Russia's Federation spacecraft 3.5 times cheaper than NASA’s SpaceX Dragon

[django]

are you referring to the capsule ( "crew module" ) test article that isro launched[1] in 2014??

well, the capsule certainly is reusable ( i don't know for how many times ) but it will be launched on top of a expendable rocket.

however, a completely reusable space system from isro is the "avatar"[2] space-plane and it is still in initial engineering... it is a bigger project, at first a uncrewed vehicle but with more development will come the crewed version...

avatar on the left... image from isro page[3].

the "avatar" is similar to the yet unrealized "skylon" space-plane[4] from the british company "reaction engines" and the in-development "lynx"[5] from the american company "xcor"... avatar, lynx and skylon have a superior and simplified approach as against the other earth-orbit systems that use rocket+capsule or rocket+space-plane or carrier-plane+space-plane whose examples are in use or being tested or in development - soyuz, nasa space shuttle, falcon9/dragon, shenzhou, "new shepherd", white-knight-two/spaceshiptwo, dream-chaser+atlas-v etc.

below is the very slow progress[2] of isro's "avatar"...



sadly, at present isro's efforts into "avatar" and the human space program are not 100 percent... isro's obsession with satellite launches is the diversion... what isro must do is, (a). stop all production of its pslv medium-class rockets, (b). stop research for its new medium class gslv rockets, (c). handover any satellite produced to foreign launches entirely ( ariane, roskosmos, even spacex )... this will get isro's efforts more into the "avatar" space-plane and the remainder of the human space program.

and @django @haviZsultan @Zibago - what if isro and suparco join effort on "avatar"??

lastly, i wonder if spacex will be bypassed by companies like xcor at least for earth orbit launches.


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[1] http://www.space.com/28114-india-space-capsule-test-flight.html

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(spacecraft)

[3] http://www.isro.gov.in/technology-d...hicle-technology-demonstration-program-rlv-td

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylon_(spacecraft)

[5] http://aerospace.xcor.com/reusable-launch-vehicles/lynx-spacecraft/

I remember reading about Avatar, back in 98, if and when it becomes operational it will be a huge milestone in your nations technological progress.

 

[jamahir]

I remember reading about Avatar, back in 98, if and when it becomes operational it will be a huge milestone in your nations technological progress.

ah, so you are a old-time space enthusiast.

and if india's isro and pakistan's suparco join effort on avatar it will be a advancement of peace and progress in south asia.

 

[django]

ah, so you are a old-time space enthusiast.

and if india's isro and pakistan's suparco join effort on avatar it will be a advancement of peace and progress in south asia.

I was somewhat of an enthusiast especially in my physics days, but nowadays somewhat nonchalant to be honest never the less this is certainly very impressive, as for your latter point I can not see this happening certainly not in the current or foreseeable future, though a noble idealistic proposition by your good self.kudos bhai

 

[Skull and Bones]

and @django @haviZsultan @Zibago - what if isro and pakistan's suparco join effort on "avatar"??

Pakistan has nothing to offer for the project, they neither have experience in sub orbital sattelite launch, nor they can afford the funding. I see only Japan and France as a valuable partner in this regard.

@Nihonjin1051

 

[jamahir]

Pakistan has nothing to offer for the project, they neither have experience in sub orbital sattelite launch, nor they can afford the funding. I see only Japan and France as a valuable partner in this regard.

@Nihonjin1051

logged-in to reply to this.

satellite launches are not relevant to this discussion about a reusable space-plane like avatar or lynx... pakistan has experience building military ballistic rockets and cruise rockets which in the first case uses rocket engine and in the second case uses jet engine, both which in turn are basic points in design of a reusable space-plane... so, when india and pakistan collaborate on a reusable space-plane design, they will both start inexperienced in this field.

and your point about funding, if you mean what each party can chip-in, (a). it is more about resource arrangement than about money, (b). russia and china can provide working finance, (c). because india's treasury is bigger than pakistan's, india will be expected to chip-in more and this is fair.

lastly, i don't see what japan and france can do in this regard, with due regard to our friend, nihonjin1051... japan is of course a contributor to the "international space station" and france operates the ariane heavy-class satellite launch rockets but again, they don't build space-planes... in fact, russia and china are more relevant here than japan and france.

let's simplify for ourselves.

