S.Korea to install 300MW solar projects

[cloud_9]

The problem is the initial setup. You have to import these panels, and while China is easy, it is also not too much reliable. So most people who have some contact in Germany or Europe get German panels.

Well Exim bank of China provides companies with loans to setup Solar Power plants which Pakistan can greatly benefit from.
European or American Solar panels being better than Chinese or Indian is just a misconception.Half of the Indian capacity is based on Thin film technology which is mostly dominated by Chinese manufacturers and the rest is based on silicon technology which is dominated by Indian manufacturers.Chinese panel's are cheaper because they are highly subsidised by the Chinese government.

 

[Jango]

I assure you, German is definitely better than Chinese.

Although it is a case of what you pay is what you get with the Chinese, but Chinese panels have been known to malfunction after sometime, while German are known to be more reliable.

BTW, if anybody lives in Islamabad, the signal in front of Serena hotel and a tubewell right beside it,and that is powered by solar panels i believe.

 

[Damadji]

As SK have signed MoU with Balochistan government who will get the whole electricity out of it??? Balochistan???

 

[Jango]

As SK have signed MoU with Balochistan government who will get the whole electricity out of it??? Balochistan???

Will depend on the location i think.

Would be interesting to see how much electricity Baluchistan needs and how much it produces. But this plant would be near Quetta, so I think Quetta's needs will be fulfilled.

Sidenote: Why does Shahbaz Sharif not do things like these? Sign independent power agreements with companies rather than crying of injustice all the time?

 

[illusion8]

You seem to know about Solar power, in India there is a major solar project in Gujrat state, Pakistan and India are solar resource rich nations so why is solar power so ignored esp in Pakistan? is it the cost? surely a local manfacturing facility will bring the cost down. What are the technical hurdles? Thank u.

Solar power generation is costly because the panels need constant replacements, end of the day a unit of electricity produced from solar works out to INR. 7-8 and India's power corporations buys it ranging from Rs.10-14, while energy generated from all others i.e. Hydel, wind, Thermal and Nuclear works out to 2-3 Rs. per unit, the normal selling price in India to us consumers commercial, Industrial and Residential ranges from Rs.5 to Rs.7.

So, generating energy in India from Hydel, Thermal, Nuclear and wind makes money for the corporations,
while generating the same from Solar and waste management makes double losses, but India still pushes for a percentage of energy to be generated from solar or waste because it gets back carbon credits that compensates for the loss on the long term.

Now, Pakistan is under a severe energy crisis and your power sector most probably don't have money to pay your normal thermal or hydel power generators so how do you expect them to pay double the price for solar? your immediate concern should be operating your available capacities to the fullest which I assume is higher than the required capacity.

Pakistan does not have heavy polluting industries to vie for carbon credits so you do not make money buying clean energy, though you can make money selling your credits to other countries - but the focus should be on not increasing capacity rather should be on optimizing production from available capacity.

Solar energy per unit is costlier than what the normal consumer pays for 1 unit in both India and Pakistan hence the non feasibility of solar energy generation in a big way in South Asia.

Also. Manufacturing them in house - which India already does does not reduce the cost of a panel - rather it is costlier than importing from say China and we cannot match their prices, wholly because their industries are highly subsidized.

 

[Jango]

The current power demand is approximately around 500 MW in Balochistan, this project if completed by around 2014-15, could help Balochistan alot. Balochistan may be having the lowest loadshedding then, if this project goes all well.

BTW, just read a study, and power demand of Punjab expected to be 30,000 MW in 2025. That is aboslutely huge. Wonder what the government is doing to counter this.

A single Bunji dam, and a Bhasha isn't going to be enough for supporting the huge demand of Pakistan (which will be around 43000 MW by 2025-conservative estimates). Single projects aren't going to do the stuff.

If we want to have a loadshedding free Pakistan by 2025, we need to initiate mega projects now, on an urgent basis, We would need 2 or 3 Bunji dams completed by 2025. And a comprehensive power policy. The line losses only are 25%.

Although 60 projects, amounting to approximately 16000 MW are expected to be online in 10 years. Electricity potential of coal is 100,000 MW at 536 million tons of coal per year while there are 185 billion tons of deposits. And total hydro production potential is estimated at 59,733 MW. So there is a bright side as well.

