Serving Two Masters: Shariah Law and the Secular State

[somebozo]

Sharia law is mostly Greek medival laws which came into practice by arabs!

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

I know enough about shariah law and enough to determine it wont work in the current times. Saudi Arabia is a great example of that.

Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with Shariah... This shows to me that you dont know Shariah...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

That truly explains "the amount" of knowledge you have about sharia.
Saudi arabia is an Authoritarian Kingdom not a state run by Sharia.

Sharia law has a democratic electoral system , Shura (parliament) , Khalifa (PM-which can be removed easily) , Freedom of worship and practice , non interest economy etc

Saudi arabia has none - which leaves you with no argument , just refrain yourself from this conversation or you will get closer to be added into respected ones list.

Thanks for your time.

I would disagree with the details of it but you are almost hitting the mark...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

and a woman is half witness of a man and a kafir like me quarter witness, thank you I love that kind of system to be followed in all muslim countries.

Shallow mentality... In a case against any person, one woman's witness who states that the accused was seen by her in a different place than the site of crime at the time of the alleged crime over rules all the accusers regardless if they are male or female and regardless of their number...

 

[Awesome]

^Secularism is unnatural. Individuals are non-secular and cannot agglomerate into a secular cooperate, without compromising their inner beliefs.

Above all logic, secularism is not the approved system. It will eventually die and be forgotten.

Secularism is as unnatural? Religion grows on trees?

Secularism is separation of state and religion - it is not a thing, it is not something that has to be done, it is not forcing one religion over the other.

The order of human societies without an external force acting upon it would be more close to secularism than to a theocracy.

Secularism can be for the religious, for the atheist, for the confused (like Pakistanis). Pick up a dictionary look at the meaning. Pick up an encyclopedia look up at the history.

 

[ajpirzada]

what is shariah law? can anyone provide the specifics?

i guess ultimately both laws are interpreted and implemented by human beings. this would mean they both can be as good or worse depending on the people behind it.

given muslims today are largely illiterate in both religious and worldly knowledge, it would be unlikely that they come up with something spectacular.

 

[T-Faz]

The case for Sharia Law will be hard to produce becuase firstly, we do not have a current or very recent example of one and secondly, many confuse it with the harsh authoritarian rules in notable Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Another thing that is worth noting is that with such a corrupt religious clergy and lack of knowledge amongst the populace about religion itself, the matters not adressed by Islamic scriptures will be hard to develop. Maulana Maududi had suggested that an appointed group of religious clergy should overlook the matters in regard to forming a complete outline of those things that are not addressed by Sharia. The problem with this was the religious leaders were politically inclined and thus likely to abuse laws as they currently do to their own advantage.

Certainly the various sects in Islam and the varying beliefs would make it difficult for any country to formalise a certain type of Sharia, one that is acceptable to one particular sect will not be acceptable to the other.

Having observed the wanton need of Sharia by some sections is understandable as they think of it as an effective alternative but overlook the fact that no one around is capable enough of applying it in its originality or using it as a political tool.

Secularism on the other hand is varied according to country and has been succesful in a number of places though challenged intermittently by religious doctrination.

As we have example of secular states in our current time and we have suffered from limited implementation of religious laws, it would be highly advisable to follow a secular approach.

Pakistan should be like England in that England has a state religion but it does not play any part in state affairs. Soft secularism should be instilled in the country and the democratic process will help drive it forward.

Secularism allows you the freedom to choose your religious path and practice your faith freely, as Abdullahi An Naim wrote:

In order to be a Muslim by conviction and free choice, which is the only way one can be a Muslim, I need a secular state. By as secular state I mean one that is neutral regarding religious doctrine ,one that does not claim or pretend to enforce Sharia—the religious law of Islam—simply because compliance with Sharia cannot be coerced by fear of state institutions or faked to appease their officials.

 

[Spring Onion]

When you guys win the match please do let me know.

I think we are done with this topic. leave us alone yara. Goras need to focus on their own ideas which are drifting away from the core aim of the system they presented earlier.

The people who advocate the opposite system should leave the goras alone too.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

The very fabric of Muslim society shows that Secularism will not work for us...

There are a few reasons for this...

Firstly... The reason why Secularism has worked for the west is because their religion i.e Christianity was oppressing the masses in the name of God... The Church history is proof of this with brutality such as burning people on the cross for the simple act like translating the bible into English!!!

