Senior U.S. senator wants 'freeze' on Saudi cooperation including most arms sales, blasts Riyadh

[Meengla]

you are a reasonable dude. You are telling that Pakistanis have the right to emigrate to the EU while citizens of Ukraine be denied the same right.
Europe is united on Ukraine. They are economic costs in the short to intermediate term. This is the price of depending on Russia for energy.

I don't think there is a 'united' Europe on the Ukraine war. The day Americans back off from this war, Europeans, who went to this reluctantly, will back off in a minute. And unless there is some off-ramp given to Putin, I only see destruction in Europe. For all I care, if Putin is 'taken out' in a coup or naturally, that's fine by me. Putin's reading of history is false--he should have worked to integrate with Europe, even as a B-Grade power. BUT... it is what it is and unless there is off-ramp given--which even Mike Pompeo is suggesting--there is nothing but destruction in Europe and possibly beyond. As long as Putin is alive, Russia will NOT lose this war!! And once you base your likely scenarios off that, you will start to get a clearer picture of where this war may end up.

Unlikely - two Mullah’s can never be friends. They can align for a while on issues but that is that.

Or rather, the Persian Empire and Arabs cannot be allied. Too much bad blood and history between them.

Neocons however, cannot achieve much and a single senator does nothing. The Saudi lobby is too well entrenched.

We give too much weight to the historic rivalries between nations. Modern Saudi Arabia under MBS is a much more forward looking nation and Iran's population is western-oriented. Maybe we won't see the rapprochement between the two countries in the next 1-2 years but IF the Neocons in Washington go too far in punishing Saudi Arabia then I see a distinct possibility of at least a détente between Iran and KSA very soon. Even America can't be too hostile to the Middle East, to Venezuela, to China, and to Russia at the same time. And in that vein, perhaps the withdrawal from Afghanistan in the summer of 2021 was needed.

BTW, perhaps smarting from the Iraq War of 2003, there IS a lot of 'dissent' in America about the Russia-Ukraine war.

 

[Meengla]

Biden and the dems want to eliminate fossil fuel production to fight climate change........then they get mad at OPEC for cutting oil production. Isn't that what they wanted??

Yes. In the American media--even if it would be Fox News (but that channel has a very powerful reach!) --there are rumblings about how the Biden Admin policies about domestic energy production has led to the current high prices. And, except for the diehard Democratic Party supporters, there is lot of noise about how Biden tried to gain some advantage in the upcoming Mid Term Elections by doing whatever it took--and that involved the begging to MBS--to keep the gasoline/petrol prices down. What an idiot!! Unless you live here and are following media from several sources, you don't know how much the American Right HATES Biden to the point of supporting even foreign powers' actions!!

I don't think USA will freeze cooperation with Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia is a key ally of USA in the Middle East.

Losing it, means USA will lose a lot of influence over the Middle East.


I do believe USA is going to plan for a coup.

Creating a power struggle in Saudi Arabia to install a puppet king there.

Already, even in the Right wing media, there is a talk about Saudi Arabia being long term 'ally' and Biden admin would be going too far.
But I don't think a coup is at all likely in KSA. Maybe the CIA has 'files' on the personal lives of MBS and others ....

 

[SQ8]

I don't think there is a 'united' Europe on the Ukraine war. The day Americans back off from this war, Europeans, who went to this reluctantly, will back off in a minute. And unless there is some off-ramp given to Putin, I only see destruction in Europe. For all I care, if Putin is 'taken out' in a coup or naturally, that's fine by me. Putin's reading of history is false--he should have worked to integrate with Europe, even as a B-Grade power. BUT... it is what it is and unless there is off-ramp given--which even Mike Pompeo is suggesting--there is nothing but destruction in Europe and possibly beyond. As long as Putin is alive, Russia will NOT lose this war!! And once you base your likely scenarios off that, you will start to get a clearer picture of where this war may end up.



We give too much weight to the historic rivalries between nations. Modern Saudi Arabia under MBS is a much more forward looking nation and Iran's population is western-oriented. Maybe we won't see the rapprochement between the two countries in the next 1-2 years but IF the Neocons in Washington go too far in punishing Saudi Arabia then I see a distinct possibility of at least a détente between Iran and KSA very soon. Even America can't be too hostile to the Middle East, to Venezuela, to China, and to Russia at the same time. And in that vein, perhaps the withdrawal from Afghanistan in the summer of 2021 was needed.

BTW, perhaps smarting from the Iraq War of 2003, there IS a lot of 'dissent' in America about the Russia-Ukraine war.

A detente isn’t an alliance

The issue isn’t MBS progressive outlook but the Iranian regime. Ultimately a repressive theological system cannot last because it’s forced to constantly justify itself by repressing people.

The Urban Saudi has moved on as a society and is rapidly bringing the rural with them.
I cannot state the same for Iran yet.

 

[nahtanbob]

I don't think there is a 'united' Europe on the Ukraine war. The day Americans back off from this war, Europeans, who went to this reluctantly, will back off in a minute. And unless there is some off-ramp given to Putin, I only see destruction in Europe. For all I care, if Putin is 'taken out' in a coup or naturally, that's fine by me. Putin's reading of history is false--he should have worked to integrate with Europe, even as a B-Grade power. BUT... it is what it is and unless there is off-ramp given--which even Mike Pompeo is suggesting--there is nothing but destruction in Europe and possibly beyond. As long as Putin is alive, Russia will NOT lose this war!! And once you base your likely scenarios off that, you will start to get a clearer picture of where this war may end up.