 

[Jango]

Solar power generation is costly because the panels need constant replacements, end of the day a unit of electricity produced from solar works out to INR. 7-8 and India's power corporations buys it ranging from Rs.10-14, while energy generated from all others i.e. Hydel, wind, Thermal and Nuclear works out to 2-3 Rs. per unit, the normal selling price in India to us consumers commercial, Industrial and Residential ranges from Rs.5 to Rs.7.

So, generating energy in India from Hydel, Thermal, Nuclear and wind makes money for the corporations,
while generating the same from Solar and waste management makes double losses, but India still pushes for a percentage of energy to be generated from solar or waste because it gets back carbon credits that compensates for the loss on the long term.

Now, Pakistan is under a severe energy crisis and your power sector most probably don't have money to pay your normal thermal or hydel power generators so how do you expect them to pay double the price for solar? your immediate concern should be operating your available capacities to the fullest which I assume is higher than the required capacity.

Pakistan does not have heavy polluting industries to vie for carbon credits so you do not make money buying clean energy, though you can make money selling your credits to other countries - but the focus should be on not increasing capacity rather should be on optimizing production from available capacity.

Solar energy per unit is costlier than what the normal consumer pays for 1 unit in both India and Pakistan hence the non feasibility of solar energy generation in a big way in South Asia.

Also. Manufacturing them in house - which India already does does not reduce the cost of a panel - rather it is costlier than importing from say China and we cannot match their prices, wholly because their industries are highly subsidized.

You are talking about electricity supplied by a company, which mass produces solar energy.

I am talking about it on the individual level, and the examples that I have seen are doing very well off. As I said, after the initial investment, which was recovered in about 1.5-2 years, they are now doing well off and don't need to pay their electricity bills, along with the added bills of generator. They are saving money, and only need to change the batteries and a periodic maintenance, which does not offset the balance of expenditure on bills before-savings now.

Some news houses, small villages in FATA, and some 40-50 houses in Sindh i think are running on Solar energy with some government input. While numerous others have done it on their own.

 

[cloud_9]

I assure you, German is definitely better than Chinese.

Maybe this might help.
China overshadows European solar industry

An estimated 80-percent of solar panels in Germany come from China.

Polysilicon from Germany, machines manufactured in Germany and special-purpose glass delivered from Germany - solar panels produced in China are manufactured with products designed, built or manufactured in Germany.

Huge demand of Pakistan (which will be around 43000 MW by 2025-conservative estimates).

The present computed peak demand of the country for the year 2010 is 20223 MW, and it will become 45398 MW in year 2019-20 and 134814 MW in 2034-35, which highlights, the corresponding growth of 9.05% and 6.85% in normal scenario

You should be looking for 100K MW generation capacity to be self sufficent by 2025.

You are talking about electricity supplied by a company, which mass produces solar energy.

I am talking about it on the individual level, and the examples that I have seen are doing very well off. As I said, after the initial investment, which was recovered in about 1.5-2 years, they are now doing well off and don't need to pay their electricity bills, along with the added bills of generator.

Small project are fine for far flung areas which cannot be connected to the main grid because of feasibility reasons but big Solar Parks are the only solution for cost effective solar energy production..

 

[illusion8]

You are talking about electricity supplied by a company, which mass produces solar energy.

I am talking about it on the individual level, and the examples that I have seen are doing very well off. As I said, after the initial investment, which was recovered in about 1.5-2 years, they are now doing well off and don't need to pay their electricity bills, along with the added bills of generator. They are saving money, and only need to change the batteries and a periodic maintenance, which does not offset the balance of expenditure on bills before-savings now.

Some news houses, small villages in FATA, and some 40-50 houses in Sindh i think are running on Solar energy with some government input. While numerous others have done it on their own.

well those small units could be helpful to generate some electricity to power couple of lights at homes and street lights in the villages but they are cost effective temporarily, periodical replacement is costly, also if the villages are in interior far flung areas with no roads then you have to factor in the cost of regular maintenance personnel salaries and traveling to those areas, again small units cannot produce enough energy to power a tube well motor, how much power does a typical tube well motor require?

