Russian Engines to Fly to Pakistan

[joey]

Why do you think we're also going for the J-10s. We are a defense oriented force. As good as the MKIs might be, they won't be able to retain the air superiority over Pakistani skies.

India just has the MKIs. What are the 126 new MRCAs going to be, it hasn't even decided yet. LCA got a token order of 20 aircrafts.

Now Indians are going like they want to go for F-18s over the Mig 29 OVT. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Mig-29 OVT would be more worrisome for Pakistanis than the F-18s. Indians have a very unique way of thinking.

YES your right and i think we WILL GO FOR MIG20OVT.
see this is diplomacy.
If Jf17 was denied engines they might decide all to go for J10 with superior chinese engines.
now what? better face 150 Jf17 or 75 J10+ more to come.

Getting 150 Jf17 means Paf wont go for J10 in next 3 years FOr sure atleast delivery might start after 3 years.

if we go for OVT it will be MIG35MKI MADE FOR INDIA.
MIG WILL WORK AS A CONSULTANCY GIVING US TOT AND INTEGRATION HELP.
WE WILL INTEGRATE ISRAELI 2052 RADAR AESA WITH WESTER AVIONICS AND LOTS OF STUFFS.
got the diff between india buying 15 years ago and india buying Now???

 

[Neo]

Where the Indians are playing the game wrong is that before America would aid Pakistan and India would have Russia's aid. Now when they wanted to break in with the Americans they brought in this 126 MRCAs into the equation. So America did immediately get interested in India but so did their old Soviet pals. They wanted in too. So by now its become a Either India chooses to be with the Russians or the Americans.

If they were smart they should've chosen the Russians. Since America's going to be nice to India eventually sometime in the future, anyway. What they should've made sure that Pakistan doesn't squeeze its way in with Russia.

From having zero people ready to sell us less than a decade ago, now we have three super-powers ready to serve our needs. While Indian beureucracy is making one mess after another.

Well said Asim! :thumbsup:

 

[joey]

never said they love pakistan...all im saying, that its a business relationship now. India cant expect Russia to flatly deny everything to Pakistan.

Not that it matters now, earlier India needed Russia to buy weapons cheaply. Now we have enough money to buy whatever from wherever. And its only gonna grow at a superb pace! So it doesnt matter if Russia sells or doesnt sell anyone anything. Pakistan has much lesser money, a bad economy, so they will always have equipment that is not as gd as ours

so as is stated above: ECONOMY is the future...money is the future.

Pakistan is also growing, dont diss them even if "pdf diss us".
gods grace, they will have a good economy eradicate poverty but they wont get kashmir, and i'm sure about it.

I told you again bro, Russia wont ever give them sensitive tech.
We are going in Jv's look at Glonass the backbone of russias millitary.
IT will be Co-Developed.
see the level of participation?
we are no longer a state to buy, but a state to participate in developement.and it will matter least to us if Pakistan gets from russia tech what we used 15 years ago "mig 29 are 15 years old planes with rd93".

and jf17 might is the last plane on earth to have RD93.

 

[Contrarian]

Why do you think we're also going for the J-10s. We are a defense oriented force. As good as the MKIs might be, they won't be able to retain the air superiority over Pakistani skies.

India just has the MKIs. What are the 126 new MRCAs going to be, it hasn't even decided yet. LCA got a token order of 20 aircrafts.

Now Indians are going like they want to go for F-18s over the Mig 29 OVT. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Mig-29 OVT would be more worrisome for Pakistanis than the F-18s. Indians have a very unique way of thinking.

No mate, its NOT about whether there is a token amount of LCA ordered or not....The REAL point was that India got an EXPERIENCE like no other by developing an LCA...It is made in India from top to bottom. This is an invaluable experience which will show its result in the MCA which will undoubtedly be an awsum machine! Such knowledge cannot be gained from any JV.