---

logging-off for the night.

 

[C130]

Roscosmos doesn't have the unfortunate circumstance of having to finance a non profitable auto division, so they can do with less.



ISS has funding up to 2024 or 2025.

good thing SpaceX has nothing to do with Tesla then.

 

[Levina]

are you referring to the capsule ( "crew module" ) test article that isro launched[1] in 2014??

well, the capsule certainly is reusable ( i don't know for how many times ) but it will be launched on top of a expendable rocket.

however, a completely reusable space system from isro is the "avatar"[2] space-plane and it is still in initial engineering... it is a bigger project, at first a uncrewed vehicle but with more development will come the crewed version...

the hypersonic-capable "avatar" prototype on the right, i think... image from isro page[3].

the "avatar" is similar to the yet unrealized "skylon" space-plane[4] from the british company "reaction engines" and the in-development "lynx"[5] from the american company "xcor"... avatar, lynx and skylon have a superior and simplified approach as against the other earth-orbit systems that use rocket+capsule or rocket+space-plane or carrier-plane+space-plane whose examples are in use or were in use or being tested or in development - soyuz, nasa space shuttle, falcon9/dragon, shenzhou, "new shepherd", white-knight-two/spaceshiptwo, dream-chaser+atlas-v etc.

below is the very slow progress[2] of isro's "avatar"...



sadly, at present isro's efforts into "avatar" and the human space program are not 100 percent... isro's obsession with satellite launches is the diversion... what isro must do is, (a). stop all production of its pslv medium-class rockets, (b). stop research for its new medium class gslv rockets, (c). handover any satellite produced to foreign launches entirely ( ariane, roskosmos, even spacex )... this will get isro's efforts more into the "avatar" space-plane and the remainder of the human space program.

and @django @haviZsultan @Zibago - what if isro and pakistan's suparco join effort on "avatar"??

lastly, i wonder if spacex will be bypassed by companies like xcor at least for earth orbit launches.


---

[1] http://www.space.com/28114-india-space-capsule-test-flight.html

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(spacecraft)

[3] http://www.isro.gov.in/technology-d...hicle-technology-demonstration-program-rlv-td

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylon_(spacecraft)

[5] http://aerospace.xcor.com/reusable-launch-vehicles/lynx-spacecraft/

Thanks for the info.

Thanks tab is missing. Hail Webby!
Lol

 

[Audio]

good thing SpaceX has nothing to do with Tesla then.

lol...right....

 

[jamahir]

Thanks tab is missing. Hail Webby!

hail mogambo !!

 

[haviZsultan]

are you referring to the capsule ( "crew module" ) test article that isro launched[1] in 2014??

well, the capsule certainly is reusable ( i don't know for how many times ) but it will be launched on top of a expendable rocket.

however, a completely reusable space system from isro is the "avatar"[2] space-plane and it is still in initial engineering... it is a bigger project, at first a uncrewed vehicle but with more development will come the crewed version...

the hypersonic-capable "avatar" prototype on the right, i think... image from isro page[3].

the "avatar" is similar to the yet unrealized "skylon" space-plane[4] from the british company "reaction engines" and the in-development "lynx"[5] from the american company "xcor"... avatar, lynx and skylon have a superior and simplified approach as against the other earth-orbit systems that use rocket+capsule or rocket+space-plane or carrier-plane+space-plane whose examples are in use or were in use or being tested or in development - soyuz, nasa space shuttle, falcon9/dragon, shenzhou, "new shepherd", white-knight-two/spaceshiptwo, dream-chaser+atlas-v etc.

below is the very slow progress[2] of isro's "avatar"...



sadly, at present isro's efforts into "avatar" and the human space program are not 100 percent... isro's obsession with satellite launches is the diversion... what isro must do is, (a). stop all production of its pslv medium-class rockets, (b). stop research for its new medium class gslv rockets, (c). handover any satellite produced to foreign launches entirely ( ariane, roskosmos, even spacex )... this will get isro's efforts more into the "avatar" space-plane and the remainder of the human space program.

and @django @haviZsultan @Zibago - what if isro and pakistan's suparco join effort on "avatar"??

lastly, i wonder if spacex will be bypassed by companies like xcor at least for earth orbit launches.