The Karnataka Vikas Grameen Bank (KVGB) has declared 100 villages under its jurisdiction ‘solar villages'.

These villages, which were deprived of power supply, have been successful in having the households illuminated by installing solar power systems, making use of the KVGB's ‘Vikas Kiran' credit scheme to promote and popularise solar energy in rural areas.

Of these villages, the highest number — 38 — are in Belgaum district. Bijapur and Haveri districts have 13 ‘solar villages' each; Dharwad and Bagalkot 9; Uttara Kannada 7; Dakshina Kannada 6; Udupi 3; and Gadag 2.

More than 34,100 households have benefited from the scheme. Anjaneya Prasad, Executive Director, SyndicateBank, declared these villages ‘solar villages' at a function at Devagiri, a hamlet near here, on Wednesday. He appreciated the bank's initiatives to popularise solar energy. KVGB chairman C. Sambasiva Reddy said loans for solar facilities given to the poor had facilitated the process of financial inclusion in rural areas. Micro-financing of solar products in rural areas did not help, as it did not facilitate asset creation.

This is the scheme that is implemented in villages in rural sector in Karnataka - that particular scheme was funded by the state and centre and costed Rs.10,000 crores - that's USD.2 billion.

Investments will be recovered partially at a deferred period of 10 years and is done as more of a social cause.

 

[Damadji]

The current power demand is approximately around 500 MW in Balochistan, this project if completed by around 2014-15, could help Balochistan alot. Balochistan may be having the lowest loadshedding then, if this project goes all well.

BTW, just read a study, and power demand of Punjab expected to be 30,000 MW in 2025. That is aboslutely huge. Wonder what the government is doing to counter this.

A single Bunji dam, and a Bhasha isn't going to be enough for supporting the huge demand of Pakistan (which will be around 43000 MW by 2025-conservative estimates). Single projects aren't going to do the stuff.

If we want to have a loadshedding free Pakistan by 2025, we need to initiate mega projects now, on an urgent basis, We would need 2 or 3 Bunji dams completed by 2025. And a comprehensive power policy. The line losses only are 25%.

Although 60 projects, amounting to approximately 16000 MW are expected to be online in 10 years. Electricity potential of coal is 100,000 MW at 536 million tons of coal per year while there are 185 billion tons of deposits. And total hydro production potential is estimated at 59,733 MW. So there is a bright side as well.

1. pakistan should learn from India we are building UMPP - The Ultra Mega Power projects, each with a capacity of 4000 megawatts or above.

2. Based on supercritical technology, 16,000 MW of capacity has been contracted through the competitive bidding process for UMPPs.

3. The average tariff for these projects is in the range of 2 to 3 Rs per unit which is much lower than the recent cost plus tariffs.

4. Every 4000 MW UMPP power plants costs US$ 3.5 billion each.

Tata Power's Mundra ultra mega power project starts operation - Economic Times

 

[Matrixx]

If Pakistan can get the technology transfer, that was better.

Congratulations to Pakistan.

How come they did not buy from China ......

 

[Jango]

1. pakistan should learn from India we are building UMPP - The Ultra Mega Power projects, each with a capacity of 4000 megawatts or above.

2. Based on supercritical technology, 16,000 MW of capacity has been contracted through the competitive bidding process for UMPPs.

3. The average tariff for these projects is in the range of 2 to 3 Rs per unit which is much lower than the recent cost plus tariffs.

4. Every 4000 MW UMPP power plants costs US$ 3.5 billion each.

Tata Power's Mundra ultra mega power project starts operation - Economic Times

Well, Bunji dam has 7000 MW capacity i think.

You should be looking for 100K MW generation capacity to be self sufficent by 2025.

http://misl.org/downloads/Power_Generation_Pakistan.pdf

This is the link i referred to.

Punjab: The current power demand in the Punjab is
about 7,027 MW which is expected to rise to 29,103
MW in 2024-25 under the most conservative growth
rate of 6.1%.
 Sindh: The current power demand of 2,642 MW in
Sindh is expected to rise to 10,993 MW in 2024-25.
 NWFP: The current power demand of 1,697 MW in
NWFP is expected to rise to 7,018 MW in 2024-25.
 Balochistan: In Balochistan, the current power
demand of 474 MW is expected to rise to 1,964 MW in
2024-25.