And give the LCA a break, this is the first plane india has designed bottom up,,every developed country has taken its time in becomming competent in making a/c'. And we dont even know the specs of LCA, for all we know , it could be a hit !

 

[joey]

Malaymisra > do you realize we indians/pakistanis have a tendency to feel secure under someones control? be it Us/Russia.
thats the effect of 200 years colonial rule.

We shud think beyond that.buying stuffs and asking russia not to sell is not anymore what shud we do.
instead participate in joint Ventures and have Intellectual Property Rights.
do you know Russia is delivering is 200 TRD550Mt engines? and we will use it for long range LRCM the KH-55 Nato name Kent "range 3000 km" i'll post link later.

 

[Neo]

This is hilarious.
RD93 WAS SUPPOSED TO GO FOR FC-1 FROM RIGHT THE DAY A PROTOTYPE FLEW.
WE DIDNT PROTESTED THEN WHY WOULD WE NOW????

Joe, just visit a few Indian or International defence fora to get the answer.

One thing according to me Pakistan is better off with Second batch with chinese engines.
RD93/33 have HORRIBLE maintenance record.
5 out of 15 engines are rejected by China.
do i have to tell how Mig29 faced problems? now its upgraded with RD33K engines.

Indian Mig 29's are over a decade old and I'm sure we're getting the latest and improved version of the RD-93.
Don't forget that future versions will be powered by Chinese WS-13A, RD-93 is a temporary thinh.

by the way peoples who thinks this will jeopardise india-russa relationship needs to grow up.
Russia will never offer sensitive tech.
we cannot stop Pakistan from getting arms either this way or other so?

We're getting just what we want for the time being and its China not Russia we'll look up to for our future hi-tech needs.

some PDf guys r so funny, thinks India will now move to US and Russia will move to Pakistan.
Thing is India have already picked up the chinese way of "Joint Ventures".
as we speak we are engaged in over 5 JV's with Russia.

Well thats PDF...you're surrounded with different kinda folks here at PFF.

also Russians Hates Islam to death.

How is this related to the thread??
For the record, Russia is main supplier of hi tech to most of the muslim ME countries.

 

[joey]

Neo chill.
No its not much improved RD93 maybe with a bit more MTBF definitely not Mid33K.
Yes i know its a stop gap measure.
Chinese engine is much much better than the Rd93.

i dont know whay so many indians r whinning, seems they know more than MOD in GOI.
If russia selling Pakistan jeopardised Indo-russian relation they WOULD NEVER SELL.its plain and simple.

 

[Contrarian]

Pakistan is also growing, dont diss them even if "pdf diss us".
gods grace, they will have a good economy eradicate poverty but they wont get kashmir, and i'm sure about it.

I told you again bro, Russia wont ever give them sensitive tech.
We are going in Jv's look at Glonass the backbone of russias millitary.
IT will be Co-Developed.
see the level of participation?
we are no longer a state to buy, but a state to participate in developement.and it will matter least to us if Pakistan gets from russia tech what we used 15 years ago "mig 29 are 15 years old planes with rd93".

and jf17 might is the last plane on earth to have RD93.

Im not dissing Pakistan mate...theyr economy is defo growing and im happy! they are our neighbours and in the end it benifits us too to have stable and developed neighbours. Im just stating the obvious that they wont be able to get the'r economy as high as India.

yeah i know what u mean mate. India is totally ready for JV and Russia is approaching India for JV;s as it needs cash, we are ready to collaborate. But the India US relationship will still be a buyer seller one for a while to come.

I would be grateful if you could explain to me the specifics about OVT. I thought that OVT is just an advanced form or version of the Mig 29?. Am i wrong??

 

[joey]

How is this related to the thread??
For the record, Russia is main supplier of hi tech to most of the muslim ME countries.

UAE totally for oil and money.
FYI check Feench legion forum, how ruskies kills chechen and wraps them in Pig Skin.
I said that mainly cuz many guys in PDF thinks , now Russia-china.pakistan will declare a war with india. pakistan will get kashmir north india hyderabnad etc etc.
It was ment for teenagers, sorry this is PFF.
I take my comment back
cheers.

