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Saudi prince feels humiliated by Forbes ranking

It is ridiculous that any time that the free world (that is to say, any nation that is not wholly in the grips of totalitarianism such as Saudi Arabia) states, acts or wishes something that is completely not in the wishes of members of the House of Saud that there is always a hue and cry from that state over the damaging of relations. Independent states are free to do so as they wish, and the Forbes ranking is an independent venture that is not part of the American State, which whole heartedly supports economic and personal freedoms, why on earth the Saudis cannot understand this every time is beyond me. Oil and gas only stretches so far before it dries up.
 
It is ridiculous that any time that the free world (that is to say, any nation that is not wholly in the grips of totalitarianism such as Saudi Arabia) states, acts or wishes something that is completely not in the wishes of members of the House of Saud that there is always a hue and cry from that state over the damaging of relations. Independent states are free to do so as they wish, and the Forbes ranking is an independent venture that is not part of the American State, which whole heartedly supports economic and personal freedoms, why on earth the Saudis cannot understand this every time is beyond me. Oil and gas only stretches so far before it dries up.

I failed to understand your hate.. where does the house of Saud comes in?
Prince, Talal have nothing to do with state business of Saudi Arabia. He's called prince because of his wealth.
 
Dude, we all know how hard he worked his *** off.....lets not open can of worms!

steals country's wealth, sneaky enough to have the country named after them, and with the stolen wealth hire financial adviser from the west. This family were cunning enough to give the religious group powers to completely control their citizens to the point were they would make ridiculous statements such as this to defend the family.
 
Take away this propaganda via wikipedia.
You do not even know what is Forbes business magazine, funny how you brought house of Saud in discussion of Forbes Magazine.

By your formula all his money belong to house of Saud? pathetic...
 
For the people of Pakistan, who dosn't know.. he spent almost $1billion in Pakistan since Musharraf.. todate.

He built an iron palletizing plant.. first of its kind in Pakistan... he was denied power and gas by Zardari.. but he kept paying the salaries for 5 years irrespective of operation or profit.

At last he built his own power plant, which was not forseen at the time of initial investment.

He use to eat with our local labor together in plant.. and always told that he doesn't need money.. he built this plant to help people of Pakistan... while the all good and bad people of Pakistan... keep eating this golden duck until he sold half of its shares to Koreans.. and boom every one got straitened... Zardari stop bothering.. for his percentage too.

Of course there is no discrimination.. in Talal's plant based on any sect. He is a fair and way above than a normal hater.

All major metal plants and foundries operate on their own powerplants. Their electrical demands are so enormous it would be foolish to expect a connection from the national grid. They are not operating your typical hair dryer or an over my dear. Beside many of these plans and foundries create surplus waste heat which is used to generate electrical power for fulfilling their inhouse demand as well as feeding electricity back to the grid.

Beside the steel plant was built by Al Tuwairqi group not Prince Waleed Bin Talal and the Korean firm only came as an operational partner investing $16 Million.

The total investment at this plant was $300 million not $1 Billion..

PM inaugurates Al-Tuwairqi Steel Mills - thenews.com.pk

The deal was halted by SC temporary because Musharraf accorded them too many concessions!

There seems to be a lot of fanatic arabi loving among your peers to the point that they would degrade themselves by crediting unfounded claims to so-called Prince. Now some real insight into this smarty pants!


Kindly do the maths for his actual donations vs waste of money!


Controversial donation after the September 11 attacks

Immediately after the September 11 attacks, Al Waleed gave a check of $10 million to New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani. He publicized a written statement upon his donation, stating "At times like this, we must address some of the issues that led to such a criminal attack. I believe the government of the United States of America should re-examine its policies in the Middle East and adopt a more balanced stance toward the Palestinian cause." As a result of his statement, Giuliani returned the check.[17]

Al Waleed spoke to a Saudi weekly magazine, regarding the rejection of his check by the mayor: "The whole issue is that I spoke about their position [on the Middle East conflict] and they didn’t like it because there are Jewish pressures and they are afraid of them."


Palestinians
In 2002, Al Waleed donated £18.5 million to the families of Palestinians during a TV telethon following Israeli operations in the West Bank city of Jenin. The telethon was ordered by Saudi King Fahd to help relatives of Palestinian martyrs. The Saudi government maintained the term "martyrs" referred not to suicide bombers but to "Palestinians [who are] victimized by Israeli terror and violence."

Phillips Academy
In 2002, Al Waleed donated $500,000 to help fund the George Herbert Walker Bush Scholarship at Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts.