Russian attack on Ukraine has been condemned by major powers (UK, Britain, Germany, Italy), anti-Russia East European crowd (Poland, Baltics), neutral powers (Austria, Sweden, Finland, Ireland), pro-Putin/soft on Russia crowd (Hungary, Serbia, Greece, Turkey). They have USA watching their backs. If you think American intelligence/weapons don't make a difference in war nothing will convince you. Seriously what do you take Europe for ? They have one of most powerful economic-political blocs on the planet. they survived the oil shocks of the 1970s. They have China which would like to play enemy of my enemy game staying neutral for all practical purposes. You are counting on European disunity as a strategy. There is not much Russia can do to escalate. Biden made it clear what use of tactical nukes means. I think for once Sleepy Joe means what he says.

If Russia does not want to lose the war they have to define what that means. Ukraine is here to stay as an independent country. Ukraine will get EU membership right away to send the Russians a clear message.

 

[Meengla]

They have USA watching their backs. If you think American intelligence/weapons don't make a difference in war nothing will convince you. Seriously what do you take Europe for ? They have one of most powerful economic-political blocs on the planet. they survived the oil shocks of the 1970s

In a round-about way, you are confirming what I said above Europe is nothing without America especially when it comes to military conflicts. And 'condemning' is not the same as escalation. Any sane country would 'condemn' the Russian aggression.
As for the outcome of this war... I repeat, as long as Putin is alive, Russia won't 'lose'. And if pushed to a corner, he may well use the tactical nukes. It is best to give this megalomaniac an 'exit ramp'. Things will be sorted out by time.

 

[nahtanbob]

In a round-about way, you are confirming what I said above Europe is nothing without America especially when it comes to military conflicts. And 'condemning' is not the same as escalation. Any sane country would 'condemn' the Russian aggression.
As for the outcome of this war... I repeat, as long as Putin is alive, Russia won't 'lose'. And if pushed to a corner, he may well use the tactical nukes. It is best to give this megalomaniac an 'exit ramp'. Things will be sorted out by time.

It is true USA reinforces the ability of Europe to tell Russia to get lost. If you figure out the exit ramp for Putin a lot of people will be happy

 

[mike2000 is back]

US is the largest oil producer but it’s economy isn’t dependent on oil exports. Russians and Saudis are factoring in up coming recession and low oil demand. Therefore they need higher oil prices to reduce any budget shortfalls.

US politics and establishment is mostly anti-Arab, anti-muzlims, so they will find any reason to screw over Saudis.

But I thought that according to PDF Keyboard warriors and Iranian fanboys KSA is a US puppet with no independence?

 

[mike2000 is back]

US is the largest oil producer but it’s economy isn’t dependent on oil exports. Russians and Saudis are factoring in up coming recession and low oil demand. Therefore they need higher oil prices to reduce any budget shortfalls.

US politics and establishment is mostly anti-Arab, anti-muzlims, so they will find any reason to screw over Saudis.

But I thought that according to PDF Keyboard warriors and Iranian fanboys KSA is a US puppet with no independence?

 

[Genghis khan1]

But I thought that according to PDF Keyboard warriors and Iranian fanboys KSA is a US puppet with no independence?

They are not totally wrong either, unlike old dimwits, MBS is a smart guy. He is making power moves.

Case in point: UK is US Lappy, but still look after it’s interest.

 

[mike2000 is back]

They are not totally wrong either, unlike old dimwits, MBS is a smart guy. He is making power moves.

Case in point: UK is US Lappy, but still look after it’s interest.

You should check the definition of puppet/lapdog then. So if KSA was just a puppet/lapdog it means they will do whatever they are told. How come they go against US wishes and interests? That's not a lapdog anymore . So another epic fail for you. The thing is some people on here see things as too black and white, forgetting that reality is always different and every country have their own interests, just because they align with another power doesn't means they are a puppet. Same way I have seen someone here saying Iran is lapdogging on Russia to remain in Syria and support Assad familly. Lol if we have common interests why not work together, even if it means working with a bigger power.
Same way some say Pakistan has been a US Lapdog for decades now. Some are also claiming India is also a lapdog of US today, just like some used to claim(especially the Vietnamese and those who were close soviet allies) that China became a US lapdog after they allied and normalised relations together with the US against the Soviet Union in the Late 70s to early 90s. who I'm I to argue with those people? Short minded people will always claim what they see at face value according to their bias, doesn't change reality per se.

 

[Genghis khan1]

You ahould check the definition of puppet/lapdog then. So if KSA was just a puppet/lapdog it means they will do whatever they are told. How come they go against US wishes and interests? That's not a lapdog anymore . So another epic fail. The thing some people on here are things too black and white, forgetting that reality is always different and every country have their own interests, just because they align with another power doesn't means they are a puppet. Same way I have seen someone here saying Iran is lapdogging on Russia to remain in Syria and support Assad familly. Lol if we have common interests why not work together, even if it means working with a bigger power.
Same way some say Pakistan has been a US Lapdog for decades now. Some are also claiming India is also a lapdog of US, just like some used to claim(especially the Vietnamese and those who were close soviet allies) that China became a US lapdog after they allied amd normalised relations together against the Soviet Union in the kate 70s to early 90s. who I'm I to argue with those people. Short minded people will always claim what they see at face value according to their bias, doesn't change reality per se.

That’s is exactly why they are called lappy or lapdogs. Instead of freedom, they preferred sitting in a lap, like a trained dog, in return they get easy meal on time. Self interest is fine as long as there is no coercion involve.

Case in point:
UK joining US for Iraq. No reason except lappy.

Coercion:
Biden threaten consequences to Saudis for cutting oil production.