Should their be a joint venture with France for a LCH?

[Arsalan]

Do you understand the term (LCH)?

My whole point of this thread is to discuss PA possible answer to IAF acquisition of their own LCH... PA may be able to get 20-30 next generation choppers such as Tigers, T-129 or Z-11 but still they are going to be very small force..
As for Fennec.. the current version of AS 550 can deliver up to 5 fully equipped troops in addition to its Anti-tank, anti-personal role....
now lets see....
IAF will be inducting Armed version of Dhruv, LCH, next generation HAC, and not to forget their current upgraded combat helicopter fleet.
and your answer is.... Z-11 or T-129 and if PA does induct them will take no earlier then 2015... and that only few of them..


The Fennec is a perfect LCH for PA... i would like to see what iranis did with jetrangers.... on Fennec... in simple words.. AS 550 =force multiplier..

i do understand you point!
all i am stating is that the option you have mentioned will be not be possible for us to meet. getting 100 + choppers, even LCH will cost us hell of a money! french are always an expensive option. i dont understand what do you think is wrong with the Z9 armed version or the WZ10, atlest bith of them will be dedicated attack platforms and will better serve our purpose.
i agree that we cannnot expect 40 high tech helo to fulfill the demand of 100+ helicopters but that has always been the case with paistan military purchases. we have always opted for a relatively cheap but effective platform to fill in numbers and a limited number of high tech platforms for high end role. this is the case with JF17 and FC20 project!
now cant we opt for some 40 WZ10 or even 50 - 60 Z9 and complement them with 25 -30 T129 for more delicate tasks! the will almost cost the same as the LCH you have pointed to and will be dedicated attack platforms thus will be much much better!

i hope you get what i was trying to say!

regards!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

i do understand you point!
all i am stating is that the option you have mentioned will be not be possible for us to meet. getting 100 + choppers, even LCH will cost us hell of a money! french are always an expensive option. i dont understand what do you think is wrong with the Z9 armed version or the WZ10, atlest bith of them will be dedicated attack platforms and will better serve our purpose.
i agree that we cannnot expect 40 high tech helo to fulfill the demand of 100+ helicopters but that has always been the case with paistan military purchases. we have always opted for a relatively cheap but effective platform to fill in numbers and a limited number of high tech platforms for high end role. this is the case with JF17 and FC20 project!
now cant we opt for some 40 WZ10 or even 50 - 60 Z9 and complement them with 25 -30 T129 for more delicate tasks! the will almost cost the same as the LCH you have pointed to and will be dedicated attack platforms thus will be much much better!

i hope you get what i was trying to say!

regards!

with all due respect.. dont lose your senses with your blind love affair with China. every this and that answer is not CHINA! we should learn our lessons from the past that we can not just put all our eggs on one basket which was US back in the days...
coming back to the topic... and your major concern is the cost? you think 40 Z-10 60 Z-9 30 T-129 will cost us nothing?
i hope the army is thinking in the same parallel line as i am.. We need light utility/combat helicopter in large numbers.. that should be our response to IAF Dhruv, and LCH..
and btw... 190+ Fennec were offered to india for something like 500 million dollars..

 

[sancho]

We need light utility/combat helicopter in large numbers.. that should be our response to IAF Dhruv, and LCH..
and btw... 190+ Fennec were offered to india for something like 500 million dollars..

