Shaan Taseer booked for 'hate speech' following Christmas message.

[Zibago]

Jo kerna hai karo bai, 100 saal mai kiya teer maar liya.

These terrorist minded people tasted blood now they want more like rabbies infested dogs

 

[EnggineerShahjehan]

I really cannot say anything else.

And i have much to say, but it ll be waste of time and intellect, which is precious to me , keep enjoying ur life

 

[shah_123]

Most religious people do not have the intellectual capacity to understand, investigate and answer this question.

i have started doubting your intellectual capacity after reading this post.

 

[Well.wisher]

Most religious people do not have the intellectual capacity to understand, investigate and answer this question.

Lol .
You might be confusing their humility with dumb Ness . .
Anyway, the question asked was itself an unintelligent one .

I guess you're also a bit religious . . Saw you defending religion , don't hide you're intelligent .

 

[pak-marine]

shan taseer wished merry christmas to christians raised concern on those serving death penalty and condemned the blasphemy law irony is that got him booked in a case where as that jhangvi called for murdering shia genocide called them infidels and that got him elected .. a hindu poet once wrote :

Jaam pe jaam piya
aur Musalman rahe!
Qatal Imamon ko kiya aur
Musalman rahe!
Yehi Deen hai to
iss Deen se tauba "Mathur"
Shaq Payamber pe kiya aur
Musalman rahe!
Jisne Paala Payamber ko wo raha
Kafir!
Yazidiyon ne Qatal-e-HUSSAIN kiya aur
Musalman rahe!

 

[Djinn]

There was no unlawful interference, and unless you can prove it, this gets thrown out the window.

Even as a government official, he has the right (as a citizen of Pakistan) to criticize certain laws. Criticism and disregard are two different things. He was trying to use legal methods to reform or even get rid of the blasphemy law, he did not use illegal avenues.

Promotion of the rule of law is one thing, but that doesn't constitute blind devotion and belief in every single law that is made. The fact that he died, and Qadri got a lot of praise, shows that Salman wasn't trying to achieve popularity, or to score political points, considering that he held a deeply unpopular opinion. So your excerpt is kind of a nonstarter here.


That is not how "contempt of court" works, why do people keep misusing this term. Salman's accusations do not constitute a contempt of court, simply due to the fact that personal opinion (protected speech by law) and occurred actions (what Salman did) come into play here. To even a casual observer, Salman was absolutely correct, and even recently, the court has once against stalled the process of the case in question. Salman did not break any laws, he did not address a specific judge, he did not cause any sort of problems for the courts to proceed with the trial.

Simply put, I don't buy this argument.


Pakistan isn't as simple as majority rule, you know that. Though, I have to say that "tyranny of the majority" certainly exists within Pakistan. Progressing a nation forward sometimes means that you have to make unpopular choices, this is certainly one of them.


I never really said it was a fad, or a trend, but it certainly slowly will become one. The reason why we don't hear officals talk about it? Take one guess, I'll give you a hint: They're all afraid that they'll get murdered. I hope that hint helps.

Besides, we have heard one politician talk about it, and he seems like the only one that may actually achieve the goal of reforming the law; Imran Khan is probably Pakistan's best bet currently of reforming the law.

Sharif is a conservative, you'll never see him talk about it. Zardari and Bilawal, despite being "secular" have a history of cooperating with ultra-religious and far right parties.

I do think Pakistanis are ready to have the debate, even if they're not yet ready to get rid of this law. Debate is the only way to convince Pakistanis that the blasphemy law is a bad idea, and is doing more harm than good.

----------

It is no longer a matter of "if", but "when". The blasphemy law WILL eventually face the chopping block, either it will reform on the way to the execution chamber, or it will die.

Just because I cannot prove something doesn't mean it didn't happen. His statements and actions are evident enough to prove that he was acting out of official protocols as the extract provided in my previous post illustrates and since he is dead now so nobody with legal expertise would even bother to dig these things up. Accusing the judiciary is exactly what constitutes the contempt it's another matter that no one is pursing this case anymore for obvious reasons. I believe this clause isn't even open to subjective interpretation since every thing is clear enough, not to mention a government official making such claims makes it more consequential.

The fact that he died and Qadri was praised, both the acts had nothing to do with the blasphemy laws rather this further comports with stance of my argument that it's the people who on their own unleash violence and regardless the laws are repealed or not there is no guarantee if such extreme reactions to blasphemy cases will ever simmer down.

