Russia’s Sukhoi T-50 Fighter about to Enter Service

[Kal Muah]

lolz even you dont feel little shame typing this .Any ways i will start with this HAL is the worst performing manufacturing facility in the world .SU30 are mostly in parts ans HAL is doing a shity thing assembling it .REgarding topic PAK FA there are no chances for Indians to acquire this jet as already too many dissatisfied reports are done by your expersts so weather they are in competent or corrupt .MIG 29 to UBL upgrade proved to be a biggest scam Russians did to you ,India paid all the development cost so yea it was a brave decision after all . Some other deals which Indians already have done so far

RAFALE
S400
PAK FA
LOCAL MISSILES SAMs

so list of incompetencies are so big so slap is back at your face

Yes yes HAL, ISRO, DRDO all are worst performers and everyone scams India, while Pakistan is rising to the TOP. There, i said it, now you can take a break from your frustration and have peace

 

[randomradio]

Both British and Norwegian pilots have:

That's an American F-35.

They've been training on USMC F-35s too:

So yes, F-35 partners have been allowed that.

All the foreign pilots from partner nations are operational pilots, who are undergoing training. I'm talking about test pilots. The F-35 has no foreign test pilot on the SDD prototypes.

What IAF is asking for is access to PAK FA SDDs. It's a big deal for a country to allow foreign pilots to fly their prototypes. Especially Russia which has laws that don't allow foreign pilots to fly military aircraft over Russian airspace. They are trying to work around that in order to provide a few test flights on existing prototypes.

Not only that. The US made a rule saying they will release the F-35's tech specs only after a country has committed to purchasing the aircraft.

So no, F-35 partners have not been allowed that. The first British pilot flew only in 2010, that's 15 years after Britain made an official commitment to join the program.

"In December 2015 Russia made a new offer on the delivery of Sukhoi T-50 (PAK FA) fighter jets to India. Under the new offer, India would have to pay $3.7 billion, instead of $6 billion, for the technological know-how and three prototypes of PAK FA fighters. But the Indian Air Force (IAF) remains opposed to the idea. A senior IAF official said, “We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.”

I really dont know how FGFA has become cost effective and also accepted by IAF in just few months.

Plz note that I really am not engaging in some Vs or intended bashing thing. Am just connecting the missing strings as per available info and i acknowledge that U surely have more info than me.

Peace

The contract negotiations were on hold since 2013-14. Basically, contract negotiations ended in 2013-14, but MoD put the project on hold based on two reasons.

- IAF did not want the govt to stop the Rafale program. They forced delays on the PAK FA program so the Rafale is completed first.

- IAF had a lot of questions that they want answered. There were about 20-30 questions which the Russians took a long time to answer. All the questions were answered by end 2015. Basically, Indian MoD told Russia that negotiations will not continue unless all questions were answered. After they were answered, Parrikar resumed negotiations in Jan/Feb 2016. Negotiations finished last month apparently, and now the contracts going through bureaucratic procedures.

FGFA is not cost effective. It is more than 2.5 times the cost of a MKI. Unit flyaway cost is about $225M. That's basically more than the F-22 and F-35 combined.

There hasn't been a single prototype of FGFA.
How delusional are the Indians who claim India is "about to" buy squadrons of the same.

There are three versions of PAK FA.

- The first is the one that has almost finished test flights and will be entering serial production soon.

- The second is the Russian version of a new PAK FA model.

- The third is the Indian version of the second model, followed by MKIzation.

The first model will be ready for induction by 2018. The second model is expected in 2021. The third model is expected in 2024.

IAF has the choice of going for the first or second model while they are waiting for their specific model to arrive. They may exercise this choice for at least 3 squadrons. Or even 1 squadron, like they did in the Su-30MKI program.

The first model alone is many times superior to the Su-35 and is expected to cost a little over $100M based on Russian estimates. The Indian model is expected to cost $225M. So IAF can save money and time by going for a few older models.

