Saudi Academic: End Gender Segregation In Islam

[Kuwaiti Girl]

Saudi Academic: End Gender Segregation In Islam
http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/...-islam-lets-make-mosques-similar-to-churches/

TEL AVIV – A Saudi academic has called on Muslims to adapt themselves to the modern age by reforming mosques to be more like churches, with mixed prayers, seating and dim lighting, and to change the “fanatical and sexualized” perception of women by allowing them to take on leadership roles within the religion.

In an interview with liberal Arab website Elaph, published earlier in the year and translated last week by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), Dr. Najat Al-Sa’eed, a Saudi communications lecturer at Zayed University in Dubai, said that “Islam is the only monotheistic religion that has not adapted to the modern age.”

The process of modernization must begin by modifying the rituals of worship, Sa’eed said. She outlined her plan for architectural changes to the internal layout of mosques, so as to include men and women side by side in prayer.

“Islam does not forbid them to mix,” Sa’eed said, noting that the Haj (pilgrimage to Mecca) is mixed as are prayers at the Mecca compound.

Muslims are distinguished by loudness and disorder, and men and women are not accustomed to gathering together in places of worship. Sadly, most Muslims’ perception of women is fanatical and sexualized, far removed from spirituality and rationality. Hence, building mosques of the type [I propose, and having men and women] meet each other in a spiritual environment on a regular basis, will improve the relationship between the sexes and will have a positive cultural impact on society as a whole.

The main goal we should pursue is to enlighten society by studying Islam from a cultural perspective that fosters equality and mutual respect between men and women instead of segregating them as though they come from two different planets. Let’s make mosques similar to churches!

Her description of an ideal mosque does not, however, have women and men sitting together. Instead, Sa’eed envisions a seating area divided into two sections for women and men, and a separate platform divided into two areas for prayers. Sa’eed would also like to see the introduction of dim lighting “to create an atmosphere of spirituality and inner calm.”

Asked whether Muslims would take issue with the idea of chairs in a mosque, Sa’eed answers:

Everything is difficult at first, but I do not understand why Islamists and conservatives should object to seats in mosques when they do not object to the construction of Western-style skyscrapers around the [Grand] Mosque compound in Mecca. … It is unreasonable to object to having seats in a mosque [just] to avoid any resemblance to a church. After all, most moderate clerics preach tolerance and rapprochement between the religions, so why shouldn’t a mosque resemble a church? Everyone [on earth] sits on chairs, and I have never heard that sitting on a chair is forbidden or reprehensible.

“Getting used to sitting in chairs in an orderly manner and praying in soft voices under dim lighting will gradually refine Muslim behavior,” she adds.

While Sa’eed doesn’t think the Arab world is ready yet for female imams – as has happened in Europe – she believes that women should start taking on official roles in Islamic jurisprudence, and Muslim societies should be open to publishing religious books by women and airing religious television programs presented by women.

 

[YeBeWarned]

In Prophet's Time Women were Allowed in Mosques , for listening to Prophets sermons and ask him about daily life problems.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

In Prophet's Time Women were Allowed in Mosques , for listening to Prophets sermons and ask him about daily life problems.

There are many things in Islam that have nothing to do with religion and are mostly cultural or tribal, such as gender segregation, the headscarf, the niqab/burka, the banning of music, etc.

A lot of things were either taken from Nestorian Christians, the Byzantine Empire, or from certain tribes and cultures.

It's a pity when you think about it.

 

[YeBeWarned]

There are many things in Islam that have nothing to do with religion and are mostly cultural or tribal, such as gender segregation, the headscarf, the niqab/burka, the banning of music, etc.

A lot of things were either taken from Nestorian Christians, the Byzantine Empire, or from certain tribes and cultures.

It's a pity when you think about it.

there might be but how does that goes with the thread ? NO
i can say the Same by living Among the Shia all my life, i have seen Shia's doing things which is more close to Hinduism than Islam .. so does that means they are more Hindu than Muslims ? culture does have its effect on Islam but Islam itself is breaker of individual cultures and customs , Islam itself is a Culture .

 

[gangsta_rap]

You do realize that Brietbart is a hate website.

