Shots fired & two people killed at the Muhammad cartoon contest convention in Texas.

[SamantK]

How do you define sensitivity correcting? My sensitivity differs from yours, from another Muslim's and so on. Many would call this flame baiting. It's a matter of perception.

Also plenty of folks have been critical of Islam and nothing has happened to them e.g. Billy Graham.

I do agree that Muslims should deal with by ignoring it.

It definitely varies from a person to person but a society as a whole has a relative sensitivity. Like you and me both condemn killing for this reason but then some who want to kill or are sensitive above this then it needs to be corrected.

 

[Falcon29]

That's a stupid thing to say and the same as calling all Muslims terrorists. Jewish people tend to have a lot more varying views and opinions on matters than Muslims. A number of Jewish people support your Palestinian cause, but you seem to against even them.

I believe it's wrong to conclude those Jews with varying opinions base such support exclusively due to Palestinian issue. I don't look at them from perspective of their identity. For example men like Noam Chomsky, he is considered a critic of Israel. If people read his books though, there is much more to his expertise, analysis than just the Palestinian topic. He addresses the wars on Iraq, the double standard in American society, and so on. I see him as a rebel, someone like me. We don't hate society nor are we 'traitors' or 'terrorists', we simply believe that with the power/influence the US projects, it is done through an immoral, arrogant, excessive, careless manner. And this should not be the way a state operates which claims to be the most moral, most advanced society in the world that sticks up for certain values for all peoples of the world. Everyone here on PDF is aware these slogans, clauses and so on are just efforts to increase power/infleunce of the US around the world. In name of 'exporting democracy', same way Iran 'exports revolution', they present it at civilian level as religious duty, but its to be influential in the end. So such people like him are rebels.

I'm a Muslim and I hate a lot of Muslims. I don't base my views based on culturual identity(like Christians do). I will suppoort Christians or Jews who stand up for same values I do. Such as Nelson Mandela, Malcom X(was christian), ....[scrambling to remember modern whites who stood for my values...can't remember any...]. As you can see, there is no one to look up to in Western world unless they were affected minorities. Leadership in the West is non-existent, it's been the same status quo the whole time. What the people with money want, and what the military wants, etc... Is who will end up being elected. The system in the United States is well estabished since long ago, meaning that criteria will always be on that doesn't bring change, doesn't bring revolution, doesn't bring inspiration. If you're running for president, big deal, you need to fit criteria. Not only that, there is branches of government which have to agree to reform/bills. All the members of these branches of government are sponsored by military industry, housing business, banking, lobbies, etc....

Nobody in the United States can change this, nobody wants to as long as quality of life remains above average. Now that is more to do with the general population of Americans and it is their responsibility to elect whomever they wish or to call for reform. But, for the people of Middle east particulary and also Muslim world, they are victims of big conspiracies and how can Muslims influence change? By lobbying in US? No way possible, they can't change the system, it's too late. So it occurs through military confrontation in the Middle East or Asia region. This is because its the only means besides demonstrating in a revolution. But that revolution will most likely not succeed since the West including local elements of society will not give up power, will not allow for a genuine reform in the Arab world because it will begin enlightment age for Muslims(Religious democracy as well) and it will inspire them to support justice which means opposing unjust US policies in region which is why US interferes. I know you will tell me, we are responsible for most of our problems, don't blame them. I agree, but in a different way, we are responsible for falling for the traps and in some cases certain parts of our society exploit them for their own good. Think of it like this, West creates conditions they know will complicate severely the situation without being involved directly. Prior to WW1/2, they were involved directly through colonization. Afterwards, they begin cutting states up and created an enemy state in middle of Levant. That enemy state pushed original inhabitants out of their land into Arab lands, and from there they exploited situation in order to get Arabs/Palestinians and other Arabs to kill each other which is exactly what happened. They did this with Africa too.

Now the high iq and logical thinking person would have saw that coming. But the majority of the society isn't logical and doesn't have common sense. So even if the logical person wnated to alter it, he simply can't, the dumber people outnumber them greatly and therefore fell for trap. This is just one example, psot colonial period in ME. The British also put friendly tribes in position of power. Such as a Jordanian one which made agreements to allow Balfour Declration. Now what business does that arrogant Arab idiot that has infeirirtoy complex over the tribe he's from have in deciding Palestine's fate? And they know that would anger Palesitnians. And eventually result in Jordanaisn and Palestinians hating each other. InPakistan, this is same situation. They sepearted you into Pakistan and INdia. Then that wasn't enough they pitted you with Eastern Pakistanis which lead to creation of Bangladesh. Is that your fault? Are you responsible for that dirty framework of a game? You aren't. But we are responsible for realizing the conspiracy against us and working to render it ineffective. However, as I said, many people saw personal gains in this and took the opporutinty. These are the traitors and arrogant people in Muslim world.