For Muslims, our golden age was when we were living under the Caliphate... We have no problems with science and technology because Islam and specially the Quran itself invites mankind to ponder and think on nature (which is the first step of science i.e observation)... Moreover if history is proof we have led the world of science and technology and contributed tremendously to the fields of knowledge that has helped mankind... Its a different matter that with the decline in the level of thinking for Muslims, we left that important function in the world and lost all leadership after having the Ottoman state destroyed by the colonialists and traitors such as the highway robbers like Ibn Saud under the supervision of Lawrence of Arabia... Moreover Islam has rules in detail about a functioning society be it economics, ruling, justice, foreign policy of the state whereas all other religions are devoid of such systems... so one can be very happy to have a personal Jesus and deal with interest based transactions... but we as Muslims cannot do this (at least those who know how serious the matter of usury is in our ideology)... this is why secularism is going to fail in our society...

I should add that the influence of revival of Islam is being felt across the world today... one of the reasons why the European countries are banning certain clothing and insulting and mocking our prophet is because they are acutely aware of their own problems and cannot tolerate Islam as a solution to their problems... Talk about an interest rate of 0.1 percent LOL

2. Secondly... and TFaz's comment highlights this... in the absence of an enlightened Islamic system, we can talk about these things for years yet will not have a picture in our minds because unless we as Muslims show an example to the world, they will not understand it... Yesterday a lady who became a Muslim after discussing different matters of Islam from me wrote to me from Canada saying that she felt so frustrated because her society is so ignorant about Islam... and its interesting because we as Muslims are also very ignorant of our deen... We have the emotions but we seldom have the thinking that is necessary for our revival...

 

[greatsequence]

When you guys win the match please do let me know.

I think we are done with this topic. leave us alone yara. Goras need to focus on their own ideas which are drifting away from the core aim of the system they presented earlier.

The people who advocate the opposite system should leave the goras alone too.

Well how often and how much you may try this kind of stuff comes back to bite you again and again. But it is good to stay away from it for some time and get relaxed.

 

[The Clarifier]

It is impossible. Secular state for a secular nation. We are not secular. Don't even think of it.

Oh, and, when Shariah Law was in practice, the Islamic Empire was one of the greatest (often omitted from history books).

 

[smali183]

and a woman is half witness of a man and a kafir like me quarter witness, thank you I love that kind of system to be followed in all muslim countries.

What you people thinking

Islam is the only religion which gives more respect to women then A Man.
men and women are equal.

And what do you mean by kafir quarter witness

The majority of we Muslim don’t know that a major responsibility is one of Invitation of Islam ( dawah ) to unbeliever ( Kafir) with respect, good manner best way before his death because ALLAH (SWT) will ask from this ummah about any unbeliever ( kafir) that have you give an invitation and any hardwork with respect and best way to this unbeliever before his death .
So let me ask a question that if a Muslim and Muslim country has believe on the above as I mention so they will be more respect and facilitate to Unbeliever ( Kafir) than a Muslim .
( i-e he ( unbeliever) Accept Islam or reject but you ( Muslim) will be continue your try with respect and best way until you have life to complete your responsibility.

AND I AM REQUESTING TO ALL UNBELIVERS COME AND ACCEPT ISLAM

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

what is shariah law? can anyone provide the specifics?

i guess ultimately both laws are interpreted and implemented by human beings. this would mean they both can be as good or worse depending on the people behind it.

given muslims today are largely illiterate in both religious and worldly knowledge, it would be unlikely that they come up with something spectacular.

shari3a or The Law is the law that accepts that Allah alone, who created us all, has the capability and the right to make laws that govern us. It is the law, or the state system, that has been exposed to humankind through a select few among us.

We Muslims believe that The Law is not dead, as Paul claims, and The Covenent is still holding. The rules sent a while ago through Moses AS, and later somewhat modified through Muhammad SAW, still are the rules by which we are meant to deal amongst ourselves - form governments, run economies, make war, inherit, coalesce into families, consume food etc.

 

[Ahmad]

when the taliban in pakistan and afghanistan enforce some of those laws many of us moan, but now here we defend the religious state.

 

[Dr Lakhani]

Jinnah's vision of a secular state is dead in the water, Zia imposed his wahabi ideology on the masses which has now backfired.