I agree with (some aspects) of the intention of the post though.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

there might be but how does that goes with the thread ? NO
i can say the Same by living Among the Shia all my life, i have seen Shia's doing things which is more close to Hinduism than Islam .. so does that means they are more Hindu than Muslims ? culture does have its effect on Islam but Islam itself is breaker of individual cultures and customs , Islam itself is a Culture .

Well, ironically, some Shia sects are indeed culturally closer to other religions, particularly the ones that emerged in the Levant. They seem to have the same kinds of beliefs and myths as some Christian sects that were highly influenced by Greco-Roman / Mediterranean traditions.

Anyway, I agree with the Saudi academic that Islam says nothing about gender segregation. It also says nothing about wearing the headscarf, niqab, burka, banning music, banning art, etc. A lot of today's controversial/radical Islamic practices have nothing to do with religion and more to do with cultural and/or tribal influences. This is actually a sad thing and is one of many reasons why the religion needs to undergo modernizing reforms today. I'm glad that there are many sane voices even from Saudi Arabia that are calling for much-needed reforms.

 

[Falcon29]

There are many things in Islam that have nothing to do with religion and are mostly cultural or tribal, such as gender segregation, the headscarf, the niqab/burka, the banning of music, etc.

A lot of things were either taken from Nestorian Christians, the Byzantine Empire, or from certain tribes and cultures.

It's a pity when you think about it.

Cultural or tribal? I'm pretty sure separating women and men in mosques, the headscarf, and banning of musical instruments, was all enforced or introduced by the Prophet himself. So people like you need to go pick up some books or avoid indulging in topics you are misinformed about.

 

[raptor22]

there might be but how does that goes with the thread ? NO
i can say the Same by living Among the Shia all my life, i have seen Shia's doing things which is more close to Hinduism than Islam .. so does that means they are more Hindu than Muslims ? culture does have its effect on Islam but Islam itself is breaker of individual cultures and customs , Islam itself is a Culture .

 

[Attila the Hun]

There are many things in Islam that have nothing to do with religion and are mostly cultural or tribal, such as gender segregation, the headscarf, the niqab/burka, the banning of music, etc.

A lot of things were either taken from Nestorian Christians, the Byzantine Empire, or from certain tribes and cultures.

The Byzantine Empire had music.

 

[Noodle Panda]

There are many things in Islam that have nothing to do with religion and are mostly cultural or tribal, such as gender segregation, the headscarf, the niqab/burka, the banning of music, etc.

A lot of things were either taken from Nestorian Christians, the Byzantine Empire, or from certain tribes and cultures.

It's a pity when you think about it.

I'm sorry but much of your post is really just misinformation.

Gender segregation, the headscarf, niqab/full body garments and the banning of music, are very much Islamic and can be traced back to either the Qur'an or hadith.

For example, people who say music is haram could simply just quote the following hadith:

“From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk (by men), the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful…. Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection.” [Sahih Bukhari]

LOL at breitbart. The main source for Neonazis. Fvck these Neonazis and their fvcked up understanding of anything they dislike. These are the same people who think it is their biblical right to own black slaves. It is funny these fvckers are worried about Islam when their churches have become a safe haven for pedophiles.

I was really flummoxed that the thread starter is trying to teach people about Islam by posting an article from an extremely right wing website which has a reputation for hating Muslims. Mind boggling.

 

[WarFariX]

Cultural or tribal? I'm pretty sure separating women and men in mosques, the headscarf, and banning of musical instruments, was all enforced or introduced by the Prophet himself. So people like you need to go pick up some books or avoid indulging in topics you are misinformed about.

LOL at breitbart. The main source for Neonazis. Fvck these Neonazis and their fvcked up understanding of anything they dislike. These are the same people who think it is their biblical right to own black slaves. It is funny these fvckers are worried about Islam when their churches have become a safe haven for pedophiles.

I'm sorry but much of your post is really just misinformation.

Gender segregation, the headscarf, niqab/full body garments and the banning of music, are very much Islamic and can be traced back to either the Qur'an or hadith.

For example, people who say music is haram could simply just quote the following hadith:

“From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk (by men), the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful…. Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection.” [Sahih Bukhari]



I was really flummoxed that the thread starter is trying to teach people about Islam by posting an article from an extremely right wing website which has a reputation for hating Muslims. Mind boggling.

