Russia has signed with Iraq a contract for the delivery of KA-52 helicopter

[Doritos11]

Nevermind message above.

KA 52 is confirmed.
Iraq to Receive Russian Military Helicopters - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

 

[zzzz]

 

[TheThreePashas]

Just more petrodollar junk for the Kurds to blow up when they become independent. Keep wasting money Iraq

 

[Doritos11]

Just more petrodollar junk for the Kurds to blow up when they become independent. Keep wasting money Iraq

Its for against terrorists not Kurds/KRG.

 

[TheThreePashas]

Its for against terrorists not Kurds/KRG.

For now it is.

 

[Doritos11]

For now it is.

So whats your point ?

Today 27 people died by terrorists, should they just buy no weapons and let the terrorists kill them ?
As for KRG, why do you care your from Turkey, your a Kemalist aswell, not so much from the Kurdloving section.

 

[scholseys]

Kurdish terrorists must be dealt accordingly

 

[TheThreePashas]

So whats your point ?

Today 27 people died by terrorists, should they just buy no weapons and let the terrorists kill them ?
As for KRG, why do you care your from Turkey, your a Kemalist aswell, not so much from the Kurdloving section.

Haha. I'm not a Kemalist, I'm a Nationalist. Regardless.

I have a very different, unorthodox opinion on the Kurdish issue. I think Turkey can solve its Kurdish problem by allying with Kurds in Syria and Iraq, supporting them and creating a Kurdish state that doesn't harm Turkey's unity. This would solve domestic issues because its a very strong symbolic showing by the government that not only does Turkey have nothing against Kurds, but we actually would be supporting them. Keep in mind Kurds and Turks are still closer to eachother than Turks and Arabs.

Sounds horrible but basically Turkey should fix its problem by screwing over a unified Iraq. (Note: I wouldn't hold this opinion if I personally thought Iraq could regain stability as a unified nation)

 

[Doritos11]

Haha. I'm not a Kemalist, I'm a Nationalist. Regardless.

I have a very different, unorthodox opinion on the Kurdish issue. I think Turkey can solve its Kurdish problem by allying with Kurds in Syria and Iraq, supporting them and creating a Kurdish state that doesn't harm Turkey's unity. This would solve domestic issues because its a very strong symbolic showing by the government that not only does Turkey have nothing against Kurds, but we actually would be supporting them. Keep in mind Kurds and Turks are still closer to eachother than Turks and Arabs.

Sounds horrible but basically Turkey should fix its problem by screwing over a unified Iraq. (Note: I wouldn't hold this opinion if I personally thought Iraq could regain stability as a unified nation)

I know what you think would work.

Creating a Kurdish state in Syrian/Iraqi & possibly Iranian land to move the Kurdish dream there.
You think this would stop the idea of Kurds in Turkey for their own state and make them move to Iraqi/Syrian Kurdistan.
While it might just aswell fuel more motivation for them to take that land, it will give them more power cause they would have a state just south of them.

Today Turkey being "friendly" to KRG is nothing but for Economic benefits, cheap oil/gas and Turkish companies investing, building hotels&malls.

Only your idea as I said might turn into a greater danger for "unified" Turkey, Kurds will not drop their seperatism in Turkey if they see a state in Syria or Iraq, it will give them more discipline to fight.

 

[TheThreePashas]

I know what you think would work.

Creating a Kurdish state in Syrian/Iraqi & possibly Iranian land to move the Kurdish dream there.
You think this would stop the idea of Kurds in Turkey for their own state and make them move to Iraqi/Syrian Kurdistan.
While it might just aswell fuel more motivation for them to take that land, it will give them more power cause they would have a state just south of them.

Today Turkey being "friendly" to KRG is nothing but for Economic benefits, cheap oil/gas and Turkish companies investing, building hotels&malls.

Only your idea as I said might turn into a greater danger for "unified" Turkey, Kurds will not drop their seperatism in Turkey if they see a state in Syria or Iraq, it will give them more discipline to fight.

Screwing over Iraq might just be start of screwing your own country.

First of all, thanks for having a serious discussion about this and not killing me because of what I said.

You're definitely right in that I'm assuming that they will drop their ambitions and you're assuming the opposite. Until we see what happens its just a matter of competing opinions. Just a few points..

-I wouldn't suggest splitting of part of Iran for Kurdistan. It's just too close to Southern Azerbaijan. As a Pan-Turkist, while I'm not necessarily saying lets combine Turkey-S.Azer-Azerbaijan (I'm not even so sure Azerbaijan "unifying" would be a great idea), it would risk the geographic connection between Azerbaijan and Turkey to give land to Kurds there.

-I do think Kurds would drop their ambition for Turkish land. There's several reasons for this.
-A) They're main backer and only friendly nation surrounding them would be Turkey. Confronting Turkey is suicide.
-B) Essentially creating peace between Turkey and the Kurdish people would kill a huge recruiting point and rallying point for Kurds against Turkey.
-C) We'd have a target to hit if an independent Kurdistan tried to gain Turkish territory. It's a lot easier to bomb the **** outta Iraqi Kurdistan than to move around in your own country, avoid killing your own people, bombing your own buildings, and get shot at by cowardly terrorists than for the Turkish military to have a conventional target.
-D) Kurds would now have something to lose. Populations resort to terrorism because they have no economic/political incentive not to. They would have their own, probably pretty prosperous country to go to now. Keep in mind there's probably still a ton of unaccounted for Kurds in Turkey left over from Saddam gassing everyone. Their poverty and a lack of jobs is the main reason they support the PKK. Keep in mind, the Kurdish-populated parts of Turkey are very poor compared to the Western parts of Turkey. In the Middle East, bread on the table talks.