---

[1] http://www.space.com/28114-india-space-capsule-test-flight.html

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(spacecraft)

[3] http://www.isro.gov.in/technology-d...hicle-technology-demonstration-program-rlv-td

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylon_(spacecraft)

[5] http://aerospace.xcor.com/reusable-launch-vehicles/lynx-spacecraft/

jamahir I have severe doubts that our two "enemy" countries will cooperate for a space project. I see more likelihood of Pakistan and China cooperating here.

 

[C130]

i believe even dragon v1 was begun with the idea of having 7 cosmonauts one day.

and yes, the simplified, spacious and powered-landing dragon v2 will be quite ahead than the cramped and three-passenger/crew soyuz.

and it was a mistake for roskosmos to increase seat price from 20 million.

in terms of reusable rockets, "blue origin" is ahead of spacex as of now... i read somewhere that the "blue origin - new shepherd" rocket is comparable to the reusable falcon 9 v1.1 first stage ( grasshopper )... also, i find "new shepherd" rocket better-looking than falcon 9.



maybe by the time falcon 9 v1.1 + dragon v2 is carrying people ( late 2017?? ), russia will have announced a simplified, powered-descent and expanded soyuz.



1. so where will russia go?? do you think their own space station project will be built within four years??

2. will the chinese space station be expanded by 2020 to have six people or even more??

3. will the chinese space station invite old and new east/south bloc countries ( venezeula, pakistan, syria etc ) ??



earth's moon is boring... if the two moons of mars are targeted by 2020/2022, it will not only serve to learn about long-distance space travel but also on building habitats on non-atmosphere worlds perhaps using local materials ( isru ).

forgot this - if more living modules are added to iss ( maybe the inflatable space stations of bigelow ), the iss can serve as a building yard for in-orbit assembling of mars spacecraft whose modules are launched from earth.

maybe by the time falcon 9 v1.1 + dragon v2 is carrying people ( late 2017?? ), russia will have announced a simplified, powered-descent and expanded soyuz.

I doubt it, but even if they did.. it would still cost more to use a Soyuz compared to a Falcon 9 v1.2 Dragon v2 since the first stage can be reused multiple if not dozens of times over.

earth's moon is boring... if the two moons of mars are targeted by 2020/2022, it will not only serve to learn about long-distance space travel but also on building habitats on non-atmosphere worlds perhaps using local materials ( isru ).

forgot this - if more living modules are added to iss ( maybe the inflatable space stations of bigelow ), the iss can serve as a building yard for in-orbit assembling of mars spacecraft whose modules are launched from earth.

I disagree that the moon is boring and I would bet most people would agree with me. A moon base or tourist destination would bring in billions of dollars a year for SpaceX, and you could use it as leaping point to Mars instead of using the ISS or a new space station.

heck you could lasso a asteroid into a moon orbit and process the rich metals a lot easier and quicker than doing it LEO as well.

we've only been to the moon for few times for a short amount of time it's time for a permanent presence there.

 

[jamahir]

jamahir I have severe doubts that our two "enemy" countries will cooperate for a space project. I see more likelihood of Pakistan and China cooperating here.

you indeed give the nationalism-driven current sad reality of our two countries and yes, there is more likelihood of china-pakistan cooperation and also russia-pakistan cooperation.

however, on such a project as a reusable space-plane, it would be politically far-reaching for south asia and more so if the former afghan cosmonaut, abdul ahad mohmand, is included... but sadly, the establishment of our two countries are not courageous and have made it their unnecessary compulsion to heed to their most uncouth nationalists.

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@C130 , i will have to reply to your post after the 1st of february... i have exhausted the monthly download limit of my home internet connection and i am typing this from a internet parlor so allow to until the 2nd or 3rd.