Russia offered Su-27 and Mig-29 to PAF in the 90s

[JonAsad]

We should have taken them. Specially Su-27 which is a air superiority fighter. But I guess Pakistan needs S-300 or S-400 and Pantsir S-1 more than fighters or for that matter any other weapons.

it was a honey trap-

2000 Posts many thanks under ur belt , still you are asking this question???? I will suggest you to visit sticky MMRCA thread under Indian defence forum section...

he had a valid question- you should answer it- -

 

[killerx]

ooooooooooooold story mate now china is offering better to us and much stronger economy

 

[ANG]

Hi, this discussion is the past. If one lives in the past, they are doomed to repeat it. The PAF should have taken this opportunity and blew it, but this was close to 20 years ago. No can change the past. The JF-17 Block 2 and J-10B are the future.

 

[SQ8]

Hi, this discussion is the past. If one lives in the past, they are doomed to repeat it. The PAF should have taken this opportunity and blew it, but this was close to 20 years ago. No can change the past. The JF-17 Block 2 and J-10B are the future.

The opportunity was taken, however the Lobby for Indian interests in Russia was very strong compared to recent times and we were given a tacit NO.

 

[Zabaniyah]

The opportunity was taken, however the Lobby for Indian interests in Russia was very strong compared to recent times and we were given a tacit NO.

But, doesn't the J-10 and JF-17 use Russian engines?

 

[SQ8]

But, doesn't the J-10 and JF-17 use Russian engines?

Yes.. and there was a major move by the Indian lobby to have the RD-93 blocked from sale to Pakistan.
However.. it became evident to the Russians that appeasing the Indians was not worth potentially hundreds of millions of dollars in Business.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

Hi, this discussion is the past. If one lives in the past, they are doomed to repeat it. The PAF should have taken this opportunity and blew it, but this was close to 20 years ago. No can change the past. The JF-17 Block 2 and J-10B are the future.

The opportunity was taken, however the Lobby for Indian interests in Russia was very strong compared to recent times and we were given a tacit NO.

Well now if we face the same against the engines ... then what will be the options except WS13 for JFT and what about J10 B what these are expected to be fitted with ... my guess is some AL-31 series with up thrust like 98 kn of RD 93 instead of 86 kn... and as I have learned with J20 thread that it has WS10-G series engines which are offering approx 33000 lbs max thrust.
I have also learned here about some Ukrainian engine some Ivchenko-Progress AL-222 based more thrust engine which is actually a 48 kn engine but its may be on papers only ...
So do we have any European option for our flying machine ... I always dream about EJ-200 but its just a dream ...

 

[Zabaniyah]

Anything European is pricey! But, good quality and no strings attached (unless they have major US components).

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

guys IDk y we r still discussing this old news when we all know that we even today have option of better pllanes from china and PAF will not take it JF J10 F16 r our future for atleast next 10 years and then the rein of 5th gen so i dont think that this air frame(su 27) in any form ll be inducted in PAF

 

[Windjammer]

In the late 60s, then the USSR offered both the MiG-21 and SU-7s to Pakistan, both were declined due to their poor characteristics, when the SU-27 and MiG-29 were proposed with Ukraine in hind sight, the Indians played the usual drama queen card. But now since India has started to purchase from the likes of USA....Russians aren't obliged to tango in tandem.
It's worth noting that even when it could afford them, the PAF declined both the Typhoon and Rafel.

 

[rockstarIN]

Yes.. and there was a major move by the Indian lobby to have the RD-93 blocked from sale to Pakistan.
However.. it became evident to the Russians that appeasing the Indians was not worth potentially hundreds of millions of dollars in Business.

Few hundred engine prices does not have the value of multi billion dollar Indo-Russian defense deals.

However, it is cheap to pressurize for each and everything to Russia as these sales does not have huge strategic value.

Moreover, Russia is selling the engines to China and the China factor too played its bit in this case.

It does not mean that Pakistan can get S-300s from Russia as and when it asks, Russians might use those as a tactic to pressure us, thats all.

 

[SQ8]

Few hundred engine prices does not have the value of multi billion dollar Indo-Russian defense deals.

However, it is cheap to pressurize for each and everything to Russia as these sales does not have huge strategic value.

Moreover, Russia is selling the engines to China and the China factor too played its bit in this case.

It does not mean that Pakistan can get S-300s from Russia as and when it asks, Russians might use those as a tactic to pressure us, thats all.

Yet the GoI spared no effort during Putin's visit to stop the sale of Rd-93.. and Putin did oblige till his finance advisers advised him differently.

 

[foxbat]

It's worth noting that even when it could afford them, the PAF declined both the Typhoon and Rafel.

When was it when Pakistan could afford Typhoon and Rafale???

 

[araz]

Well now if we face the same against the engines ... then what will be the options except WS13 for JFT and what about J10 B what these are expected to be fitted with ... my guess is some AL-31 series with up thrust like 98 kn of RD 93 instead of 86 kn... and as I have learned with J20 thread that it has WS10-G series engines which are offering approx 33000 lbs max thrust.
I have also learned here about some Ukrainian engine some Ivchenko-Progress AL-222 based more thrust engine which is actually a 48 kn engine but its may be on papers only ...
So do we have any European option for our flying machine ... I always dream about EJ-200 but its just a dream ...

Price and sanctions make EU options as risky as the US options. we need to think local, and russians and the ukranian and chinese are the way to go. For people who worry about sanction from the russians, you have to remember that the responsibility of provision of engine is chinese. In the current environment you would not want to say no to the Chinese powerhouse purely for financial reasons. Its trade with Russia far out weighs the indian sales and therefore russians capitulated and not because of love for Pakistan and hate for India or otherwise. This is just business and as long as you have the buying power there are plenty of providers.
Araz

 

[SQ8]

When was it when Pakistan could afford Typhoon and Rafale???

2001 early.. and 2002.. however only in limited numbers.. too little to make a diff.