Exactly if the Pakistani's dont want a debate on the issue then it clears it out that they want the laws intact. If the likes of Salman Tseer are going to oppose the majority irrespective they are right or wrong they will have to face the public wrath and therefore it is highly advisable that his family members refrain from giving statements which defy the majority sentiments in Pakistan. Shareefs and Zardari/Bhutto's don't give such statements because they are wise enough to know that at this stage they will backfire.......Actually any person who is privy to Pakistan's social setup knows this really well and treads carefully when it comes to situations like that, even if they are not entirely religiously sanctioned.

 

[Well.wisher]

:

Jaam pe jaam piya
aur Musalman rahe!
Qatal Imamon ko kiya aur
Musalman rahe!
Yehi Deen hai to
iss Deen se tauba "Mathur"
Shaq Payamber pe kiya aur
Musalman rahe!
Jisne Paala Payamber ko wo raha
Kafir!
Yazidiyon ne Qatal-e-HUSSAIN kiya aur
Musalman rahe!

Kia bat ha !

 

[pak-marine]

Kia bat ha !

Koi mathur sahab nay kaha hai main nay tu copy paste kia hai

 

[Well.wisher]

Koi mathur sahab nay kaha hai main nay tu copy paste kia hai

Maloom ha .
Me ne shair pe 'wah ' kia , ap pe nhi :p

 

[That Guy]

Just because I cannot prove something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

True, but that also doesn't mean they DID happen. This is why evidence is important, to strengthen an argument, instead of leaving things up to assumptions.

His statements and actions are evident enough to prove that he was acting out of official protocols as the extract provided in my previous post illustrates and since he is dead now so nobody with legal expertise would even bother to dig these things up. Accusing the judiciary is exactly what constitutes the contempt it's another matter that no one is pursing this case anymore for obvious reasons. I believe this clause isn't even open to subjective interpretation since every thing is clear enough, not to mention a government official making such claims makes it more consequential.

His statements and actions are not evidence enough to prove anything, if they were, he would have faced scrutiny from the judiciary, which is in itself evidence enough to show that he did nothing illegal.

Accusing the judiciary of something isn't in itself contempt of court, I don't know where you got this idea from. This sort of speech is protected speech; it is considered legitimate criticism.

Every single rule and law is subject for interpretation, this is how precedents are set, this is how two people (who're accused of the exact same crime) can get two different sentences, depending on which jurisdiction they're being tried.

Plainly speaking, Salman Taseer did nothing illegal, and he did not overstep his official boundaries. The only thing he's guilty of is being too passionate about one particular case and cause, which some would consider as inappropriate for a sitting official.

The fact that he died and Qadri was praised, both the acts had nothing to do with the blasphemy laws rather this further comports with stance of my argument that it's the people who on their own unleash violence and regardless the laws are repealed or not there is no guarantee if such extreme reactions to blasphemy cases will ever simmer down.

It had everything to do with blasphemy, Qadri even said that Salman Taseer was guilty of blasphemy, which is why Qadri killed him: This was his exact reason. What more evidence do you need?

If the law is repealed, no one would be register a case, so the legal route would disappear. The legal route is what is giving extremist groups like so called "Sunni-Tahreek" legal cover, and ammunition.

You don't give ammunition to a mentally ill man with an empty gun, when you know he's going to use it to shoot people. In fact, you not only stop giving him ammunition, you take away his gun, just in case he finds ammunition from someone else. This is how foreign intelligence agencies end up having relations with insurgents within Pakistan, and Pakistan is doing itself a disservice not fighting this extremism on a legal and intellectual level. All the gains the military has made, will be pointless if the blasphemy law isn't reformed, and groups like "Sunni-Tahreek" aren't dealt with.

Exactly if the Pakistani's dont want a debate on the issue then it clears it out that they want the laws intact. If the likes of Salman Tseer are going to oppose the majority irrespective they are right or wrong they will have to face the public wrath and therefore it is highly advisable that his family members refrain from giving statements which defy the majority sentiments in Pakistan. Shareefs and Zardari/Bhutto's don't give such statements because they are wise enough to know that at this stage they will backfire.......Actually any person who is privy to Pakistan's social setup knows this really well and treads carefully when it comes to situations like that, even if they are not entirely religiously sanctioned.

