Russia, India to sell jointly made Ka-226Ts internationally

[Blue Marlin]

HAL has its hands full what with the manufacture of Migs, SUs, Tejas, Choppers, Hawks, AJTs etc etc. They will need to outsource to private manufacturers.

well russia has chosen hal to make the choppers as they are capable of doing so.

 

[Hellfire]

Other than being a small (very small in the grand scheme of things) "lollipop" to Russia, there seems to be little logic behind the deal and, in fact, it seems counter-productive in a lot of ways.

This is the essence of the deal - a lollipop. The requirements of the armed forces will be in excess of the touted figure of 197 which is presently doing the rounds. IMO, LUH will continue and likely be inducted into the proposed aviation brigades while these helicopters may proceed only for R & O groups across the CAPFs and Indian Army - Air Force equally distributed. But then, knowing how MoD and GoI has always worked in procurement of platforms in past also, this can be just another stupidity of inducting multiple platforms without having adequate supply chain in place for requisite spares. Reminds one of Augusta Westland and Mig-29 - Mirage 2000 deals.

Even the HAL Dhruv variants have substantial technology upgrades with each version that the mix of platforms in inventory (mk 1 to mk 4 in same units) at times have problems in receiving the spares

 

[Echo_419]

Can someone explain to me just what exactly the GoI is thinking with this deal?? Not only did they select the losing contender in the orginal RSH deal but they have nominated HAL as the lead Indian partner to produce the Ka-226T in India whilst HAL itself is working on its own LUH for the Indian armed forces, both looking to meet the 400 LUH requirement of the IA/IAF. However, there will be follow-on orders made for sure and thus the Ka-226T and LUH are CLEAR competitors- every success for the LUH will come at the cost of success for the Ka-226T and vice versa. It is a obvious conflict of interests for HAL and I don't know how this model looks feasible to the MoD/GoI- it will be only logical that HAL backs its in-house product but the last thing you want is this translating to sub-par work on the Ka-226T. I'm not saying they'd sabotage it- not at all, but clearly if their entire focus isn't on the Ka-226T and they know that it is a competitor to their own product then they clearly won't put their all behind the Ka-226T production.


The work on the Ka-226T deal is going so spectacuarly slowly that I think the first Ka-226T could beat the LUH into Indian service by a matter of months so there isn't an argument really that the GoI is looking to meet the urgent requirements of the armed forces.

Other than being a small (very small in the grand scheme of things) "lollipop" to Russia, there seems to be little logic behind the deal and, in fact, it seems counter-productive in a lot of ways.


@PARIKRAMA @Levina @ni8mare @hellfire @Echo_419 @ranjeet @Star Wars @JanjaWeed @nair @Taygibay @SpArK @acetophenol @Parul @Koovie @anant_s @Nilgiri

Full agreed, a better option would have been to give this deal to another company(pvt) to foster competition in this sector

 

[Abingdonboy]

Full agreed, a better option would have been to give this deal to another company(pvt) to foster competition in this sector

I guess under the "Make and buy India" DPP clause the foreign OEM nominates who their Indian partner would be and Kamov picked HAL which took that element (private particiaption) off the table, the GoI simply had no say in the matter. BUT, the GoI/MoD should have antipicated this as Kamov would have had to disclose this from the outset. Given the recent friendliness between India and France (the manufactuerer of the Fennec being French of course) and that Airbus already has tie ups with Indian private entities, it makes me think this was a purely poltical decsion to award the RSH contract to Russia.