- I do agree though that right now the cooperation is based on economics. But economic incentives lead to lasting peace. Look at any place in the world where there's conflict and it's because there's no economic incentive to keep the peace. If Gaza wasn't so poor why would they fire rockets into Israel if they're growing economy could be destroyed by a few airstrikes?

 

[Doritos11]

First of all, thanks for having a serious discussion about this and not killing me because of what I said.

You're definitely right in that I'm assuming that they will drop their ambitions and you're assuming the opposite. Until we see what happens its just a matter of competing opinions. Just a few points..

-I wouldn't suggest splitting of part of Iran for Kurdistan. It's just too close to Southern Azerbaijan. As a Pan-Turkist, while I'm not necessarily saying lets combine Turkey-S.Azer-Azerbaijan (I'm not even so sure Azerbaijan "unifying" would be a great idea), it would risk the geographic connection between Azerbaijan and Turkey to give land to Kurds there.

-I do think Kurds would drop their ambition for Turkish land. There's several reasons for this.
-A) They're main backer and only friendly nation surrounding them would be Turkey. Confronting Turkey is suicide.
-B) Essentially creating peace between Turkey and the Kurdish people would kill a huge recruiting point and rallying point for Kurds against Turkey.
-C) We'd have a target to hit if an independent Kurdistan tried to gain Turkish territory. It's a lot easier to bomb the **** outta Iraqi Kurdistan than to move around in your own country, avoid killing your own people, bombing your own buildings, and get shot at by cowardly terrorists than for the Turkish military to have a conventional target.
-D) Kurds would now have something to lose. Populations resort to terrorism because they have no economic/political incentive not to. They would have their own, probably pretty prosperous country to go to now. Keep in mind there's probably still a ton of unaccounted for Kurds in Turkey left over from Saddam gassing everyone. Their poverty and a lack of jobs is the main reason they support the PKK. Keep in mind, the Kurdish-populated parts of Turkey are very poor compared to the Western parts of Turkey. In the Middle East, bread on the table talks.



- I do agree though that right now the cooperation is based on economics. But economic incentives lead to lasting peace. Look at any place in the world where there's conflict and it's because there's no economic incentive to keep the peace. If Gaza wasn't so poor why would they fire rockets into Israel if they're growing economy could be destroyed by a few airstrikes?

Today Turkey is the lifeline for Iraqi Kurdistans economy if Iraq cuts the GDP share or if they go independent, though when they go independent the situation will be different, they are landlocked so they need friends but Turkey is not the only option.
What if Iran or Iraq allows them to export/import ( oil ) through their ports/pipelines or such a possibility in post war Syria.
Especially Iran, after all we have seen Iranian-Kurdish friendship in wars like the Iran-Iraq war or before that when the Shah supported Kurdish rebels in Iraq.

We both know how Pro USA/Israel Barzani is, he might even bring their military bases in his country making it impossible for Turkey just to bomb them like how you described.
What you said is a possibility, though I do not believe it will work.
After all it all depends on Turkey and Iraq, what party will come to power after Erdogan or Iraqs growing military capabilities that might stop KRG from doing certain things.

Only IMO I dont even want that land back, they do hold some land without permission outside KRG boundaries, if they go independent they would be pushed out of those lands, invading KRG boundaries might bring trouble with the UN, all depends on what kind of leader Iraq gets in the future, if we get another nationalist that claims Kuwait and such then there will be more problems.

 

[Alshawi1234]

Haha. I'm not a Kemalist, I'm a Nationalist. Regardless.

I have a very different, unorthodox opinion on the Kurdish issue. I think Turkey can solve its Kurdish problem by allying with Kurds in Syria and Iraq, supporting them and creating a Kurdish state that doesn't harm Turkey's unity. This would solve domestic issues because its a very strong symbolic showing by the government that not only does Turkey have nothing against Kurds, but we actually would be supporting them. Keep in mind Kurds and Turks are still closer to eachother than Turks and Arabs.

Sounds horrible but basically Turkey should fix its problem by screwing over a unified Iraq. (Note: I wouldn't hold this opinion if I personally thought Iraq could regain stability as a unified nation)

To be Honost, Kurdistan is already seperate from Iraq, only officially it's not. Most Iraqis don't really care if Kurdistan declares indeoendance, that will be great since we wouldn't have to share our budget and resources with them. Iraq will be able to make use of $15+ billion dollars if Kurdistan separates. A war over control over the mountainous kurdish region won happen neither since Even the Iraqi givernemtn isn't too concerned about them. Our only problem is some areas in which are mixed, Arabs, Turkmen, Assyrian, and other minorities live in these areas which the Kurds are trying to take, I think Iraq could handle any Kurdish attempt to take over these land since they are plains and flatlands, not they type of land Kurds are capable of fighting on. They won't hold in the face of the Iraqi army.

Suppose a war occurred, The Iraqis will just Push the Kurds back as much as they can and stop advancing, they won't enter a long term suicidal war in the Kurdish areas.

Having said all that, a Kurdish-Iraqi war is unlikely anytime soon, because both parties need the stability.