Except I'm saying that they DO want a debate, the fact that people are so deeply divided on the issue is proof enough that the debate must be had.

You don't progress, unless you're willing to change.

I don't agree that it is the majority sentiments in Pakistan that support this ridiculous law, people are just too scared of the extremist, that they themselves will be accused of blasphemy, that they won't speak up about it.

Make no mistake, Salman Taseer was right, the law must be dealt with.

I don't buy your explanation for why Sharif and Zardari won't speak up about this; I continue to believe my own explanation. The fact that the recent pro-Blasphemy law supporters will quickly and ruthlessly stamped out, and ridiculed heavily, not to mention the number of protestors were pathetically low, is evidence of just how much say a minority is having over the majority.

I simply don't buy your argument.

Just to make one thing clear, don't take what I'm saying personally, or as an insult. I think the fact that you and I can even have this conversation is important to the future of this discussion.

 

[Djinn]

True, but that also doesn't mean they DID happen. This is why evidence is important, to strengthen an argument, instead of leaving things up to assumptions.


His statements and actions are not evidence enough to prove anything, if they were, he would have faced scrutiny from the judiciary, which is in itself evidence enough to show that he did nothing illegal.

Accusing the judiciary of something isn't in itself contempt of court, I don't know where you got this idea from. This sort of speech is protected speech; it is considered legitimate criticism.

Every single rule and law is subject for interpretation, this is how precedents are set, this is how two people (who're accused of the exact same crime) can get two different sentences, depending on which jurisdiction they're being tried.

Plainly speaking, Salman Taseer did nothing illegal, and he did not overstep his official boundaries. The only thing he's guilty of is being too passionate about one particular case and cause, which some would consider as inappropriate for a sitting official.


It had everything to do with blasphemy, Qadri even said that Salman Taseer was guilty of blasphemy, which is why Qadri killed him: This was his exact reason. What more evidence do you need?

If the law is repealed, no one would be register a case, so the legal route would disappear. The legal route is what is giving extremist groups like so called "Sunni-Tahreek" legal cover, and ammunition.

You don't give ammunition to a mentally ill man with an empty gun, when you know he's going to use it to shoot people. In fact, you not only stop giving him ammunition, you take away his gun, just in case he finds ammunition from someone else. This is how foreign intelligence agencies end up having relations with insurgents within Pakistan, and Pakistan is doing itself a disservice not fighting this extremism on a legal and intellectual level. All the gains the military has made, will be pointless if the blasphemy law isn't reformed, and groups like "Sunni-Tahreek" aren't dealt with.


Except I'm saying that they DO want a debate, the fact that people are so deeply divided on the issue is proof enough that the debate must be had.

You don't progress, unless you're willing to change.

I don't agree that it is the majority sentiments in Pakistan that support this ridiculous law, people are just too scared of the extremist, that they themselves will be accused of blasphemy, that they won't speak up about it.

Make no mistake, Salman Taseer was right, the law must be dealt with.

I don't buy your explanation for why Sharif and Zardari won't speak up about this; I continue to believe my own explanation. The fact that the recent pro-Blasphemy law supporters will quickly and ruthlessly stamped out, and ridiculed heavily, not to mention the number of protestors were pathetically low, is evidence of just how much say a minority is having over the majority.

I simply don't buy your argument.

Just to make one thing clear, don't take what I'm saying personally, or as an insult. I think the fact that you and I can even have this conversation is important to the future of this discussion.

For how Salman Taseer acted out he may even have been penalized legally if only he had not been killed (But that was a decision solely for the Judiciary to make, however considering it's recent bouts with General Musharraf it makes sense if it didn't want to open another front with the PPP government)........A government official speaking ill of the judicial processes amounts to nothing less than a stringent critique of the judicial system nomatter where you are in the world and keeping in view the Pakistani constitutionally defined modus-operandi for ensuring smooth relations between the judiciary and the government .....It is up to the legislation to point out such shortcomings not a lone government official. Anyways that's how I see it based on certain well grounded facts and I think it's futile to debate this point any further.