I think islamic education (the essential one) has lost its power among muslims...we all love scientific education but the essential islamic education as a must of religion must be given too...if not given , the results will be similar to the thinking of the op

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/...-islam-lets-make-mosques-similar-to-churches/

Weather Channel Destroys Breitbart Over BS Climate Change Story
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...back-at-breitbart_us_58472455e4b016eb81d89944


The same site that called climate change fake...

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

Cultural or tribal? I'm pretty sure separating women and men in mosques, the headscarf, and banning of musical instruments, was all enforced or introduced by the Prophet himself. So people like you need to go pick up some books or avoid indulging in topics you are misinformed about.

This is a historical fact, by the way. The early Arab Muslims adopted the burka/niqab (i.e. the veil) from eastern Christians, particularly the Christians of Bahrain (i.e. eastern Arabia) and the Christians of the Byzantine Empire. In fact, even the black color that's normally associated with the veil was taken from the eastern Christians. As a case in point, early Arab Muslim women mostly wore white garments, not black garments. Things like black garments and the burka/niqab were mostly taken from the Christians of eastern Arabia and the Byzantine realm (e.g. the Levant). The eastern Christians were considered to be more strict in enforcing these rules and dress codes than their Muslim counterparts. In any case, the veil was a cultural product of the Eastern Mediterranean World that predated Islam and was worn by the elite women of Byzantium, Greece and Persia during pre-Islamic times.

The Quran makes no mention of gender segregation, music or specific dress codes, by the way. The Quran only states that both men and women should dress modestly and cover their private parts. Specifically, it tells men to cover their private parts and tells women to cover their breasts. That's all the Quran says when it comes to how men and women should dress. The Quran has specific instructions for the Islamic prophet and his wives, but those instructions don't apply to other people. By the way, a lot of Sufis and other Muslim sects have free mixing between men and women in places of worship. It exists in places like the Caucasus, Turkey, Albania, and even in Egypt.

There's a lot of room for Islamic reform and liberal interpretations of Islam since the Quran is the ultimate authority for Muslims and the Quran itself makes no mention of strict dress codes, banning music, gender segregation, etc. Most radical interpretations of Islamic texts are subjective and based on dubious narrations anyway.

 

[Noodle Panda]

This is a historical fact, by the way. The early Arab Muslims adopted the burka/niqab (i.e. the veil) from eastern Christians, particularly the Christians of Bahrain (i.e. eastern Arabia) and the Christians of the Byzantine Empire. In fact, even the black color that's normally associated with the veil was taken from the eastern Christians. As a case in point, early Arab Muslim women mostly wore white garments, not black garments. Things like black garments and the burka/niqab were mostly taken from the Christians of eastern Arabia and the Byzantine realm (e.g. the Levant). The eastern Christians were considered to be more strict in enforcing these rules and dress codes than their Muslim counterparts. In any case, the veil was a cultural product of the Eastern Mediterranean World that predated Islam and was worn by the elite women of Byzantium, Greece and Persia during pre-Islamic times.

The Quran makes no mention of gender segregation, music or specific dress codes, by the way. The Quran only states that both men and women should dress modestly and cover their private parts. Specifically, it tells men to cover their private parts and tells women to cover their breasts. That's all the Quran says when it comes to how men and women should dress. The Quran has specific instructions for the Islamic prophet and his wives, but those instructions don't apply to other people. By the way, a lot of Sufis and other Muslim sects have free mixing between men and women in places of worship. It exists in places like the Caucasus, Turkey, Albania, and even in Egypt.

There's a lot of room for Islamic reform and liberal interpretations of Islam since the Quran is the ultimate authority for Muslims and the Quran itself makes no mention of strict dress codes, banning music, gender segregation, etc. Most radical interpretations of Islamic texts are subjective and based on dubious narrations anyway.

You come across as someone who is quite ashamed of their religion. However I'm not surprised by your inferiority complex towards your own faith. There are Muslims like you in the west too with the same weak mindset (although these types of people are loathed and in the minority).

Have you even read the verse about female dress code properly? It tells them to put a portion of their head cover/veil over their bosom. And here you are, trying to argue against things like the headscarf.

