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Russia can't deliver on Fifth Generation Fighter Aircatft project : Indian Air Force

Guess how China managed to become the 2nd largest GDP, by Selling Garbage.
Also guess which country is buying most of this Garbage???
Even a 2 year old would have more brains than your Garbage mouth.


Money is just a number in the bank account. It is industrial power that counts. China has by far the most powerful industry in the world. Japan lost to American in WW2 because its industry was no match for America's industry.
 
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Money is just a number in the bank account. It is industrial power that counts. China has by far the most powerful industry in the world. Japan lost to American in WW2 because its industry was no match for America's industry

Off topic : tell me something.. This is the 5th time in as many days I've seen you at it. You pop in at Indian threads
and try and derail the meaningful discussions with your bucket loads of shyte. Is it a congenital disorder ie birth defect or something you caught up with later in your life ?
 
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Simply the Russians are not as dumb selling their core technologies to india at a cheap $6 billion (?)
If they do so it is the most stupid thing for the Russians to do
They are very good in milking cows obviously
The incapable indians have already got the biggest help from the Russians in their GSLV.recently
I think the indians have to feel happy and satified with what the Russians have done for them so far after arming the indians with 70% of the weapons and technology.

Money is just a number in the bank account. It is industrial power that counts. China has by far the most powerful industry in the world. Japan lost to American in WW2 because its industry was no match for America's industry.

I dont think the indians can understand that
dont waste your time
 
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US f35 program cost more than 100 billions dollars during the developing phase, Indian want to pay 6 billions dollars to buy the whole new 5 generation fighter jet technology from Russia, India ask too much for their money.
 
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Money was never the issue with us Indians. Every year the defense allocation funds get returned to the kitty because our politicians sit on their fat arses for ages before coming to a decision. 2012's allocation of Rs 37,000 crores (USD 6 billion and change) was returned because they dilly dallying with the arms procurement processes. We are currently sitting on a dedicated kitty of $25 billion odd dollars because of the same effing problem. :-/

If money is not an issue with india then why you dont allocate a lot more for the military budget
 
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If money is not an issue with india then why you dont allocate a lot more for the military budget

Our inept bueaucracy can't even spend the annual allocations that are being made as it is.
 
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Inferior Intellect, unsound argument. Come back when you can make a coherent argument.



The joke is on India who has to import and rebrand CHinese made phone as Indian, you have zero manufacturing capability :omghaha:

Trade between India and China is actually a very bad deal for India. Between US and China, US has to just print more money to get Chinese stuff. Between India and China, India is relying on the remittance from its people working in foreign countries send back dollars to buy Chinese stuff. And China generally send junk to India. So all those hard work get them junk.
 
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India should wait for Russia completed their developing of the T-50 then buy it off from them, instead of down payment 6 billions dollars and hope Russia will transfer the 5 generation technologies to India aerospace industry.
 
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Our inept bueaucracy can't even spend the annual allocations that are being made as it is.

the red tape is just a front I think
they are setting up schemes of routing money to the Swiss banks

well do some calculations as some posters before me have pointed it out
The $6 billion is just the smallest peanut you are giving to the Russians for a 5th generation ToT
where beyond that if successfully conducted will have the sky as your limit
 
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India should wait for Russia completed their developing of the T-50 then buy it off from them, instead of down payment 6 billions dollars and hope Russia will transfer the 5 generation technologies to India aerospace industry.

the problem is that Russia is low on cash. So Ruskies use super power India as the cash cow and milk them good. Just check out the free carrier deal how much India had to pay.
 
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Russia milk India for the start up cost to research and develop the stealth technologies, they won't pass the secret to India and lost out their future earning with their investment.

the problem is that Russia is low on cash. So Ruskies use super power India as the cash cow and milk them good. Just check out the free carrier deal how much India had to pay.


India in the process of building their own carrier, why did they paid 2.8 billions dollars to refit a 40,000 tons aircraft carrier even the Russian don't want to waste their money on and refit for their own navy. Small aircraft carrier limit amount of jets can be launch off the carrier platform.
 
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Russia milk India for the start up cost to research and develop the stealth technologies, they won't pass the secret to India and lost out their future earning with their investment.




India in the process of building their own carrier, why did they paid 2.8 billions dollars to refit a 40,000 tons aircraft carrier even the Russian don't want to waste their money on and refit for their own navy. Small aircraft carrier limit amount of jets can be launch off the carrier platform.

India's decision to pay the 2.8 bil can only be explain by the kick back amount. Many Indian politicians can retire after that deal.
 
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India should wait for Russia completed their developing of the T-50 then buy it off from them, instead of down payment 6 billions dollars and hope Russia will transfer the 5 generation technologies to India aerospace industry.

No country, person , company will start a project for you if downpayment and timely instalments are not paid.
 
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Russia Can't Deliver on Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft: IAF (excerpt)
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Russia Can't Deliver on Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft: IAF (excerpt)
(Source: Business Standard; published January 21, 2014)
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MUMBAI --- The Indian Air Force (IAF) has done a stunning about-turn, sharply criticising the showpiece Indo-Russian project to co-develop a futuristic Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Even as New Delhi and Moscow finalise a $6 billion deal to co-develop an FGFA with capabilities tailor-made for India, the IAF has alleged the Russians would be unable to meet their promises about its performance.

So vital is the FGFA considered for the IAF's future that Defence Minister A K Antony has publicly rejected any prospect of buying the American fifth generation F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, declaring the FGFA would suffice. In 2007, New Delhi and Moscow highlighted the fighter's criticality by signing an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) placing the project above MoD procurement rules. Moreover, