Russia offers PAK-FA to Greece if they agree to buy Su-35's

[amalakas]

Well i have watched this thread for a bit and read everyones comments and all are far off the truth.

1) Greece's economic recovery has nothing to do with the defense spending. This is one of those that must be done.

2) The Su 35 is currently the only wise choice. plus it allows Greece access to the pak fa later on.

3) For Greece the F35 is NOT the ideal choice. For the Aegean environment the F35 is a FIRST STRIKE weapon, beyond any operational requirement for Greece and outside any political and tactical reasoning, as Greece never intends to strike first at anyone.

4) The Su35 is cheaper ,better and the only plane that can guarantee air superiority over the theater of operations even after the induction of the F35.

5) The Su35 and the weapons it carries effectively terminate the use of Air Tankers and AWACS in the Aegean theater of operations.

6) It is by far the cheaper option at about 50 million $ each with weapons. Now beat that.

7) From its possible appearance over the aegean to the arrival of the Pak fa (if decided) it will be the unquestionable plane to beat in every role but first strike.

8) Equiped with 3 radar systems X & L band it will be effective enough against F35s until something better comes in the region.

and Greece operates other russian equipment and everyone (myself included) has seen how good they are.

 

[gowthamraj]

^ is it su-35 or su-35bm

 

[amalakas]

^ is it su-35 or su-35bm

Actually in Greece's case it would be Su-35S , just like the Russian version ..

 

[1000VA]

Russia Predicts Markets for Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA Fighter Jets; 1100+ Sales by 2050 Possible | India Defence

Reports in the Russian media indicate that Russia has identified a number of African, Asian and South American customers for the Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA fifth generation fighter jet. The Sukhoi PAK FA is a fifth-generation jet fighter prototype that was designed by Sukhoi OKB.
By the end of 2010, India and Russia are likely to sign a preliminary design contract for the co-development of the PAK-FA.

Analysts in Russia have identified a number of countries as potential buyers for the PAK-FA including Algeria, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela, Vietnam, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Kazakhstan, China, Libya, Malaysia and Syria. By the year 2050, Russian analysts predict a sale of 1100+ PAK-FA fighter jets.

 

[Ruag]

Russia Predicts Markets for Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA Fighter Jets; 1100+ Sales by 2050 Possible | India Defence

Reports in the Russian media indicate that Russia has identified a number of African, Asian and South American customers for the Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA fifth generation fighter jet. The Sukhoi PAK FA is a fifth-generation jet fighter prototype that was designed by Sukhoi OKB.
By the end of 2010, India and Russia are likely to sign a preliminary design contract for the co-development of the PAK-FA.

Analysts in Russia have identified a number of countries as potential buyers for the PAK-FA including Algeria, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela, Vietnam, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Kazakhstan, China, Libya, Malaysia and Syria. By the year 2050, Russian analysts predict a sale of 1100+ PAK-FA fighter jets.

I don't get the deal here.

Indians pay $6 billion of the Research and Development costs and the Russians are the only ones who get to decide which country the fighter jet is exported to?

It is still a list of potential customers. But the point remains, the Chinese haven't paid a single penny for the R&D costs, and yet there is a high probability that they will end up getting about 100 of the T-50s.

The United States keeps selling cutting edge weapons to Pakistan, and the Russians are more than eager to sell their top-of-the line weapons to China. And yet India keeps running behind these two countries like a headless chicken.

 

[1000VA]

I don't get the deal here.

Indian's pay $6 billion for the Research and Development costs and the Russians are the only ones who get to decide which country the fighter jet is exported to?

It is still a list of potential customers. But the point remains, the Chinese haven't paid a single penny for the R&D costs, and yet there is a high probability that they will end up getting about 100 of the T-50s.

The United States keeps selling cutting edge weapons to Pakistan, and the Russians are more than eager to sell their top-of-the line weapons to China. And yet India keeps running behind these two countries like a headless chicken.

Technology is more important than money .A country with more advanced technology can get more power in these type contracts

 

[amalakas]

I don't get the deal here.

Indians pay $6 billion of the Research and Development costs and the Russians are the only ones who get to decide which country the fighter jet is exported to?

It is still a list of potential customers. But the point remains, the Chinese haven't paid a single penny for the R&D costs, and yet there is a high probability that they will end up getting about 100 of the T-50s.

The United States keeps selling cutting edge weapons to Pakistan, and the Russians are more than eager to sell their top-of-the line weapons to China. And yet India keeps running behind these two countries like a headless chicken.

The indian T50 and the russian T50 will NOT be the exact same plane.

I suppose if india finds export customers for its version of the T50 then they can sell it..

 

[Jigs]

Well i have watched this thread for a bit and read everyones comments and all are far off the truth.

1) Greece's economic recovery has nothing to do with the defense spending. This is one of those that must be done.

2) The Su 35 is currently the only wise choice. plus it allows Greece access to the pak fa later on.

3) For Greece the F35 is NOT the ideal choice. For the Aegean environment the F35 is a FIRST STRIKE weapon, beyond any operational requirement for Greece and outside any political and tactical reasoning, as Greece never intends to strike first at anyone.

4) The Su35 is cheaper ,better and the only plane that can guarantee air superiority over the theater of operations even after the induction of the F35.

5) The Su35 and the weapons it carries effectively terminate the use of Air Tankers and AWACS in the Aegean theater of operations.

6) It is by far the cheaper option at about 50 million $ each with weapons. Now beat that.

7) From its possible appearance over the aegean to the arrival of the Pak fa (if decided) it will be the unquestionable plane to beat in every role but first strike.

8) Equiped with 3 radar systems X & L band it will be effective enough against F35s until something better comes in the region.

and Greece operates other russian equipment and everyone (myself included) has seen how good they are.

I would disagree with 1. Because of budget issues the Type 214 deal(canceled) and the next gen fighter procurement (Delayed). Military spending always comes first but when you get close to complete economic collapse it is time to do some serious cutting.

 

[amalakas]

I would disagree with 1. Because of budget issues the Type 214 deal(canceled) and the next gen fighter procurement (Delayed). Military spending always comes first but when you get close to complete economic collapse it is time to do some serious cutting.

The type 214 deal is not canceled. The subs have not been accepted by the navy, but they are paid for and 2 more are to be ordered.

The next fighter plane procurement is "delayed" because Germany is pushing for the EF2000 via its financial arm these days. This is an issue that is a pain as the Ef2000 is too expensive for what it is.

 

[Jigs]

The type 214 deal is not canceled. The subs have not been accepted by the navy, but they are paid for and 2 more are to be ordered.

The next fighter plane procurement is "delayed" because Germany is pushing for the EF2000 via its financial arm these days. This is an issue that is a pain as the Ef2000 is too expensive for what it is.

Which would translate to Greece not being able to afford a sizable purchase to replace A-7 and F-4s.

On the 214 the navy did say they were not satisfied. They being paid for is false as 540 million euros dept was why the first sub is being sold off to pay off that dept. Till that sub sells this deal is at the most pending.

While the manufacturers agree that the client refused to accept the first vessel, they claim the Greek defense ministry has failed to pay Eur. 524 million over the last two years. "With this cancellation HSY has lost the main technology supplier essential for fulfilling the construction programs." Warns HDW, asserting Greece risks grounding its modern submarine force by not complying with the terms of the contract.

 

[Safriz]

Somebody must have said it already..But i am going to say it again..
Greece has recently gone thgrough an economic meltdown and if it wasnt for Germany to come to rescue..Greeks had gone bankrupt..
I wonder how they are going to pay for the PAK-FA+ SU 35

 

[amalakas]

Which would translate to Greece not being able to afford a sizable purchase to replace A-7 and F-4s.

On the 214 the navy did say they were not satisfied. They being paid for is false as 540 million euros dept was why the first sub is being sold off to pay off that dept. Till that sub sells this deal is at the most pending.

I think you are not very well informed and you misunderstood me too.

First, the 214 have a cost somewhere in the region of 3 billion euros. This includes a side agreement for the modernisation of 2 209 subs.
out of this about 600 million have not been paid, mainly as a protest against the first ship of the class not meeting the design specs.
Furthermore, 2 more 214s have been ordered in the place of the modernised subs now deemed not such a good idea.

None of the subs has been offered to anyone to pay off debt. You should check your sources. Newspaper hearsay does not count.

As for the EF2000 being too expensive, I meant for the same amount of money for 1 EF2000, Greece can buy 2 Su 35s and they are better planes all around.

Greece does not have to buy that many planes. The total deficit in numbers is about 90 planes.

If Greece goes for EF2000 or Su 35s, it does not need that many.
both are air superiority planes, replacing, bombers (A7s) and interceptors (F4s).
About 40 Su 35s or EF2000s will do nicely and the remaining F16s and M2000s can cover all the other roles plus some compensation for accidents, possibly used F16s or new before the line is closed.
Also as a point of interest, Greece has finalized an order for 6 new frigates from france.

An economic crisis, usually affects defence spending last. Why do you think Germany gave us the money, most of the arms contracts are with Germany, they are taking the money back every cent of the way.

open your eyes....

 

['Drone' Jake Constantinou]

In my opinion, the Sukhoi PAK FA would be an excellent acquisition for the Hellenic Air Force. As well as increasing their Air Force power and capability. Especially with Turkey, who are going to receive the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II. It would be an eye opener for the east and west too see which 5th Generation Aircraft's are the best. With all the Controversy between the Greek and Turkish people, and Turkey acquiring such a significant aircraft, Greece should step their game up a further level, to insure protection, power and a potent future for the Hellenic Republic Of Greece.



Regards to all.

 

[justanobserver]

^
Members from Greece sure love their coffee

 

[Deamonlord]

hello to all of you...iv read all the above and i want to say a few thinks about it since im from greece...first of all they won't let us buy russian crafts cause some "big" hands of corraption will not allowed to do it..secondly why not to overcome to turkey? y dont know what they do to us..how many planes armed crossing the borders everyday...how will feels like if yr neigbour will crossing the borders everyday with armed jets or how feels like if they kill in action yr pilots and then pretend like nthn happent or even threat and bully with war? and dont mention the operation balyoz that came so close to be happen and be invaded some years ago...trully they will have the upper hand with that bunket F35 (i never like it) but under this conditions i see no reason to not defend ourselfs besides yr country will do the same under this conditions or im wrong? besides is not our fault that they cant accept the fact that we are under same flag of nato..supposing to be allies but we will never be...we are small nation, we have problems with economy..but we are not the only 1 and y mister y saying about us and our economy...dont forget USA OWNS 3.8trilions to china for her loan...so dont say anything about economy from the moment that we are not the only 1! ty for yr readding greetings from greece URAAA russia