Russia links sale of S-400 to India confirming order of FGFA

[Agent_47]

NEW DELHI — The Indian Air Force has asked the Ministry of Defence to buy unknown numbers of S-400 Triumf air defense systems from Russia, but Russian diplomats here said Moscow is unlikely to agree until India clarifies its position on the joint Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) program.

A final agreement on development of the FGFA is still pending despite an initial agreement inked in 2010 because the Indian Air Force still has not finalized how many aircraft it would order, and because work-share issues between India and Russia on production of the FGFA are not settled. India will release its share of $10 billion toward development of the FGFA — which is based on the Russian T-50 platform and is in the prototype stage —only after final agreement is approved.

A Russian diplomat, however, said Moscow wants greater clarity on whether the ruling Narendra Modi government would proceed with joint development of the FGFA or limit its purchases of the aircraft. The diplomat, however, would not say if there would be a trade-off between the S-400 and the FGFA deal.

The Indian Air Force made a request to MoD early this month to buy the S-400 system, a Defence Ministry source said, adding that the request will be on Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar's wish list when he visits Moscow next month. India proposes to buy the S-400 through a government-to-government deal, the source added.

The Air Force wants the S-400 to fill holes in its fledgling air defense systems and provide capability to strike multiple targets, including ballistic missiles and stealth aircraft, said an Air Force official. The S-400 Triumf can intercept and destroy airborne targets at a distance of up to 400 kilometers and simultaneously engage up to six targets.

"The intention to go ahead with the purchase of S-400 Triumf indicates that the homegrown capability to build an effective anti-missile missile system is not in sight in the near future," said defense analyst Nitin Mehta.

India is developing its own anti-missile system that includes the Prithvi for high-altitude interception (above 75 kilometers) and the Advanced system for low-altitude interception (below 15 kilometers).

The first phase of the system, which will be able to kill ballistic missiles at a range of 2,000 kilometers, was scheduled to have been in operation by 2012. No official from the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which is developing the Prithvi system, would comment whether the system is in operation.

The MoD source said that the second phase of the system, intended to provide the capability to kill missiles at a range of 5,000 kilometers, is now in development. The source would not comment on whether Phase 1 is in operation.

In addition, India and Israel are developing a medium-range surface-to-air missile (MRSAM) project, which would have a range of 70 kilometers, but the project has been delayed by more than three years, and no MoD official would comment about when it would be completed.

The Indo-Israeli MRSAM is being jointly developed by India's DRDO and Rafael and Israel Aerospace Industries of Israel.

Another project being developed jointly with the Israelis is a long-range surface-to-air missile, which would have a range of more than 100 kilometers and is meant for the Indian Navy. This effort is also over two years behind schedule.
Russia May Link Sale of S-400 to India With Fighter Development

 

[alimobin memon]

if IN gets FGFA then rafale deal is not on go or is it separate deal ?

 

[Djinn]

I guess Russians are just trying to ascertain that India keeps the Russian production facilities going.

 

[raj76]

if IN gets FGFA then rafale deal is not on go or is it separate deal ?

Seperate

 

[pkd]

Russia is playing sorts of cards to bring india back on track regarding this project: Negotiating Su35 with pakistan, linking s400 with this. Because if this deal goes away polar bear is scared that there wont be any new major fighter aircraft deal with india for decades to come

 

[kaykay]

if IN gets FGFA then rafale deal is not on go or is it separate deal ?

2 different deals. FGFA is a Joint Venture between Indian and Russia much like Brahmos.

 

[Hindustani78]

if IN gets FGFA then rafale deal is not on go or is it separate deal ?

IAF will have 2 squardrons on Rafale within 2 years.

 

[dadeechi]

NEW DELHI — The Indian Air Force has asked the Ministry of Defence to buy unknown numbers of S-400 Triumf air defense systems from Russia, but Russian diplomats here said Moscow is unlikely to agree until India clarifies its position on the joint Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) program.

A final agreement on development of the FGFA is still pending despite an initial agreement inked in 2010 because the Indian Air Force still has not finalized how many aircraft it would order, and because work-share issues between India and Russia on production of the FGFA are not settled. India will release its share of $10 billion toward development of the FGFA — which is based on the Russian T-50 platform and is in the prototype stage —only after final agreement is approved.

A Russian diplomat, however, said Moscow wants greater clarity on whether the ruling Narendra Modi government would proceed with joint development of the FGFA or limit its purchases of the aircraft. The diplomat, however, would not say if there would be a trade-off between the S-400 and the FGFA deal.

