Secular blunders

[Y2A]

Poor Iqbal e Lahori - that he can be so misunderstood as or rather that he is so abused -- from Deen Iqbal points to a morality and ethics which inform the Siyasat.

But those who misunderstand or abuse Quran when they choose to interpret literally, will do little justice to Iqbal when they imagine the poetry of the artist as literal, as well.

dr Iqbal was not artist he was a philospher, Could you be littile more specific,give your indepth interpited version of verse i quoted, so i can "enlight" myself,

 

[vsdoc]

I'm a little confused here.

Are most of you saying that Pakistan should be a secular country but with Islam as the state religion?

Cheers, Doc

 

[Fracker]

>> Implementing shariah laws in the country is Farz. So if someone call himself a muslim, then it is his duty to implement those Quranic laws in the country where majority is muslims.
>> ZAB had no authority to declare anyone kaffir or non muslims, neither he did. He only portray previously given fatwa by islamic scholar (I am missing his name), so please give away this misconception out of your head.
>> Iqbal is been remember as a thinker of pakistan, who actually given this idea, and on his idea we manage to have Pakistan, but yet when it comes to democracy vs islamic system, then we preferr democracy over islam, not to be called as islamist but modern muslisms.

>>> Now coming to some misconception, which many so-called modern muslims have
1. Does pardha/beard is farz.... Yes it is, and both for men and women rulers are defined (different fiqah has different rules, but none say those aren't fraz)
2. Do government has authority to implement this? ..... No!!
3. Is islam against "women rights".... no absolutly not, infact we have many women teacher sahabies (including hazrat ayesha R.A)
4. Does brutal punishments like hand cutting, hanging, sansar, lashes etc are the part of Islamic shariah... Yes it is
5. Are non muslims need to be called as 2nd class citizen... no, they have equal rights, while just they have to pay jazia, like muslims pay zakat.
6. Does ttp and TNSM were doing right in swat?.. hell no
7. Does islam stop us for getting modern knowledge..... no, infact Quran encourage us to think about this universe, and get the knowledge, even you can non muslims country for that.

any other confusion do let me know...

 

[Y2A]

>> Implementing shariah laws in the country is Farz. So if someone call himself a muslim, then it is his duty to implement those Quranic laws in the country where majority is muslims.
>> ZAB had no authority to declare anyone kaffir or non muslims, neither he did. He only portray previously given fatwa by islamic scholar (I am missing his name), so please give away this misconception out of your head.
>> Iqbal is been remember as a thinker of pakistan, who actually given this idea, and on his idea we manage to have Pakistan, but yet when it comes to democracy vs islamic system, then we preferr democracy over islam, not to be called as islamist but modern muslisms.

>>> Now coming to some misconception, which many so-called modern muslims have
1. Does pardha/beard is farz.... Yes it is, and both for men and women rulers are defined (different fiqah has different rules, but none say those aren't fraz)
2. Do government has authority to implement this? ..... No!!
3. Is islam against "women rights".... no absolutly not, infact we have many women teacher sahabies (including hazrat ayesha R.A)
4. Does brutal punishments like hand cutting, hanging, sansar, lashes etc are the part of Islamic shariah... Yes it is
5. Are non muslims need to be called as 2nd class citizen... no, they have equal rights, while just they have to pay jazia, like muslims pay zakat.
6. Does ttp and TNSM were doing right in swat?.. hell no
7. Does islam stop us for getting modern knowledge..... no, infact Quran encourage us to think about this universe, and get the knowledge, even you can non muslims country for that.

any other confusion do let me know...

Modern democracy which is the western version of the product will be good out lined Structure only if it follows the basic Islamic principles like sovereignty belongs to Allah and their would be no constitutional legislation which will collide with the Quran and Sunnah.
,
I would disagree when the author said

“but yet when it comes to democracy vs islamic system, then we preferr democracy over islam, not to be called as islamist but modern muslisms.
”
Reason is that there is nothing like “modern muslim” in dictionary, you won’t find any thing like this at all, Islam has been divine set of instruction from last 1500 years and acting upon those would be a person called “muslim.
As I said earlier the spirit of democratic values are their in shariya, like concept of shoraiyat, state being responsible to provide basic needs of the citizens, then we have a concept of ijtihad for those maters which were not openly discuss in the code (providing “ijtihad” do not have a collision with Quran and Sunnah ).

