Rusting anchor: The creation & mutation of a national ideology

[doppelganger]

Evil Hindu Baniya

Were you there at Kausarbaug? I looked all over for you man.

 

[I.R.A]

My useless paindu friend has been lying to me then.

Ahh man that cave you live in is seriously distorting your view of the world, people are feeding you false propaganda come visit Pakistan I will take you to places, that will make your jaw fall down and you will feel India is so backward and conservative.

Evil Hindu Baniya

Awww come on don't do that okay, that is not right ........ you knew I was joking with him and kept it between me and him only

 

[doppelganger]

Ahh man that cave you live in is seriously distorting your view of the world, people are feeding you false propaganda come visit Pakistan I will take you to places, that will make your jaw fall down and you will feel India is so backward and conservative.

It was an innocent comment I made to her. She wears pants and a shirt blouse to college. I commented I have never seen her in a skirt or a dress. So she said even in college (one of Pakistan's top universities incidentally, she's also a med student) if she were to wear something like that, it would attract too much unwelcome attention and some not very nice reactions as well.

 

[I.R.A]

It was an innocent comment I made to her. She wears pants and a shirt blouse to college. I commented I have never seen her in a skirt or a dress. So she said even in college (one of Pakistan's top universities incidentally, she's also a med student) if she were to wear something like that, it would attract too much unwelcome attention and some not very nice reactions as well.

On serious note it is up to one's own self how to dress and make up. I would prefer decent dressing over vulgar or too revealing.

 

[Paksanity]

....and we are discussing women garments on a thread where a very good debate could have developed!

@doppelganger Are you sure you are not a woman? Because I have only seen women so much obsessed with clothes.

 

[doppelganger]

....and we are discussing women garments on a thread where a very good debate could have developed!

@doppelganger Are you sure you are not a woman? Because I have only seen women so much obsessed with clothes.

Sure. As off 15 odd minutes ago.

 

[I.R.A]

Sure. As off 15 odd minutes ago.

and if you are a woman than looking at your avatar and what I have been seeing in your comments, you are one bad a** L******

 

[Paksanity]

One thing India should take from this article... It isn't easy to turn around a society once it sets course at religious intolerance. For a society as large and as diverse as India's, it will be very very difficult course correction. Ultra nationalism based on Hindu identity is good for rallying support in elections and may win you three consecutive terms but effects will show after a generation. Like in Pakistan they are showing after about 25 years from when these seeds were sowed by Gen Zia. And there was good progress on economic and military capability. It was a time of plenty. But then the monster was in its cocoon, sleeping and growing all the time. So I hope you guys take note of that.

As for us, well there is lot more to take from it. But bottom line remains that we are unique as a nation as others are. And I find reasons to be proud of as a Pakistani. I do not agree with the author on many points. In an effort to make his point for bashing Pakistan he conveniently left out few details. For example how the social and economic divide was much deeper at the time of creation than it is today. Very ideals that he is portraying as heroes of Pakistan's true identity actually worked hard to suppress labor and farmers. Rise of religious sentiments has its roots in that socio-economic divide. Religious parties gave voice to common man when no one in elite political system was ready to accommodate him. Nefarious and poisonous as the intention of JI and JUI was, our politicians from center right and centre left have to bear their portion of the blame.

 

[doppelganger]

One thing India should take from this article... It isn't easy to turn around a society once it sets course at religious intolerance. For a society as large and as diverse as India's, it will be very very difficult course correction. Ultra nationalism based on Hindu identity is good for rallying support in elections and may win you three consecutive terms but effects will show after a generation. Like in Pakistan they are showing after about 25 years from when these seeds were sowed by Gen Zia. And there was good progress on economic and military capability. It was a time of plenty. But then the monster was in its cocoon, sleeping and growing all the time. So I hope you guys take note of that.

I appreciate this post of yours, and would as an Indian take a lot more heed of it than Obama mouthing off to his Christian audience yesterday.

On a completely different level, last night on NDTV Pranoy (grand baba of Indian TV journalists) was doing a feature on VIP culture in our country and how common everyday Indians in different cities stand up against mocked up incidents on a candid camera type of setting. Of VIPs being obnoxious and rude and throwing their weight around. Was really heartening to see that our countrymen and women have some serious balls. I for instance would definitely not take pangas with drunk politically connected goons in the Punjab for one. Guns being so commonplace there.

On the same show they showed a really hilarious (and equally heart warming) clipof a Pakistani airlines flight that had gotten held up by Rehman Malik and a doctor crony of his and how the passengers just ripped into him when he arrived. The way they spoke and the things they grumbled about, one could close ones eyes and easily think it was India (minus the over-elaborate "sahab"s and "janaab"s .... LOL).

There is a lot we still share, whether guys here would agree openly or not.

 

[Paksanity]

I appreciate this post of yours, and would as an Indian take a lot more heed of it than Obama mouthing off to his Christian audience yesterday.

On a completely different level, last night on NDTV Pranoy (grand baba of Indian TV journalists) was doing a feature on VIP culture in our country and how common everyday Indians in different cities stand up against mocked up incidents on a candid camera type of setting. Of VIPs being obnoxious and rude and throwing their weight around. Was really heartening to see that our countrymen and women have some serious balls. I for instance would definitely not take pangas with drunk politically connected goons in the Punjab for one. Guns being so commonplace there.

On the same show they showed a really hilarious (and equally heart warming) clipof a Pakistani airlines flight that had gotten held up by Rehman Malik and a doctor crony of his and how the passengers just ripped into him when he arrived. The way they spoke and the things they grumbled about, once could close ones eyes and easily think it was India.

There is a lot we still share, whether guys here would agree openly or not.

Rehman Malik was forced out of that flight actually by the passengers. And sure I agree with problems of political elite class which is common to many countries.

 

[doppelganger]

Rehman Malik was forced out of that flight actually by the passengers. And sure I agree with problems of political elite class which is common to many countries.

Yup. That was the one. I enjoyed watching that. Man the passengers were infuriated, and stubbornly dogged!

The larger point I am trying to make is that underneath the jingoism, most Indian common folk do not take any pleasure in what Pakistan has done to itself. And the well of self satisfied even smug vindication has long since dried up.