Now Europe has gone past this role, and handed the throne to the US. US is now playing Europe's post colonial war. And the Jewish people in the US are contributing to this campaing in the ME. So I blame them, until they stop. If they don't stop, I told you our opitions are nothing short of war. This war will begin in the ME. And many Europeans and AMericans who are dissatisfied with their society will support Muslims in that war. It does not mean we hate Westerners, no we don't. But we hate the global system and how it affects us in a miserable way. All because of United States and Jewish influence in it.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

I understand that shooting is a problem and so is moking the Prophet. And they were not just drawing the potrait , they were mocking and abusing.

Go through some previous pages to get answers. I dont believe in Ram means I am insulting him? What a pathetic logic. Learn some history to know who desecrated other's religious places the most and instead of going left or right to defend the contestors try to stick to the topic.

Well take the latest example of destroying the buddha statue in Afghan , how many old temples are broken in Malaysia ?
Don't believing in someone else god is not offence , but saying that other religion God is not the one is offence.

 

[MilSpec]

I do agree that Muslims should deal with by ignoring it.

Is it possible to include that in a sermon in a mosque...

 

[kadamba-warrior]

Go through some previous pages to get answers. I dont believe in Ram means I am insulting him? What a pathetic logic. Learn some history to know who desecrated other's religious places the most and instead of going left or right to defend the contestors try to stick to the topic.

Hold on! Are you saying that drawing (even a good cartoon) of your prophet is much more disrespectful than entirely NEGATING the existence of others gods from other religions? So you will define the standard of 'respect' for others to follow now?

For you drawing a cartoon of your prophet (even a respectful cartoon) is disrespecting but for others it is extremely disrespecting if you kept on shouting 5 times a day that there is no God other than your own god. But they don't go around shooting whoever says that, do they?

Why is taking offense such an exclusive right of Muslims alone?

 

[kadamba-warrior]

How do you define sensitivity correcting? My sensitivity differs from yours, from another Muslim's and so on.

The definition might differ but it doesn't mean that you just go on a shooting spree anytime somebody draws a cartoon. Is that too much to ask of a citizen of a multicultural, multiethnic, multilingual, secular, democratic country like USA?

Like @SamantK said and I said earlier, I think the whole point about Muslims getting offended by cartoons is more about show of their strength and intimidating others that dare say anything about Islam than anything sanctioned by their religion.

I think their plan is to gradually reduce the threshold at which they will start taking offense. Today it is drawing cartoons, tomorrow it will be women's education, day after tomorrow about apostates/infidels and so on till it all culminates in implementing Shariah and Muslim Personal Law Boards in all countries that have Muslim citizenry.

 

[Psychic]

Hold on! Are you saying that drawing (even a good cartoon) of your prophet is much more disrespectful than entirely NEGATING the existence of others gods from other religions? So you will define the standard of 'respect' for others to follow now?

For you drawing a cartoon of your prophet (even a respectful cartoon) is disrespecting but for others it is extremely disrespecting if you kept on shouting 5 times a day that there is no God other than your own god. But they don't go around shooting whoever says that, do they?

Why is taking offense such an exclusive right of Muslims alone?

So you believe in Yeweh, Ram and Allah? Doesn't every religion has it's own Gods? Muslims never draw cartoons of other's Gods and Prophets and they expect the same in return. As for your shouting and etc etc 5 times a day, Read my previous posts before commenting. I never justify the killers. They are criminals and deserve no mercy, but you will call me a terrorist supporter and sympathizer just because I disagree with you on such contests. Muslims should also obey the local laws instead of taking up arms. But peaceful protest is every ones right and if you are angered by Muslims shouting five times a day, you can do legislation about that just like Swiss govt banned minarets of mosques. Muslims killed no one over that. Blasphemy is not acceptable by us as we consider our Prophet's respect same as the respect of our parents. Peace

Well take the latest example of destroying the buddha statue in Afghan , how many old temples are broken in Malaysia ?
Don't believing in someone else god is not offence , but saying that other religion God is not the one is offence.

Did any one say that Mullah Omer did right when he destroyed Buddha's statue? But you people are hell bent upon saying that any one who insults our Prophet is right.

 

[waz]

The definition might differ but it doesn't mean that you just go on a shooting spree anytime somebody draws a cartoon. Is that too much to ask of a citizen of a multicultural, multiethnic, multilingual, secular, democratic country like USA?
.

Of course not. People should abide by the laws of the land.

Like @SamantK said and I said earlier, I think the whole point about Muslims getting offended by cartoons is more about show of their strength and intimidating others that dare say anything about Islam than anything sanctioned by their religion.
I think their plan is to gradually reduce the threshold at which they will start taking offense. Today it is drawing cartoons, tomorrow it will be women's education, day after tomorrow about apostates/infidels and so on till it all culminates in implementing Shariah and Muslim Personal Law Boards in all countries that have Muslim citizenry.

I'm sorry that's just part sensationalism and part conspiracy theory.

Is it possible to include that in a sermon in a mosque...

Yes, it has been mentioned in the sermon in mosques in this country.

 

[gambit]

So you believe in Yeweh, Ram and Allah? Doesn't every religion has it's own Gods? Muslims never draw cartoons of other's Gods and Prophets and they expect the same in return.