2004 Indian Ocean earthquake

In 2004, Al Waleed contributed $17 million to victims of the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami.[20]

Western Universities
In March 2008, Al Waleed Bin Talal had donated £8m to build an Islamic studies centre (to bear his name) at Cambridge University. A few months later, on 8 May 2008, he gave £16m to Edinburgh University to fund the "centre for the study of Islam in the contemporary world."

In April 2009, Al Waleed donated $20 million to Harvard University, one of its 25 largest donations. He also donated the same amount to Georgetown University.His donation and others coming from Islamic sources have not been always welcomed due to their effects on academic objectivity and security concerns.
 
^^ it is a iron pelletizing plant not a foundry.. it is based on most advance process technology.

Where as no foundries or rolling mills in Pakistan have their own power plant.. not even the famous historic ittefaq foundary... PSM is another case.

Power plant was not included in the contract with Musharraf... he promised power from KESC power plant, which was just opposite.
It was win win for all.. Pakistan got to sell energy while investor take care about his specialty.
After 300-400 million$ investment, there was no power and gas... available so investor had to invest additionally in power plant and gas compression plant, cost of both plants was more or less same as intial investment.. than was the question to finance its startup... and Koreans were involved.. but the plant lost 3 years in all this fiasco and power plant design, construction and startup.
Company got to pay salaries of all staff... full.
You can do the maths...
chairman.jpg
 
@King Solomon @somebozo and others

What do you think of the reaction Forbes gave in their defense:

Prince Alwaleed And The Curious Case Of Kingdom Holding Stock - Forbes

(text is too long to post it here)

I read the whole report. Basically what they are saying is that the Prince manipulates the share price so that prices are high just before the prices are recorded for Forbes. There are major problems with their argument, however:

1. How would Forbes explain fluctuations of share price in OTHER instances? How about the price surge mid-2009? How about before 2009? If the Prince, as they say, wants his net worth to be high, why didn't he manipulate the share prices pre-2009 to be the richest man in the world? Why did the share price tank in 2008, if the Price was so apt in manipulating and keeping the price high?

2. Granted, only 5% of the stock of Kingdom Holdings is floated in the exchange, the Tadawul (Saudi stock exchange) is not by any means a small market where prices can be manipulated as one wishes. Any instance of overvaluation would see thousands of investors flocking to sell their shares.

3. Now Forbes makes one apparently valid point: The shares are 107 times the trailing earnings (similar to P/E ratio). Now you would ask, why is it overvalued? Besides the assets and liabilities, a company has another thing known as "Goodwill" which increases it's value. Goodwill is merely the brand value and reputation. What is the goodwill of Kingdom Holdings? It's owner is a Prince who has very good connection with the King and other royalty of Saudi Arabia. This is the 'goodwill' value that investors placed on the shares of Kingdom Holdings, as a result of which the shares are trading at 107 times the trailing earnings.

Facebook shares are trading at 1500+ times their P/E ratio. Why? Again, it's the goodwill which makes investors place such valuation in Facebook shares.

4. Lack of objectivity: Could other companies be 'manipulating' their share prices too? Why did they single out the Prince? And their method of valuation of measuring underlying asset's value is laughable - if that were the case Mark Zuckerberg would be worth not even $100 million as opposed to the $5 billion that he is worth today.
 
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Not enough Arab billionaires
Is Forbes' 'rich list' underrepresenting the Middle East’s wealthiest?

On Tuesday, Saudi Arabia’s richest man, Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, publicly complained that he had been done a disservice by the global wealth magazine Forbes. Apparently disgusted that his fortune was tallied at only $20 billion in the new Forbes 2013 rich list — as opposed to his own assessment of $29 billion —Talal accused the magazine of having a negative bias against portfolio valuations on Tadawul, the Saudi Stock Exchange. He then told Forbes that they would no longer be offering them data on his wealth, instead reserving that privilege for rival business news outlet Bloomberg’s ranking of the world’s richest.

Billion dollar cry baby?

While childish his reaction may have appear — though the extra $9 billion would have propelled him from 26th position into the top 10 — does the Saudi billionaire have a point? His statement said “the application of differing standards of proof for different individuals and organizations results in an arbitrary and confusing set of standards that seems demonstrably biased against the Middle East.” While Forbes has issued a full rebuttal, accusing the sheikh of market manipulation, Arabs are not as prominent on the list as you might expect.

The new list includes more names and greater cumulative wealth than ever: some $5.4 trillion shared between 1,426 billionaires. Yet a look at the headcount from the Middle East and North Africa region’s mega-rich suggests underrepresentation. While six men from Lebanon, from the Hariri and Mikati families, are represented, several resource-rich Arab countries including Qatar, Oman and Bahrain suspiciously have no representatives at all. All the Arab countries together have fewer billionaires, according to Forbes, than Turkey.