 

[Levina]

Can someone explain to me just what exactly the GoI is thinking with this deal?? Not only did they select the losing contender in the orginal RSH deal but they have nominated HAL as the lead Indian partner to produce the Ka-226T in India whilst HAL itself is working on its own LUH for the Indian armed forces, both looking to meet the 400 LUH requirement of the IA/IAF. However, there will be follow-on orders made for sure and thus the Ka-226T and LUH are CLEAR competitors- every success for the LUH will come at the cost of success for the Ka-226T and vice versa. It is a obvious conflict of interests for HAL and I don't know how this model looks feasible to the MoD/GoI- it will be only logical that HAL backs its in-house product but the last thing you want is this translating to sub-par work on the Ka-226T. I'm not saying they'd sabotage it- not at all, but clearly if their entire focus isn't on the Ka-226T and they know that it is a competitor to their own product then they clearly won't put their all behind the Ka-226T production.


The work on the Ka-226T deal is going so spectacuarly slowly that I think the first Ka-226T could beat the LUH into Indian service by a matter of months so there isn't an argument really that the GoI is looking to meet the urgent requirements of the armed forces.

Other than being a small (very small in the grand scheme of things) "lollipop" to Russia, there seems to be little logic behind the deal and, in fact, it seems counter-productive in a lot of ways.


@PARIKRAMA @Levina @ni8mare @hellfire @Echo_419 @ranjeet @Star Wars @JanjaWeed @nair @Taygibay @SpArK @acetophenol @Parul @Koovie @anant_s @Nilgiri

Correct me if I am wrong but weren't Reliance group associated with this project??
And I thought Ka-226T was a great machine, which needs lesser space to manoeuvre. And since it has twin engines, it can survive the failure of one of its engines.

 

[jetray]

well russia has chosen hal to make the choppers as they are capable of doing so.

May be russians are counting on idiots in HAL not to learn anything or absorb the technology. As such HAL will always be dependent on russia for critical know how and trouble shooting. In short russia can continue doing business and milking us without fear of losing it.

 

[Abingdonboy]

May be russians are counting on idiots in HAL not to learn anything or absorb the technology. As such HAL will always be dependent on russia for critical know how and trouble shooting. In short russia can continue doing business and milking us without fear of losing it.

"Idiots in HAL", want to rephrase that my friend?

Correct me if I am wrong but weren't Reliance group associated with this project??

Nope, that was pure speculation. Kamov nominated HAL to be their Indian partner.

And since it has twin engines, it can survive the failure of one of its engines.

True but it also adds addtional layers of cost/maintainence and is surplus to requirements- the IAF/IA were only interested in 1 engine from the outset and have been operating very old single engined helos in this role for years with little issues so a more modern RSH/LUH with a modern engine (even if only one) should suffice.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

First understand the role ........Bell Huey is not a LOH or LUH

But is it not strange that there is a light helo which has twin engines? That would automatically make it mid/ heavy because of weight increase right?

 

[jetray]

"Idiots in HAL", want to rephrase that my friend?

Well mate it might sound bit harsh, but with personally knowing ppl who work there it is not completely false either.

 

[Nilgiri]

Well mate it might sound bit harsh, but with personally knowing ppl who work there it is not completely false either.

out of interest, are your friends on the shop floor looking up....or are they in management looking down?

 

[jetray]

out of interest, are your friends on the shop floor looking up....or are they in management looking down?

not frnds mate , relatives young(on shop floor) & old (retired).
HAL,HMT,BEL were some of the famous factories that most of the ppl used to be employed earlier in the past. The lackadaisical attitude of workers ( and management) caused shutdown of HMT. Only reason HAL is running bcos it is related to defence. ppl get picked up in the morning by company bus , have nice food in canteen , read news paper and return back on time during evening. By the way standards are not high , if you pay the rt person you will be through.

One of my uncle(deceased) is used to travel to Bhopal occasionally when i was young. I really used to think , wow that is a great work to manufacture fighters. Later when I grew up ,got to know from my father that my uncle used to travel to help them assemble the kits.

Its not only HAL, even DRDO is same. During graduation one of my classmates did his final year project from (CAIR). The project was firewall based on linux. ppl in CAIR used to come in morning , have lnch and leave at evening on company bus. Finally during the final semester when project was due they simply got away saying that project cannot be demoed or inspected as it is confidential .