 Tarbela – 3478 MW
 Mangla – 1000 MW
 Warsak – 240 MW
 Chashma – 187 MW
 Ghazi Barotha – 1450 MW.
 Total hydro potential is estimated at 59,773 MW

One of the world’s largest reserves, estimated
at over 185 billion tons of lignite coal
 Electricity generation potential of 100,000 MW,
at an estimated consumption of 536 million
tons/yr
 Investment of $94 million was made last year
for the development of Thar Coal Infrastructure
 150 MW plant currently being operated by
WAPDA on Lakhra coal

well those small units could be helpful to generate some electricity to power couple of lights at homes and street lights in the villages but they are cost effective temporarily, periodical replacement is costly, also if the villages are in interior far flung areas with no roads then you have to factor in the cost of regular maintenance personnel salaries and traveling to those areas, again small units cannot produce enough energy to power a tube well motor, how much power does a typical tube well motor require?

I am not talking about far flung areas, the examples that i mentioned are in cities like Lahore and suburbs of Islamabad.

Will get more data on the tubewells later as well. Although some tubewells were inaugurated by Shahbaz Sharif, and also some in Islamabad are operational.

 

[illusion8]

Well, Bunji dam has 7000 MW capacity i think.



http://misl.org/downloads/Power_Generation_Pakistan.pdf

This is the link i referred to.









I am not talking about far flung areas, the examples that i mentioned are in cities like Lahore and suburbs of Islamabad.

Will get more data on the tubewells later as well. Although some tubewells were inaugurated by Shahbaz Sharif, and also some in Islamabad are operational.

Yeah lot of solar lights, water heaters etc are available in the market, nowadays, you don't need those bulky solar panels of old, the newer ones are similar to sun screens that one puts up on car and house windows, these units can power up a house - again mostly only the lights - they can complement normal electricity supply lines and can reduce power bills by upto 25%. But to power up all appliances at home you need bigger solar units which takes up a lot of space which normally is lacking in an urban setup.

 

[cloud_9]

http://misl.org/downloads/Power_Generation_Pakistan.pdf

According to that report the total demand is 13300 MW and the total installed capacity is 21800 MW.It's hard to believe that you will face load shedding when your demand is 60% of what you can produce.

This is the report which I quoted from.
http://www.ntdc.com.pk/EDF20112035.pdf

 

[Jango]

According to that report the total demand is 13300 MW and the total installed capacity is 21800 MW.It's hard to believe that you will face load shedding when your demand is 60% of what you can produce.

This is the report which I quoted from.
http://www.ntdc.com.pk/EDF20112035.pdf

The demand is true, and the installed capacity is also true.

That's the beauty of it! pakistan is the only country which has the installed capacity but not enough production. The case here is that there is not enough money.

Wapda is in debt to PSO, the IPP's have there problems, PEPCO is in debt to WAPDA, and alot of other organizations. Every department is in debt to another and a vicious cycle. There is the problem of economy not producing enough money so that electricity could be produced. people don't pay bills, etc etc and there is shortage of funds and money to buy oil.

There are only 2-3 big dams, and they are getting reduced in capacity day by day. The recent Mangla upraising has increased the capacity a bit, but still there is long way to go.

Yeah lot of solar lights, water heaters etc are available in the market, nowadays, you don't need those bulky solar panels of old, the newer ones are similar to sun screens that one puts up on car and house windows, these units can power up a house - again mostly only the lights - they can complement normal electricity supply lines and can reduce power bills by upto 25%. But to power up all appliances at home you need bigger solar units which takes up a lot of space which normally is lacking in an urban setup.

people with houses of 2 A/C's, lights, and TV fan etc etc are running there houses on Solar, and as I said, recovered the cost in a couple of years, although they still have a electricity line and do often get support from there, but not enough to drastically increase the bill.

A person who pays 80k of electricity bills a month, then also the 20k cost of gas generator, feels better to install solar panels in his house. That is what i have seen.

Small compliments, like Solar water heater, and other things can also do wonders to your electricity and gas bill in the winter.