Not sure why you need a response to any armed helicopter in IAF, becuase I doubt there will be helicopter combats or something like that. Their main work will be transport and support of ground troops, only the combat helicopters (Mi 35, LCH and maybe Apache) will be used for more offensive missions. Anyway there will be way more than just armed Dhruv, don't forget armed Mi 17 (80 new of them are ordered), as you said 197 LUH most likely the same EC Fennec + 180 LUH that are under development by HAL right now (called light observation helicopter) and I guess they could carry the same arms that Dhruv can carry if needed.
Btw the Chinese Z9C (armed version) is a licence produced Eurocopter Panther, so only a bigger version of the armed Fennec, why not take those?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Not sure why you need a response to any armed helicopter in IAF, becuase I doubt there will be helicopter combats or something like that. Their main work will be transport and support of ground troops, only the combat helicopters (Mi 35, LCH and maybe Apache) will be used for more offensive missions. Anyway there will be way more than just armed Dhruv, don't forget armed Mi 17 (80 new of them are ordered), as you said 197 LUH most likely the same EC Fennec + 180 LUH that are under development by HAL right now (called light observation helicopter) and I guess they could carry the same arms that Dhruv can carry if needed.
Btw the Chinese Z9C (armed version) is a licence produced Eurocopter Panther, so only a bigger version of the armed Fennec, why not take those?

listen... you have to stop acting and admit the fact that PAK and INDIA are in cold war type situation.. if one side makes tanks the other one has to catch up and etc... and dont drag it to your usual off topic indian nonsense.. not interested to listen to your BS..
i have to admit that IAF LCH concept is going to be quite effective if it doesnt turn into another arjunk.. i mean... a small chopper with stealth features able to carry TOW anti-tank missiles and laser guided rockets as well its main gun. the armed version of fennec provides just about that in addition to its light utility capability.

not to forget... PA also has a requirement for 30 next generation combat chopper which could be Z-11 Tiger or T-129... and oh... PA also has 40 AH-1F and the discussion of upgrading them to something like zullu is already underway.. PA is also big time prime user of russian Mi-17.....

 

[Arsalan]

with all due respect.. dont lose your senses with your blind love affair with China. every this and that answer is not CHINA! we should learn our lessons from the past that we can not just put all our eggs on one basket which was US back in the days...
coming back to the topic... and your major concern is the cost? you think 40 Z-10 60 Z-9 30 T-129 will cost us nothing?
i hope the army is thinking in the same parallel line as i am.. We need light utility/combat helicopter in large numbers.. that should be our response to IAF Dhruv, and LCH..
and btw... 190+ Fennec were offered to india for something like 500 million dollars..

oh sir, let us keep it cool! no need to be angry and offensive, i am in no position to go and but the chines equipment anf reject the french ones!
anyway i never said that chines will cost us nothing, ofcourse they charge us for every bit we get from them. infact in case they are not willing to sell us the key part of a system and insist us to get it from them! i know what are you are trying to point out!
all i was trying to quote was that after all we cannot relay only on Make-up LCH, we do need a fleet of dedicated platform! some 60 - 70 choppers will do the job and rest can be done by the fennec or any other option, where as a matter of fact the fennec will be a good choice. but sir i dont think we can compare WZ10, T129 or even the Z9 with fennec!
i was only trying to state that the 70 odd systems thaat i mentioned must be a combination of WZ10 and T129 as this, as you said, will not be putting all eggs in one basket and will give as a cheaper way out with a bit less expensive WZ10 and a more advanced but expensive T129 working in combination!
still i doubt 70 wont be enough and that is where the fennec comes into play!
anyway thankyou for your response!


regards!

 

[sancho]

listen... you have to stop acting and admit the fact that PAK and INDIA are in cold war type situation.. if one side makes tanks the other one has to catch up and etc... and dont drag it to your usual off topic indian nonsense.. not interested to listen to your BS..

Why so offensive again?
Just like arsalanaslam123 I don't think that you can compare a real combat helicopterlike LCH with an armed utility helicopter like fennec. A combat helicopter is for offensive reasons, just like the tanks you mentioned and Pak forces already have Cobras and will get other combat helicopter to as a response. But the utility helicopters like fennec, or Mi 17 are not like that, they will be used mainly for transport, or troop support just like an armed humvee for example.
That's why I said, India might get 400 new LUH that could be armed, but that doesn't mean that Pak forces have to counter that too, because they won't be a primary threat unlike tanks, fighters, or combat helicopters.