the Muslims in India as well as the Muslims migrating into Pakistan. So lets not pretend that India was any better than Pakistan during the partition.

The tens of millions of Muslims who migrated from India and their descendants are living proof of that.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Back to the topic please.

 

[Elmo]

highly appreciate it miss but the present situation and the nitty-gritties are not available on the net what you find on google is a biased opinion depending on who wrote the article, if its an american he will blast it and if he is a taliban sympathy man he will try to prove it as the best thing on earth.

my only question is if people are not even sure of what the ground reality is as you have said on this forum them its better not to discuss personal opinions and take it to be the truth and try to prove it, the truth is somewhere in between.

also i raised this question on another thread why did the goverment of pakistan delay the implementation of sharia law on the provinces on which it had local support on it? why did they need the taliban to point out the fact isnt the govement of pakistan above all other agencies there.?
what happening is pakistan is loosing its soverignity dont you accept this truth with me ?
its now two separate regimes which run the country one the GOP and other the taliban both of them have different tax regimes and laws can you even consider the consequences when they start opposing each other if not now then in next 2-5 years where will pakistan stand wont there be a civil war wont the pakistani population suffer then ....
what do you say to this am i right here or not ?

I can only make an attempt at answering your questions, so here it goes:

1. "also i raised this question on another thread why did the goverment of pakistan delay the implementation of sharia law on the provinces on which it had local support on it?"
Because it really doesn't want to hand over power to the Islamists. Remember in Pakistan you have multiple interpretation of a single verse, so whose version will they adopt and follow without doubt, that's a difficult task.

2. why did they need the taliban to point out the fact isnt the govement of pakistan above all other agencies there.?
Well the Taliban are just a cog in the wheel. The Taliban are using force, against which the army is reluctant to retaliate. They haven't pointed out anything except trying to enforce a brand of Sharia which they are themselves uncomfortable living under. Read BBC reporter Syed Shoaib Hasan's article on the implementation of Sharia in Swat to know how some of them are disgruntled with the process.

3. what happening is pakistan is loosing its soverignity dont you accept this truth with me ?....they start opposing each other if not now then in next 2-5 years where will pakistan stand wont there be a civil war wont the pakistani population suffer then ....
what do you say to this am i right here or not ?"

I actually agree with your statement. There is a civil war of sorts going on in the country whether the state or the military admits it or not. The writ of the government has been lost at one too many places.

 

[Elmo]

Back to the topic please.

The forum's time needs to be updated according to the new daylight saving time in Pakistan.

 

[Moscow]

I can only make an attempt at answering your questions, so here it goes:

1. "also i raised this question on another thread why did the goverment of pakistan delay the implementation of sharia law on the provinces on which it had local support on it?"
Because it really doesn't want to hand over power to the Islamists. Remember in Pakistan you have multiple interpretation of a single verse, so whose version will they adopt and follow without doubt, that's a difficult task.

2. why did they need the taliban to point out the fact isnt the govement of pakistan above all other agencies there.?
Well the Taliban are just a cog in the wheel. The Taliban are using force, against which the army is reluctant to retaliate. They haven't pointed out anything except trying to enforce a brand of Sharia which they are themselves uncomfortable living under. Read BBC reporter Syed Shoaib Hasan's article on the implementation of Sharia in Swat to know how some of them are disgruntled with the process.

3. what happening is pakistan is loosing its soverignity dont you accept this truth with me ?....they start opposing each other if not now then in next 2-5 years where will pakistan stand wont there be a civil war wont the pakistani population suffer then ....
what do you say to this am i right here or not ?"

I actually agree with your statement. There is a civil war of sorts going on in the country whether the state or the military admits it or not. The writ of the government has been lost at one too many places.

thanks for the answer miss now here is my POV.

1. you said GOP didnt want to hand over power to the islamists so they didnt implement the sharia law before when it means now the GOP has failed to curb these islamists and has given in to their demands which in a bigger context implies that Pakistani administration has lost to the influence of the taliban its a defeat for pakistan itself isnt it so there is no need for denial or trying justify the decision after they have lost.the version you ssaid implies that taliban can now implement the version of sharia that they deem fit and who will counter them whether this version of sharia is the correct one or not ?


2.miss you say the taliban is just a cogwheel but i differ on that its the same force that have defeated the pakistani administration < as explained on my 1st point > so they are no mean fellows now that they have a base they will only grow stronger from here .also you say some of the army elements are not willing to use force on this this is direct acceptance of the stance that the taliban is not just an ordinary power they have a mass following and all of these followers are willing to go against the state and for the taliban isnt this disintegration of some sort?


3. miss thanks for accepting the ground reality which very few acknowledge that pakistan is going towards a civil war and its not good news for the world community.

 

[ANDUBYLL]

Can anyone give me a clear answer to this ?

Did this even happen in territories controlled by Pakistan ?

If yes, then how come common law is superceded by Islamic law and or tribal law? Are both valid in this this part of Pakistan

2) If no, then is this place lost by Pakistan to taleban ?? If so , how much of FATA is actually in the hands of GOP ?

 

[roadrunner]

Look Mr. RoadRunner people here are asking genuine questions and you are trying to hide behind the veil of Hindutva, fantasies etc.

I'm not hiding anywhere.

Your friends brought up the figures of 80% pre-partition Muslims in West Pakistan, which is false.

Why don't you simply answer to moscow's previous post? He raised some valid points and I can guarantee you that Hindutva hasn't 'consumed' Russia yet.

I don't read every post. You think i got nothing better to do?

As far as justification goes, in my country or any other civilized nation for that matter, taxes are collected based on affordability and income, not based on religion.

The point being, and you have failed to read all the posts also yet accuse me of not doing so, that if Muslims are charged the same Zakat tax, this Jizya is not "religion based" (read discriminatory by religion).

So when we hear such stories, it is definitely a shock because it is unique to your part of the world. The least you can do is educate the members here without actually getting into any defensive mudslinging match.

It's a shock is they're not charging any Muslims the same tax. It's not a shock if they are. I have to pay my taxes too. I'm pleased the Sikhs have to pay something too, so long as the Muslims have to pay it also.