 

[zubair723]

Modern democracy which is the western version of the product will be good out lined Structure only if it follows the basic Islamic principles like sovereignty belongs to Allah and their would be no constitutional legislation which will collide with the Quran and Sunnah.
,
I would disagree when the author said

“but yet when it comes to democracy vs islamic system, then we preferr democracy over islam, not to be called as islamist but modern muslisms.
”
Reason is that there is nothing like “modern muslim” in dictionary, you won’t find any thing like this at all, Islam has been divine set of instruction from last 1500 years and acting upon those would be a person called “muslim.
As I said earlier the spirit of democratic values are their in shariya, like concept of shoraiyat, state being responsible to provide basic needs of the citizens, then we have a concept of ijtihad for those maters which were not openly discuss in the code (providing “ijtihad” do not have a collision with Quran and Sunnah ).

Will agree with you.
But in IJTIHAD the concept of 'consensus' is followed. Something similar to 'JIRGA' or US JURY system in US courts. Issues are not supposed to be settled by voting. In fact Islam rejects any form of voting which breeds 'division' among muslims.
The second caliph HAZRAT UMAR had a system where first any issue was resolved in the light of QURAN. If no reference was found in QURAN then HADITH or SUNNAH was consulted but anyone using HADITH was asked to provide witnesses on it. And if the issue still had differences then it was discarded and its discussion was strictly prohibited as HAZRAT UMER himself use to say that now its FITNA.

 

[Fracker]

It follows the basic Islamic principles like sovereignty belongs to Allah and their would be no constitutional legislation which will collide with the Quran and Sunnah.

ohh dear, Islam not only speak about this, this is just a basic. Islam gives you a complete model. Where majlis-e-sharau selecting leader. And majlis-e-shaura consists upon Mutaqi people. bla bla stuff...

I have no problem with democracy, until all the islamic rules are been followed. but my point is, then why you actually call iqbal as thinker of Pakistan. We all know how much he was against Democracy. He wanted to implement same system in madina.

Reason is that there is nothing like “modern muslim” in dictionary, you won’t find any thing like this at all, Islam has been divine set of instruction from last 1500 years and acting upon those would be a person called “muslim.

I know that, but i guess you didn't try to figure out why i use "modern" muslim. I am sorry i should be using "moderate" while defending so-called "extremism".

As I said earlier the spirit of democratic values are their in shariya, like concept of shoraiyat, state being responsible to provide basic needs of the citizens,

atlast you find or still not on the line. Islamic state is not responsible for any need of the people. In fact, every state is responsible of providing basic infrastructure which don't go for un islamic things like riba etc. Now it is the person's due to full fill his needs while utilizing the infrastructure. Still i am not convinced with my self, if that person is responsible to ful fill his needs or he is just responsible to do work. And Allah is responsible for full fill his needs. khair any how, i guess state's responsibility is pretty clear.

Ps: this infrastructure also covers the poor people or those who can't work, to provide them zakat etc.

then we have a concept of ijtihad for those maters which were not openly discuss in the code (providing “ijtihad” do not have a collision with Quran and Sunnah )

hain :o nothing else??? khair.... Please please please, what you are accepting atleast implement those things ...

 

[Y2A]

ohh dear, Islam not only speak about this, this is just a basic. Islam gives you a complete model. Where majlis-e-sharau selecting leader. And majlis-e-shaura consists upon Mutaqi people. bla bla stuff...

Interesting, the Bla bla stuff can be consider as the job of technocrats, when you decide to build a building you get a guy who's you think is qualified enough for the task(by experience or by having a degree), but when you want create a state your considering it as Bla Blah , as most of us inspire more of looking some where else then looking into our prestigious history consider the example of Chinese system, you can just be a lader by having a press conference, you have to earn your way in right from the grass root level, system although is based on hybrid variant of Maoist version of Marxism and blend of European capitalistic nature with the concept of free market, there is certain time period one need to spend in the system to get him train for the responsibility.
And the same logic is implemented way before Chinese when we were looking for the best possible people (based on the morality and religious parameters defined by shariya) to be the part of consultation (mushawarat),

I have no problem with democracy, until all the islamic rules are been followed. but my point is, then why you actually call iqbal as thinker of Pakistan. We all know how much he was against Democracy. He wanted to implement same system in madina.

State of Madinah is the hall mark of the systematic revolution we are looking forward for, Iqbal's anti western democratic (that western promoted, I keep repeating it because of the its significant for the “enlighten and moderated” group of people in my country) posture was due to the international political situation, approach of British democracy in the colonial system, racism against the Negroid race,1st world war and the humiliation of Germans by the allied forces, and then in reaction rise of the fascists and Nazis, these all things were happening in the social democratic system of the west, and rightly it was due the falsehood of this western democratic prophesy, it failed to provide the peace and equality even thought it claim to achieve so.