 

[Contrarian]

Neo chill.
No its not much improved RD93 maybe with a bit more MTBF definitely not Mid33K.
Yes i know its a stop gap measure.
Chinese engine is much much better than the Rd93.

i dont know whay so many indians r whinning, seems they know more than MOD in GOI.
If russia selling Pakistan jeopardised Indo-russian relation they WOULD NEVER SELL.its plain and simple.

true, we have JV's with Israel too....the GOI mulling over JV to make Barak II.

i agree wiv u that we shud JV rather than 'buy'. All im saying is that it would'v been cooler to have complete technology denial to Pakistan from Russia in a strategic perspective, whether sensitive or not. But i agree with your line of thinking that this is slowly turning out to be irrelevant.

 

[joey]

Im not dissing Pakistan mate...theyr economy is defo growing and im happy! they are our neighbours and in the end it benifits us too to have stable and developed neighbours. Im just stating the obvious that they wont be able to get the'r economy as high as India.

yeah i know what u mean mate. India is totally ready for JV and Russia is approaching India for JV;s as it needs cash, we are ready to collaborate. But the India US relationship will still be a buyer seller one for a while to come.

I would be grateful if you could explain to me the specifics about OVT. I thought that OVT is just an advanced form or version of the Mig 29?. Am i wrong??

IMO mig 29OVT is totally different from Mig29.
The airframe is diff the engine is diff with hgiher thrust and double the MTBF"life expectancy".
The radar is Zhum ME but for India it will be state of the art IRBIs "under design in russia" or Israeli AESA 2052 "the main choice".
Fitted with Western Avionics and all stuffs.

That is why Mig29 cannot be upgraded to OVT standard instead SMT.
The airframe is diff.

hell right now we are
Jointly developing a MTA "Medium transport aircraft"
KS-172 Awacs Killer.
Glonass GPS "million million dollar project"
getting assistance in ATV "nuke sub"
Leasing-buying option 2* Akula 2 class boats.
and lots of things.

Jv means it will needs indias permission to selel stuffs to other, full TOT is ofcourse, then there is many other things.
With US we wont go JV in a decade and that is why We wont buy sensntive stuffs from US.
Russians lags in ECCM"electronics" , we get tht from Israel which is Us standards.

we are designing our own stealth ships and frigates with russian/french(thales)/indian(BEL/DARE/CAE) equipments and lot of stuffs.

How do you think we mastered Ramjet tech so soon?
Only through Jv!
we can design it in our factories now!!

 

[Contrarian]

so in effect where would you put the OVT craft?
as in which aircraft can give the ovt a challenge?
state in terms of western crafts like an F-18 E, or F-16 E/F
as well as Russian crafts like Su 30 or MKI version?

just curious mate

 

[Contrarian]

btw India's collaboration with the Glossnass project is not confirmed i think..it is meant to be an alternative to the american GPS, like the european Galllileo system, however the US pressurized EU not to use it for military purposes. Galellio is much more advanced than the GPS with a acuracy of 1m rather than the 10m for GPS.

 

[Neo]

Neo chill.
No its not much improved RD93 maybe with a bit more MTBF definitely not Mid33K.

Joey,
Here's a post from Highsea off WAB. WE know him as the insider on defence matters.

RD-93 is a more modern variant of engine than the RD-33's that India got with the MiG-29's. Every bit equivalent to the RD-33K in reliability- possibly even a little better, since the RD-33K will have to run higher turbine temps to get the extra thrust. In all significant matters, the two versions are virtually identical- they are updated RD-33's, and share the same internal components.

 

[Awesome]

It's not a total Indian bird. It borrows heavily from western countries in terms of avionics and now even the engine would be western.

India would've gained something significant if it had made a plane that works.

You can't make an MCA when you failed with the LCA.