Russian Engine Could Boost Chinese Competitiveness

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Although its not better than the F-16, the JF-17 at least (in contrast to FC-1) is not a point defence fighter in any way. Its as multi-role as they come. The IFR capability as well as BVR and Air to Surface capability give it it consider flexibility beyond what a typical point defence fighter like an F-7 or Mig-21 offers.

Agreed but it is meant not for Multi Role operations, It will be forming the basic Interceptor config in PAF by replacing F-7 and some Mirages, Correct and agreed that Multi Role fighter fits the profile of AA and AG roles plus in Maritime role also but the misinterpretation of my post is that not 250 JF's will be Interceptor i agree but Main Bulk will be Just Interceptors

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Bro,

I think you have these ideas and definitions that are quite mixed up. How do you define interceptor vs any of the other roles that are assigned to the all of the PAF fighters on Air Defence roles?? Even during the Afghan war, PAF was conducting Air Defence CAPs (interceptions) primarily with F-16s, then with Mirages and then with F-6s (in the initial year of the war). F-16 turned out to be the most optimal and suitable *interceptor*..

Also what is an interceptor? Why can't any aircraft with a long range radar and medium or Beyond Visual Range AAMs be interceptors?

F-7 and PGs are used for interception just as the Mirage or F-16 is used in this role by the PAF. All of the PAF fighter sqns undergo training for interception...this is because we do not have dedicated platforms for such roles nor do we have immense resources. Depending on the theater, any PAF sqn (including F-16s, Mirages, F-7s and even A-5s) could be tasked with interception.

ROSE II and III are anything but interceptors. They are equipped with FLIRs instead of an Air Intercept Radar (like the Grifo M3 on the ROSE I aircraft). This means that these Mirages are optimized for Air to Surface roles (Night attack, interdiction etc.)

JF-17 is getting IFR so it can be used in strike roles. The weapons suite to be made available on the JF=17 is quite similar to the F-16s (except that it would not have the ability to carry munitions like JDAMS and JSOW). Otherwise it will have the capability for WVR, BVR, A2G engagements. This means that the JF-17 is a lot more capable than a F-7 equipped with 2 AIM-9Ls and 2 AIM-9Ps for point defence.

Bro, this is what is the typical case of Less Resources and greater requirements, If you see PAF growing and advancing in coming years then you shall see that PAF using F-16 for Interception when JF-17 is available will not be happening. Although F-16 is a great Interceptor but will be becoming your Strike Aircraft.

Who compared F-7 with JF-17?


I just said JF-17 will be Interceptor since having JF-17 for this Role will leave aside AA issues to JF-17 and Rest of the fighters like F-16 and Mirages Rose II and Rose III mirages can play the Strike Role, when J10 comes or other Multi Role Fighter then Mirages will be replaced.

 

[fatman17]

in the 60s/70s/early 80s the only real interceptor in the PAF inventory was the F-104A/B starfighter. all other contemporary a/c like F-86, F-6 were multi-role and this tradition has continued in the late 80s/90s and 00s with the F-16A/B, various mirages etc and i am assuming that this strategy will continue when large number of JF-17s are inducted along with the newer F-16C/Ds.
PAF prefers FGA over ADF.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

in the 60s/70s/early 80s the only real interceptor in the PAF inventory was the F-104A/B starfighter. all other contemporary a/c like F-86, F-6 were multi-role and this tradition has continued in the late 80s/90s and 00s with the F-16A/B, various mirages etc and i am assuming that this strategy will continue when large number of JF-17s are inducted along with the newer F-16C/Ds.
PAF prefers FGA over ADF.

FGA is considered because of less options available for Dedicated role in PAF with the induction of JF-17, J10 and F-16s it will no longer remain the same old PAF... It will be modernized on the dedicated Roles basis. You will not be sending JF-17 for attack in AG mode but will send F-16s or J10s...

Similarly you will not require F-16s to lift up in the sky to Intercept as best possible option but will be smoking and sending JF-17 Up for Fight.

It will a new PAF.

 

[blain2]

I respectfully disagree The air power concept is moving away from "dedicated" concept to multi/swing role because of the issues with funding (you only have so much money and the technology available now in one aircraft can do the job of multiple older ones, however it is very expensive to acquire and maintain).

PAF has specifically stated a MR requirement for all three types to remain in service, I.E. JF-17, F-16 and FC-20. The CAS PAF is on record that a robust air to surface role is a must for the FC-20.

It benefits PAF if most of the aircraft in service are multirole. There is a downside in terms of the pilot training because now you have to train pilots on multiple flight profiles but PAF has been doing quite a bit of this (at least for the F-16 sqns).