Looking at the methodology by which Forbes reaches their wealth assessment provides some insight into this. One reason for underrepresentation may be that Forbes is using the dollar as baseline for computing wealth.

As most Middle Eastern economies are closely pegged to the dollar, Lebanese and other regional mega-rich do not see their wealth assessments fluctuate on currencies. However, a strong euro on the day when Forbes takes its net-worth measurements (this year it was apparently February 14) might significantly boost the ranking of a Eurozone billionaire.

While this also affects American billionaires, currencies that are pegged to the dollar are measured by the same standards as Americans without benefitting from the country’s rich economic infrastructure.

On top of this, since stock portfolios play a leading role in the assessment of a billionaire’s net worth, the list effectively ranks equity much more than the average billionaire’s entrepreneurial skills and business acumen. Arab investors such as Talal hold assets in regional stock markets which have seen less appreciation in the past two years than others.

Opening up

Yet there are other, more powerful, reasons why Arabs might be underrepresented on the list, and they reflect more on regional attitudes than on Forbes. Middle Eastern countries are notoriously secretive, with the countries of the region consistently ranked among the worst in terms of transparency. These attitudes are common in business too, with Middle Eastern companies fiercely private.

Not having well-regulated stock markets regimes, which supply a significant stream of information on the wealthiest citizens in developed economies, means that allegations of insider trading abound. Forbes, therefore, may be wary of overestimated Arab wealth.

On top of this some owners are hostile to the notoriety of wealth, which would make them more of a target for anyone from kidnappers and criminal scammers to paparazzi and media. This may partially explain the lack of representation from Gulf countries.

One example of a Lebanese billionaire who was unrecognized by Forbes this year is Fouad Makhzoumi, the pipe manufacturer and owner of Future Group, who told Executive last year that his net worth is $1.5 billion. As he is a private owner and has not had an initial public offering his wealth is likely to be missed.

In realistic terms the Saudi Tadawul is among the most secretive stock markets in the world and there are many barriers against international investors. This isolation and preferential treatment of local investors has drawbacks when it comes to development of wealth on a national level. As such, while Talal has a point about Arab underrepresentation, the opaque-nature of Saudi markets, rather than Forbes’ bias, is more likely the reason for this.

Is Forbes' 'rich list' underrepresenting the Middle East
 
What do you mean all the wealth belongs to arab. The guy has worked his ar$$ off so hard reached where he is today, so please take your hands off his pocket. You don't know him you don't know his history you don't know even what your talking about so you better shut it. Also don't assign yourself as a lawyer on behalf of ''arab'' and find something else poke your nose in.

I,am sure , your burning *** on reality says that u r from a royal Saudi family which is nothing but a ponny pinny of US.

Not enough Arab billionaires
Is Forbes' 'rich list' underrepresenting the Middle East’s wealthiest?

On Tuesday, Saudi Arabia’s richest man, Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, publicly complained that he had been done a disservice by the global wealth magazine Forbes. Apparently disgusted that his fortune was tallied at only $20 billion in the new Forbes 2013 rich list — as opposed to his own assessment of $29 billion —Talal accused the magazine of having a negative bias against portfolio valuations on Tadawul, the Saudi Stock Exchange. He then told Forbes that they would no longer be offering them data on his wealth, instead reserving that privilege for rival business news outlet Bloomberg’s ranking of the world’s richest.

Billion dollar cry baby?

While childish his reaction may have appear — though the extra $9 billion would have propelled him from 26th position into the top 10 — does the Saudi billionaire have a point? His statement said “the application of differing standards of proof for different individuals and organizations results in an arbitrary and confusing set of standards that seems demonstrably biased against the Middle East.” While Forbes has issued a full rebuttal, accusing the sheikh of market manipulation, Arabs are not as prominent on the list as you might expect.

The new list includes more names and greater cumulative wealth than ever: some $5.4 trillion shared between 1,426 billionaires. Yet a look at the headcount from the Middle East and North Africa region’s mega-rich suggests underrepresentation. While six men from Lebanon, from the Hariri and Mikati families, are represented, several resource-rich Arab countries including Qatar, Oman and Bahrain suspiciously have no representatives at all. All the Arab countries together have fewer billionaires, according to Forbes, than Turkey.

Looking at the methodology by which Forbes reaches their wealth assessment provides some insight into this. One reason for underrepresentation may be that Forbes is using the dollar as baseline for computing wealth.

As most Middle Eastern economies are closely pegged to the dollar, Lebanese and other regional mega-rich do not see their wealth assessments fluctuate on currencies. However, a strong euro on the day when Forbes takes its net-worth measurements (this year it was apparently February 14) might significantly boost the ranking of a Eurozone billionaire.