The Indian Air Force made a request to MoD early this month to buy the S-400 system, a Defence Ministry source said, adding that the request will be on Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar's wish list when he visits Moscow next month. India proposes to buy the S-400 through a government-to-government deal, the source added.

The Air Force wants the S-400 to fill holes in its fledgling air defense systems and provide capability to strike multiple targets, including ballistic missiles and stealth aircraft, said an Air Force official. The S-400 Triumf can intercept and destroy airborne targets at a distance of up to 400 kilometers and simultaneously engage up to six targets.

"The intention to go ahead with the purchase of S-400 Triumf indicates that the homegrown capability to build an effective anti-missile missile system is not in sight in the near future," said defense analyst Nitin Mehta.

India is developing its own anti-missile system that includes the Prithvi for high-altitude interception (above 75 kilometers) and the Advanced system for low-altitude interception (below 15 kilometers).

The first phase of the system, which will be able to kill ballistic missiles at a range of 2,000 kilometers, was scheduled to have been in operation by 2012. No official from the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which is developing the Prithvi system, would comment whether the system is in operation.

The MoD source said that the second phase of the system, intended to provide the capability to kill missiles at a range of 5,000 kilometers, is now in development. The source would not comment on whether Phase 1 is in operation.

In addition, India and Israel are developing a medium-range surface-to-air missile (MRSAM) project, which would have a range of 70 kilometers, but the project has been delayed by more than three years, and no MoD official would comment about when it would be completed.

The Indo-Israeli MRSAM is being jointly developed by India's DRDO and Rafael and Israel Aerospace Industries of Israel.

Another project being developed jointly with the Israelis is a long-range surface-to-air missile, which would have a range of more than 100 kilometers and is meant for the Indian Navy. This effort is also over two years behind schedule.
Russia May Link Sale of S-400 to India With Fighter Development

This may actually turnout to be a blessing in disguise.

 

[Jai Bharat]

Russia is not in any position to make any demands. Their economy is getting crushed by sanctions and they need to start making deals, or compromise on Ukraine to end sanctions.

T-50 has not even been flown by IAF, and no price quote has been given on production. This is not a partnership that is destined to end well if Russia continues down this path.

I don't see the S-400 being inducted if it means going against what the IAF wants from the PakFA.

This may actually turnout to be a blessing in disguise.

I am feeling this way as well. Russia throwing a fit over the fact that India is no longer willing to sponsor their defence industry might be the best thing that has ever happened for indigenous development. It shows us that we cannot trust them going forward.

 

[Abotani]

Russia should just continue the monkey model policy with India.It is not 90's when Russian federation was gasping for funds. Even with the Ukraine blowback, Russia is in a comfortable position as long as China is there to complement- at least far more comfortable than the lost 90's.After the rafale fiasco no country will be willing to put in so much effort and resources into India to replenish it's long outdated military.
Members of a certain nationality may be well served to remember that buying cutting edge, top dollar weapons platform is nowhere akin to buying your monthly rations from the grocery store. In the former,the seller has the upper hand. Maybe they should just let go of this cheapskate mentality- this mentality is what made Rafale deal fail after more than decade of "smart negotiations".

 

[Mike_Brando]

Russia should just continue the monkey model policy with India.It is not 90's when Russian federation was gasping for funds. Even with the Ukraine blowback, Russia is in a comfortable position as long as China is there to complement- at least far more comfortable than the lost 90's.After the rafale fiasco no country will be willing to put in so much effort and resources into India to replenish it's long outdated military.
Members of a certain nationality may be well served to remember that buying cutting edge, top dollar weapons platform is nowhere akin to buying your monthly rations from the grocery store. In the former,the seller has the upper hand. Maybe they should just let go of this cheapskate mentality- this mentality is what made Rafale deal fail after more than decade of "smart negotiations".

So says a tani from some distant land of Arunachal Pradesh!!Accept it mate,you're literally a nobody and no matter how much love you show towards your CCP masters they won't be able do anything for you in the near future.Love it or hate it but the fact remains that you're living in India as an Indian citizen.Period!!

 

[vsdave2302]

if IN gets FGFA then rafale deal is not on go or is it separate deal ?

Rafale deal is confirm. FAGFA will come after 2020.