It does not mean that you MUST receive the same courtesy.

You are nice to me and made a positive comment on my suit? Fine, people will praise you to high heavens. But that does not mean I must return the favor. What if I do believe your tie is ugly, your pants too skinny, and your coat too baggy ? Am not allowed to be honest about my opinion ? Suits and ties and religions are the same under the law.

That is the risk you will incur living in a multi-ethnic and multi-religions society like US, that not everyone will be as nice, as considerate, as tolerant, as polite, or as morally righteous as you are. That is why the government draws the line at physical incursions, meaning the police will step in if someone want to do or have done PHYSICAL harm to you.

But the true test of tolerance is when Islam and Muslims are dominant in a society and the majority Muslims just roll their eyes even to the most crude of insults cast against them and their religion by the minorities. That is not what the rest of the world sees.

 

[Psychic]

It does not mean that you MUST receive the same courtesy.

You are nice to me and made a positive comment on my suit? Fine, people will praise you to high heavens. But that does not mean I must return the favor. What if I do believe your tie is ugly, your pants too skinny, and your coat too baggy ? Am not allowed to be honest about my opinion ? Suits and ties and religions are the same under the law.

That is the risk you will incur living in a multi-ethnic and multi-religions society like US, that not everyone will be as nice, as considerate, as tolerant, as polite, or as morally righteous as you are. That is why the government draws the line at physical incursions, meaning the police will step in if someone want to do or have done PHYSICAL harm to you.

But the true test of tolerance is when Islam and Muslims are dominant in a society and the majority Muslims just roll their eyes even to the most crude of insults cast against them and their religion by the minorities. That is not what the rest of the world sees.

I agree with most of what you say. My post was meant for the other member. I myself call the attack violent and unacceptable.
I am only saying that the people holding such contests are morally corrupt, in tolerant and trouble mongers. They have no respect for the emotions and beliefs of others. Criticizing them does not mean that I am with those idiots who start shooting when offended.

That is the risk you will incur living in a multi-ethnic and multi-religions society like US, that not everyone will be as nice, as considerate, as tolerant, as polite, or as morally righteous as you are.

Am I wrong when I point out that they are not nice, considerate,tolerant, polite and morally righteous?
I am not shooting, I am just pointing out.

 

[metronome]

Criticizing them does not mean that I am with those idiots who start shooting when offended.

wait, didn't you say in a previous post that you thought the shooters were gutsy and were acting out of love for their prophet, and that christians don't love their prophet enough to resort to violence ?

 

[gambit]

I agree with most of what you say. My post was meant for the other member. I myself call the attack violent and unacceptable.
I am only saying that the people holding such contests are morally corrupt, in tolerant and trouble mongers. They have no respect for the emotions and beliefs of others. Criticizing them does not mean that I am with those idiots who start shooting when offended.

Am I wrong when I point out that they are not nice, considerate,tolerant, polite and morally righteous?
I am not shooting, I am just pointing out.

No, I do not associate you with the Muslims who wanted to commit violence in response to offense, and whether Pam Geller and her people are inconsiderate, intolerant, and filled with ill will is a matter of your opinion, which I support your right to express. I am pointing out that if you chose to live in a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural society where there are liberal laws granting LEGAL protection to even the most offensive of speech, what you expect and what you receive are two independent things.

Anjem Choudary was on Fox News tonight. That guy must love American TV and we love Anjie back.

Anjie said that anyone who draws any prophet should be killed and we take 'any prophet' to include Jesus. For the above cartoon, the artist's name is Pat Bagley and he is with the Salt Lake City Tribune newspaper. I wonder how many Muslims are going to call for Bagley's head, figuratively and/or literally. The funny thing is that Bagley never drew Muhammad, not at least to my knowledge. But he has no problem portraying Jesus as a gun toting, gritted teeth, and crazed eyed religious figure. Do we have a few 'screwball followers' in Christianity ? Absolutely we do. But why are Pat Bagley and Andre Serrano (Piss Christ) still alive ?

The irony that I think you Muslims consistently misses is that the more American journalists, which includes cartoonists like Bagley, come to the Muslims' and Islam's defense, even to the point of violating, in the other direction, of course, the Quran's commandment on not portraying Allah's prophets, the more it reinforces the perception that it is the Muslims who are intolerant. And the Muslims who want to commit violence in response to offense only contribute to that perception.

 

[metronome]

Anjem Choudary was on Fox News tonight. That guy must love American TV and we love Anjie back.

lol found it

 

[Providence]

Of course not. People should abide by the laws of the land.



I'm sorry that's just part sensationalism and part conspiracy theory.



Yes, it has been mentioned in the sermon in mosques in this country.

Waz brother . How are you ?

 

[KAL-EL]

lol found it

I'm glad I remembered to DVR it. Going to watch it in a few minutes. This is of course a serious subject. None the less, I feel that a fight card should be drawn up for these fringe people.

As much as Anjem Choudary might not like America, he sure loves being on American TV. She's KuKu, but he's a complete fruit loop.