No body denied it had nothing to do with blasphemy, but it wasn't the Blasphemy laws which consumed his life, a man did. Sunni Taheek and all other such organizations may try to justify their actions under the Blasphemy laws but Blasphemy laws don't sanction or approve of any extra judicial killings..........Sorry, but again I don't see how it's the blasphemy laws which are at fault here when it's always the people who disregard the common laws while committing all sorts of crimes and this phenomenon prevails everywhere even in the developed and the secular states.

Salman Taseer was right or not I don't know but his crass approach to the matter was most certainly ill timed and didn't harmonize with his designation. Likewise his son also needs to understand that these outbursts wont get him much sympathy in the real world, as i mentioned earlier the cyber world is an exception
If you chose to not take my word on Shareefs and Zardari's silence then it's your choice, nothing much I can say to convince you otherwise. I believe you mentioned IK for having the potential to oppose these laws, please have a look at the most recent apology they made him issue. If a man of IK's stature has been forced into saying this then I am afraid that the like's Taseer's may have to do a lot more.......So if Shaan has any brains left he better not go down that road, he needs to act wise for the better good of his entire family.

 

[That Guy]

For how Salman Taseer acted out he may even have been penalized legally if only he had not been killed (But that was a decision solely for the Judiciary to make, however considering it's recent bouts with General Musharraf it makes sense if it didn't want to open another front with the PPP government)........A government official speaking ill of the judicial processes amounts to nothing less than a stringent critique of the judicial system nomatter where you are in the world and keeping in view the Pakistani constitutionally defined modus-operandi for ensuring smooth relations between the judiciary and the government .....It is up to the legislation to point out such shortcomings not a lone government official. Anyways that's how I see it based on certain well grounded facts and I think it's futile to debate this point any further.

But that does jell with reality. Anyone can criticize the judiciary, or any government institute for that matter, it is a citizen's right. Rights don't simply disappear, just because you hold a certain office, you are still a citizen, with all your fundamental rights.

I have seen zero evidence that Salman Taseer did anything illegal, the most one can prove is controversial, and nothing more.

No body denied it had nothing to do with blasphemy, but it wasn't the Blasphemy laws which consumed his life, a man did. Sunni Taheek and all other such organizations may try to justify their actions under the Blasphemy laws but Blasphemy laws don't sanction or approve of any extra judicial killings..........Sorry, but again I don't see how it's the blasphemy laws which are at fault here when it's always the people who disregard the common laws while committing all sorts of crimes and this phenomenon prevails everywhere even in the developed and the secular states.

That's the thing though, merely questioning the Blasphemy law can get you killed, and that is the problem with the law itself. It isn't so much what the law is, but what it represents. It has been a tool for extremist groups to gain legal cover, for their efforts to attack opponents and minority groups.

You take away their legal cover, and you expose them for what they really are, criminals.

Salman Taseer was right or not I don't know but his crass approach to the matter was most certainly ill timed and didn't harmonize with his designation. Likewise his son also needs to understand that these outbursts wont get him much sympathy in the real world, as i mentioned earlier the cyber world is an exception

See, I don't know about that. Most of these statements are meant to gain media and global attention (which in itself is not a bad thing, despite what many Pakistanis here would claim), so as to put pressure on, not only the government, but shine a light on these extremist groups that use and abuse this very law. This method may heighten tension, but it is also a very strong way to get results.

Salman Taseer's death wasn't in vain, and it is precisely because he was so vocal with the media, about the law. Since his death, it has come into extreme scrutiny, and blasphemy law abolitionist supporters have gained a lot of sympathizers, if not outright supporters to get rid, or at least reform the law in question.

If you chose to not take my word on Shareefs and Zardari's silence then it's your choice, nothing much I can say to convince you otherwise. I believe you mentioned IK for having the potential to oppose these laws, please have a look at the most recent apology they made him issue. If a man of IK's stature has been forced into saying this then I am afraid that the like's Taseer's may have to do a lot more.......So if Shaan has any brains left he better not go down that road, he needs to act wise for the better good of his entire family.

I know about the apology, but it still hasn't stopped him from talking about or even changed his opinion on the blasphemy law. In fact, a lot of PTI supporters were urging him to not apologize, and instead carry out protests against these extremist people.

The truth is that the government can now easily shut down these people, just take a look at what happened not too long ago.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1284399...ying-celebrate-salmaan-taseers-assassination/

A major protest, if you can even call it that, consider just how little support it got from the public, was absolutely crushed.

Trust me when I say, extremists only have a voice, if you let them speak.