 

[Jai Bharat]

Russia should just continue the monkey model policy with India.It is not 90's when Russian federation was gasping for funds. Even with the Ukraine blowback, Russia is in a comfortable position as long as China is there to complement- at least far more comfortable than the lost 90's.After the rafale fiasco no country will be willing to put in so much effort and resources into India to replenish it's long outdated military.
Members of a certain nationality may be well served to remember that buying cutting edge, top dollar weapons platform is nowhere akin to buying your monthly rations from the grocery store. In the former,the seller has the upper hand. Maybe they should just let go of this cheapskate mentality- this mentality is what made Rafale deal fail after more than decade of "smart negotiations".

We live in a buyer's market, not a seller's one. Russia lost towed artillery, self propelled artillery, heavy attack helicopter, heavy transport helicopter, engine deal, diesel submarine deal, and AESA radar deals all to foreign players in just recent times.

The era of India being solely dependent are coming to an end. Russians know this, hence the apparent desperation trying to link deals together. India will probably snatch a few more nuclear submarines, air defence, T-50, and maybe the Armata platform, but Russia can't really offer a whole lot else. India has moved on. Even next aircraft carrier will be developed with American, not Russian, input.

 

[Hindustani78]

Why India is banking on Russia's S-400 missile to thwart China threat | Zee News
Last Updated: Friday, October 30, 2015 - 12:25

New Delhi: India's defence sector is likely to get a major boost with New Delhi close to finalising a deal for the world's most advanced anti-ballistic missile system – the S-400 - during Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar's visit to Russia.

Mr Parrikar, who is scheduled to leave for Moscow on Saturday, in an interview to ITAR-TASS expressed hope to finalise the deal by the time Prime Minister Narendra Modi visits Moscow in December.

The S-400 is designed to protect key installations such as nuclear reactors, government installations and big cities and can intercept enemy missile more than 400 kilometres away.

The S-400 Triumf is capable of countering all air attack weapons, including tactical and strategic aircraft, ballistic missiles and hypersonic targets such as the US F-35 fighter jet.

The S-400 can engage up to 36 targets simultaneously with as many as 72 missiles at altitudes of five meters to 30 km.

The cost of the acquisition and the number of S-400 systems India will acquire is not known at this stage.

Parrikar's visit comes as the government's Defence Acquisition Council cleared defence projects worth more than Rs. 15,000 crores.

India-Russia military technical cooperation has evolved from a simple buyer-seller framework to one involving joint research, development and production of advanced defence technologies and systems.

Copters, long-range missiles on Defence Minister’s Russia agenda - The Hindu
Updated: October 30, 2015 03:48 IST

Talks on the final production agreement have been stalled due to differences in work share for the Indian side.
Acquisition of long-range air defence systems and two different kinds of helicopters are among the top issues on the agenda of Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar’s three-day visit to Russia beginning on Saturday. These agreements are likely to be signed during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Russia in December.

According to officials, India is interested in procuring S-400 Surface-to-Air Missiles (SAM) from Russia, which have a range of up to 400 km. Also, negotiations are expected to be wrapped up to build Kamov-226 T utility helicopters in India and buy additional Mi-17 V5 medium lift helicopters.

“They may not take a final shape during my visit but we’d like to prepare some of them for Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Russia in December — for example, the project for joint production of Kamov Ka-226 helicopters… Also, the purchase of S-400 missile systems. We anticipate these projects to be coordinated by next month,” Mr. Parrikar said in an interview to a Russian news agency.

He is in Russia to chair the annual Intergovernmental Commission on Military-Technical Cooperation meeting along with his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoigu.

“I hope to use my visit to have it inked on paper when the Prime Minister arrives,” he said.

However, on the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) to be jointly developed by India and Russia, Mr. Parrikar said that negotiations would proceed further, but added, “We have halted ourselves to establish things clear in our minds.”

Talks on the final production agreement have been stalled due to differences in work share for the Indian side.

Projects approved
Meanwhile, the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), which met on Thursday, approved some long-pending deals, procurements and upgrades worth over Rs.12,000 crore but deferred a decision on the blacklisting procedures revised under the new Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP).

Some of the major decisions include clearance for engine and avionic upgrades for the Air Force’s fleet of IL-76 transport and IL-78 mid-air refuelling aircraft for Rs. 4,300 crore, approval to digitise the 24 Pichora Surface-to-Air Missile systems at Rs. 1,800 crore, two new regiments of Pinaka Multi-Barrel Rocket launch systems at Rs. 3,300 crore and 149 more BMP-2 Infantry vehicles for the Army.

For the Navy, approval was accorded to issue Acceptance of Necessity for four 3,500-tonne Multi-Purpose Vessels costing Rs. 700 crore to replace the existing tug boats.