Now by above I am not saying that specialization will not happen. PAF will always have squadrons (not platforms) dedicated for specific roles. Interception is one thing that *ALL* aircraft without exception will be responsible for (I.e. JF-17, F-16 and FC-20).

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

I respectfully disagree The air power concept is moving away from "dedicated" concept to multi/swing role because of the issues with funding (you only have so much money and the technology available now in one aircraft can do the job of multiple older ones, however it is very expensive to acquire and maintain).

PAF has specifically stated a MR requirement for all three types to remain in service, I.E. JF-17, F-16 and FC-20. The CAS PAF is on record that a robust air to surface role is a must for the FC-20.

It benefits PAF if most of the aircraft in service are multirole. There is a downside in terms of the pilot training because now you have to train pilots on multiple flight profiles but PAF has been doing quite a bit of this (at least for the F-16 sqns).

Now by above I am not saying that specialization will not happen. PAF will always have squadrons (not platforms) dedicated for specific roles. Interception is one thing that *ALL* aircraft without exception will be responsible for (I.e. JF-17, F-16 and FC-20).

I donot completey disagree with you my friend but you are still not understanding by Point

JF-17 availability to Pakistan will make alot of offensive options easier for PAF as they are capable for handling IAF offensive, F-16s are Utilized for these roles until now because they were the best ones PAF had in light of any aggression.

JF-17 is multi role no doubt about it since PAF will use this platform for maritime and FGA roles also in future but its induction reduces the burden on F-16s for multi role tasks that included Interception Until Now, J10s are meant for Strike and F-16s will also serve the same purpose.

 

[JK!]

I donot completey disagree with you my friend but you are still not understanding by Point

JF-17 availability to Pakistan will make alot of offensive options easier for PAF as they are capable for handling IAF offensive, F-16s are Utilized for these roles until now because they were the best ones PAF had in light of any aggression.

JF-17 is multi role no doubt about it since PAF will use this platform for maritime and FGA roles also in future but its induction reduces the burden on F-16s for multi role tasks that included Interception Until Now, J10s are meant for Strike and F-16s will also serve the same purpose.

Consider the example of Eurofighter Typhoon in UK service at least.

There will be some squadrons focusing on air defence, others multirole and at least 1 dedicated strike.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Consider the example of Eurofighter Typhoon in UK service at least.

There will be some squadrons focusing on air defence, others multirole and at least 1 dedicated strike.

Agreed............

Its what i am saying that JF-17 will be Multi tasked but bulk of them will be Interceptors...

But with induction of F16s you will not require JF-17 in Premium Strike Roles..

 

[PakShaheen79]

I think it is good to have multiple platform for different role. J-10,F-16s and JF-17 will be using different weapons as interceotors (PL-12/SD-10,AIM-120C5,MICA) along with differernt package of avionics; Chinese,US,French. It will be difficult for enemy to suddenly jam all these with one EW suite as all will be carrying different ECM/ECCM.

Same go for strike role. Here diversification come in form of Chinese Mutions and home grown systems like Raad,H2/H4 etc. then using GBU series from US on F-16. PAF will go for Air launched version of Ex-39AM, with french avionics on JF-17 while J-10 will have some chinese anti ship missile for Naval strike operation.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

I think it is good to have multiple platform for different role. J-10,F-16s and JF-17 will be using different weapons as interceotors (PL-12/SD-10,AIM-120C5,MICA) along with differernt package of avionics; Chinese,US,French. It will be difficult for enemy to suddenly jam all these with one EW suite as all will be carrying different ECM/ECCM.

Same go for strike role. Here diversification come in form of Chinese Mutions and home grown systems like Raad,H2/H4 etc. then using GBU series from US on F-16. PAF will go for Air launched version of Ex-39AM, with french avionics on JF-17 while J-10 will have some chinese anti ship missile for Naval strike operation.

Consider French RC 400 radar and its range 100KM tops, Sufficient for MICA 60+ Km MRAAM, with MICA you need not to have sidewiders since its in SRAAM class also since minimum 500 m intercept is possible.
For Strike role is this radar suitable..... I will completely disagree..
With Erieye AEW&C support it can defend the skies of Pakistan but for offensive roles better radar and more hard points for loading are required on JF-17 so that it can perform Strike missions.

With 120+ km Radar and better AG capabilities I recon F-16 Block 50+ will be the Strike aircraft of Pakistan for Coming years... Agreed that roles change with requirements but if 5 sqdr. are for Interceprion and 1 for Strike then you can see what i am trying to explain.

 

[ahussains]

What is the best comparision between the FC20 and f-16 can some technically described

 

[kidwaibhai]

i read somewhere that the engines that the russians are going to provide will have some thrust vectoring technology. if this is true can the frame of the jf-17 handle the G's.