While this also affects American billionaires, currencies that are pegged to the dollar are measured by the same standards as Americans without benefitting from the country’s rich economic infrastructure.

On top of this, since stock portfolios play a leading role in the assessment of a billionaire’s net worth, the list effectively ranks equity much more than the average billionaire’s entrepreneurial skills and business acumen. Arab investors such as Talal hold assets in regional stock markets which have seen less appreciation in the past two years than others.

Opening up

Yet there are other, more powerful, reasons why Arabs might be underrepresented on the list, and they reflect more on regional attitudes than on Forbes. Middle Eastern countries are notoriously secretive, with the countries of the region consistently ranked among the worst in terms of transparency. These attitudes are common in business too, with Middle Eastern companies fiercely private.

Not having well-regulated stock markets regimes, which supply a significant stream of information on the wealthiest citizens in developed economies, means that allegations of insider trading abound. Forbes, therefore, may be wary of overestimated Arab wealth.

On top of this some owners are hostile to the notoriety of wealth, which would make them more of a target for anyone from kidnappers and criminal scammers to paparazzi and media. This may partially explain the lack of representation from Gulf countries.

One example of a Lebanese billionaire who was unrecognized by Forbes this year is Fouad Makhzoumi, the pipe manufacturer and owner of Future Group, who told Executive last year that his net worth is $1.5 billion. As he is a private owner and has not had an initial public offering his wealth is likely to be missed.

In realistic terms the Saudi Tadawul is among the most secretive stock markets in the world and there are many barriers against international investors. This isolation and preferential treatment of local investors has drawbacks when it comes to development of wealth on a national level. As such, while Talal has a point about Arab underrepresentation, the opaque-nature of Saudi markets, rather than Forbes’ bias, is more likely the reason for this.

Is Forbes' 'rich list' underrepresenting the Middle East

The only reason is they are not Jews by blood.
 
All major metal plants and foundries operate on their own powerplants. Their electrical demands are so enormous it would be foolish to expect a connection from the national grid. They are not operating your typical hair dryer or an over my dear. Beside many of these plans and foundries create surplus waste heat which is used to generate electrical power for fulfilling their inhouse demand as well as feeding electricity back to the grid.

Beside the steel plant was built by Al Tuwairqi group not Prince Waleed Bin Talal and the Korean firm only came as an operational partner investing $16 Million.

The total investment at this plant was $300 million not $1 Billion..

PM inaugurates Al-Tuwairqi Steel Mills - thenews.com.pk

The deal was halted by SC temporary because Musharraf accorded them too many concessions!

There seems to be a lot of fanatic arabi loving among your peers to the point that they would degrade themselves by crediting unfounded claims to so-called Prince. Now some real insight into this smarty pants!


Kindly do the maths for his actual donations vs waste of money!


Controversial donation after the September 11 attacks

Immediately after the September 11 attacks, Al Waleed gave a check of $10 million to New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani. He publicized a written statement upon his donation, stating "At times like this, we must address some of the issues that led to such a criminal attack. I believe the government of the United States of America should re-examine its policies in the Middle East and adopt a more balanced stance toward the Palestinian cause." As a result of his statement, Giuliani returned the check.[17]

Al Waleed spoke to a Saudi weekly magazine, regarding the rejection of his check by the mayor: "The whole issue is that I spoke about their position [on the Middle East conflict] and they didn’t like it because there are Jewish pressures and they are afraid of them."


Palestinians
In 2002, Al Waleed donated £18.5 million to the families of Palestinians during a TV telethon following Israeli operations in the West Bank city of Jenin. The telethon was ordered by Saudi King Fahd to help relatives of Palestinian martyrs. The Saudi government maintained the term "martyrs" referred not to suicide bombers but to "Palestinians [who are] victimized by Israeli terror and violence."

Phillips Academy
In 2002, Al Waleed donated $500,000 to help fund the George Herbert Walker Bush Scholarship at Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts.


2004 Indian Ocean earthquake

In 2004, Al Waleed contributed $17 million to victims of the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami.[20]

Western Universities
In March 2008, Al Waleed Bin Talal had donated £8m to build an Islamic studies centre (to bear his name) at Cambridge University. A few months later, on 8 May 2008, he gave £16m to Edinburgh University to fund the "centre for the study of Islam in the contemporary world."

In April 2009, Al Waleed donated $20 million to Harvard University, one of its 25 largest donations. He also donated the same amount to Georgetown University.His donation and others coming from Islamic sources have not been always welcomed due to their effects on academic objectivity and security concerns.

so he donated most of his money to western organization yet they humiliated him, interesting
 

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