 

[cerberus]

lolz even you dont feel little shame typing this .Any ways i will start with this HAL is the worst performing manufacturing facility in the world .SU30 are mostly in parts ans HAL is doing a shity thing assembling it .REgarding topic PAK FA there are no chances for Indians to acquire this jet as already too many dissatisfied reports are done by your expersts so weather they are in competent or corrupt .MIG 29 to UBL upgrade proved to be a biggest scam Russians did to you ,India paid all the development cost so yea it was a brave decision after all . Some other deals which Indians already have done so far

RAFALE
S400
PAK FA
LOCAL MISSILES SAMs

so list of incompetencies are so big so slap is back at your face

All Crap no Substance you are Complete Waste of Time Usual Fanboy on On PDF

As for HAL being Worst Facility here that Organization Alone Publish and File More Patents than All Pakistan Combined.off-course Being a Fanboy you Don't Know what is Patent.

and what the Hell is Local Missile Sam ???

 

[shah1398]

The contract negotiations were on hold since 2013-14. Basically, contract negotiations ended in 2013-14, but MoD put the project on hold based on two reasons.

- IAF did not want the govt to stop the Rafale program. They forced delays on the PAK FA program so the Rafale is completed first.

- IAF had a lot of questions that they want answered. There were about 20-30 questions which the Russians took a long time to answer. All the questions were answered by end 2015. Basically, Indian MoD told Russia that negotiations will not continue unless all questions were answered. After they were answered, Parrikar resumed negotiations in Jan/Feb 2016. Negotiations finished last month apparently, and now the contracts going through bureaucratic procedures.

FGFA is not cost effective. It is more than 2.5 times the cost of a MKI. Unit flyaway cost is about $225M. That's basically more than the F-22 and F-35 combined.

The plane the IAF is buying is the FGFA, they are NOT part of the T-50/PAK-FA project and thus would need permission to fly in the PAK-FA. If India was part of the PAK-FA project then this would be news but they are NOT. The PAK-FA is a Russian project, the FGFA is an Indo-Russian project.

Thank U.

The plane the IAF is buying is the FGFA, they are NOT part of the T-50/PAK-FA project and thus would need permission to fly in the PAK-FA. If India was part of the PAK-FA project then this would be news but they are NOT. The PAK-FA is a Russian project, the FGFA is an Indo-Russian project.

The completed FGFA will include a total of 43 improvements over the T-50, including stealth, supercruise, advanced sensors, networking and combat avionics

Just to clear the confusion, can U plz elaborate what the terms PAKFA, FGFA and AMCA mean and whats the difference between these 3 terms/names if any?

 

[Zain Malik]

Yes Do Pakistan Planning to Pay 30 billion $ Up- front you guys couldn't Afford to pay Few hundred million $ for mere F-16

Strategy.....!!!!

 

[kaykay]

Thank U.




Just to clear the confusion, can U plz elaborate what the terms PAKFA, FGFA and AMCA mean and whats the difference between these 3 terms/names if any?

lolz they are all meant to be fifth generation fighters....just the different nomenclature...

 

[guest11]

People with wet dreams of buying Su-35 are saying that T-50 is not good enough.

 

[randomradio]

Just to clear the confusion, can U plz elaborate what the terms PAKFA, FGFA and AMCA mean and whats the difference between these 3 terms/names if any?

PAK FA is Perspektivny Aviatsionny Kompleks Frontovoy Aviatsii. It's the Russian name. It means Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation. The lead developer is Sukhoi.

FGFA is Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft. That's the Indian name for PAK FA. Its official designation in Russia and India is PMF or Prospective Multirole Fighter. The lead developers are Sukhoi and HAL.

AMCA is Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft. It's about the size of the F-15. The lead developer is ADA.

 

[GURU DUTT]

That information is not correct. It is not clear if we will go for PAK FA right away, there is a possibility of 3 squadrons. But we will be going for 154 FGFA in the first deal.

most probabally they gonna order like two -three squads first then follow on orders like they did with MKI as for @SR-91 question bro thats what IAF is saying as it knows there wont be Twin seat version avilable for at least a decade from now hence for the initial order they will be single seat version with some israeli and french avionics just like MKI ... In Short asli mazza/khabar to 2018-2019 me hi ayegee

 

[Abingdonboy]

Just to clear the confusion, can U plz elaborate what the terms PAKFA,

The PAK-FA is the Russian 5th gen fighter that is under going testing right now but the final version (with improved next-gen engines won't enter service with the Russians before 2020).