Some sufis also do the moon dance in the mosque (there's a video on it), do you want Muslims to emulate that too? Just because some groups or individuals does X thing, it doesn't mean it's automatically allowed in Islamic.

They aren't dubious narrations. How does some random girl, who doesn't know the basics of her religion, suddenly know how to differentiate between what's reliable and what's not? How did you acquire such knowledge? Please tell us how you became more knowledgeable than people like Imam Bukhari and the vast vast majority of other scholars. I'd love to know.

There is no room whatsoever for people who seek to change Islam. The fact that you want to reform Islam says it all. Islam isn't a religion where any random Tom, Dick or Harry, can come along and believe what they want about it. It doesn't work that way, it has never worked that way. Allah's word is greater than your word, you can not change it. If you think you know better than Allah and you want to change His religion, then there's a severe problem with your faith.

"Radical interpretations". I think you actually mean "core Islamic beliefs which I, Kuwaiti Girl, disagree with and now want to distort".

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

You come across as someone who is quite ashamed of their religion. However I'm not surprised by your inferiority complex towards your own faith. There are Muslims like you in the west too with the same weak mindset.

This is why people shouldn't jump to conclusions. I'm actually an agnostic. I never claimed I knew the secrets of life. I don't follow any religion. And unlike a lot of religious people I know, I'm not arrogant enough to pretend that I know the secrets of life just so that I can rub it in other people's faces.

Anyway, I've studied the Abrahamic religions extensively, particularly Islam. I know very well what the Quran says and doesn't say. I'm not talking about the narrations since I'm more interested in what the Quran has to say about these issues.

Have you even read the verse about female dress code properly? It tells them to put their head covers/veils over bosoms. And here you are, trying to argue against things like the headscarf.

First of all, there's a huge difference between the burka/niqab (a face-covering) and the head-covering that was mentioned in the Quranic verse that you were referring to. The Quran says absolutely nothing about covering women's faces or wearing the burka/niqab. There are two verses in the Quran that talk specifically about how women should dress, by the way. In both verses, the Quran emphasizes that women, just like men, must cover their chests and private parts. One of these verses automatically assumes that a woman is already wearing a head-covering in public, and instructs the women to use their headscarves to cover their breasts. Notice that the Quran specifically instructs women and men to cover their private parts and chests only, but it does not specifically instruct women to cover their heads. It only assumes that women already have their heads covered because, back in those days, all women around the world covered their heads in public, regardless of their religious affiliations. So there's no verse in the Quran that specifically instructs women to cover their heads, let alone their faces.

They aren't dubious narrations. How does some random girl, who doesn't know the basics of her religion, suddenly know how to differentiate between what's reliable and what's not? How did you acquire such knowledge? Please tell us how you became more knowledgeable than people like Imam Bukhari and the vast vast majority of other scholars. I'd love to know.

I merely pointed out what the Quran said and did not say. As for the narrations, a lot of them are controversial and contradictory anyway. Some of them are so controversial that none of us will ever think they were authentic, regardless of our religious views. That's especially true for the narrations that spoke about adult suckling. So, really, I don't waste my time with narrations. I mostly study the Quran, and I personally like the beliefs of Quranist Muslims.

There is no room whatsoever for people who seek to change Islam. The fact that you want to reform Islam says it all. Islam isn't a religion where any random Tom, Dick or Harry, can come along and believe what they want about it. It doesn't work that way, it has never worked that way. Allah's word is greater than your word, you can not change it. If you think you know better than Allah and you want to change His religion, then there's a severe problem with your Islam.

"Radical interpretations". I think you actually mean "core Islamic beliefs which I, Kuwaiti Girl, disagree with and now want to distort".

I don't want to change anything. I personally don't want to change any religion because I don't identify with any of them. But I'm merely saying that the Quran can be compatible with modern times if we listen to the likes of the Saudi academic and many other reformists. They're not necessarily redefining Islam. One could argue that they're reinterpreting Islam, and their interpretations are probably much closer to the authentic teachings of the Quran. Everything in life is subject to interpretations anyway. I have more respect for those who interpret Islam in a sensible way than those who claim they're practicing the real Islam by promoting controversial/radical teachings that ironically have no basis in the Quran itself.