FGFA

The FGFA is a derivative of the PAK-FA project but is a 50-50 partnership between India and Russia. The FGFA will be sort of an "MKIvised" version of the PAK-FA to be made in HAL's Naisk plant (currently produces the MKI) with Indian, French, Israeli etc content and tailored to the IAF's requirements. It was said the IAF wanted a twin seat version (as seen in the photoshopped pic below) but it remains unclear if this requirement still exists.

AMCA

AMCA is an entirely different next generation project from the DRDO's ADA (Aeronautical Development Agency). The AMCA is designed to be a medium class 5th gen fighter (with the FGFA being heavy weight) to replace the Jaguar and Rafale in the IAF:

 

[randomradio]

The FGFA is a derivative of the PAK-FA project but is a 50-50 partnership between India and Russia. The FGFA will be sort of an "MKIvised" version of the PAK-FA to be made in HAL's Naisk plant (currently produces the MKI) with Indian, French, Israeli etc content and tailored to the IAF's requirements.

FGFA is much more than just a MKIzed version of PAK FA. FGFA will be a further development of the PAK FA, the testing will happen for 4 years on three prototypes, and that will be followed by a 3 year MKIzation cycle.

It was said the IAF wanted a twin seat version (as seen in the photoshopped pic below) but it remains unclear if this requirement still exists.

It does exist. But the first phase will only see a single seat version for 154. The two seat will come after that. Probably as part of the Mk2 cycle.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The Indian criticism in fact reflects a philosophy that has blighted Indian weapons programmes since the 1970s, which is to insist on the most advanced technology conceivable rather than to accept whatever technology is already available. It is this philosophy which explains why Indian weapons programmes generally take so long. By way of example, India’s light Tejas fighter was first mooted in 1969, first flew in 2001, but did not enter service until 2015, by which time its whole concept had long since become outdated. Similarly development of India’s Arjun tank began in 1972; however it did not enter service until 2004.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/russia’s-sukhoi-t-50-fighter-about-to-enter-service.433793/#ixzz4AooIBVml
Important words,look whats Ruskies think about there biggest defence partner

It's actually correct. And it doesn't stem from within DRDO; it comes straight from the services. The Russian T90 is crappy, compared to the Arjuna; but 'ghar ka murgi dal barabar', so the Arjuna got tested in ways the T90 never faced. The Tejas is slick and smooth and a great flyer; the Air Force kept delaying it with specification creep, adding one little line more at a time.The death of a thousand cuts, only inflicted by our own people. Both projects were well capable of getting out into the field a dozen years ago, without this creeping incremental demand.

Both the Russians and the Chinese get something working then improve it incrementally. The early versions are usually shitty; we were lucky to have got most Russian aircraft during their fully developed, fully debugged state. The Chinese, too, reverse engineered everything. Whatever you got from them was fully matured, and tinkered with, so nothing essential was dicey.

Leave them Brother its their habit.....


Ohhh you mean to say Russia has no money to invest in the fighter.....India lifted up the program otherwise it will be dead.....

More or less.

 

[ayesha.a]

lolz even you dont feel little shame typing this .Any ways i will start with this HAL is the worst performing manufacturing facility in the world .SU30 are mostly in parts ans HAL is doing a shity thing assembling it .

That's a lie, and my guess is that you know it. HAL is manufacturing it from raw materials stage, and has been doing so for a while now. The first batch was semi knocked down kits, the second fully knocked down ones, and then it has been local manufacture with progressive indegenization, to the point of manufacturing from the raw material stage. All this info is easily available, which is why I'm guessing you know it.

 

[shah1398]

lolz they are all meant to be fifth generation fighters....just the different nomenclature...

Shouldn't there been just one 5th Generation aircraft at one time and all resources and energies been diverted to that one aircraft? When it comes to 5th Gen stealth aircraft the classification of Light, Medium or Heavy category seems quite irrelevant.

 

[randomradio]

Shouldn't there been just one 5th Generation aircraft at one time and all resources and energies been diverted to that one aircraft? When it comes to 5th Gen stealth aircraft the classification of Light, Medium or Heavy category seems quite irrelevant.

We have four 5th gen programs. Work has started for three and one is yet to be approved.

Two are light, 6 to 7 tons empty weight. One is manned, the second is unmanned.
The third is 12 tons empty weight.
The fourth is up to 18 tons empty weight.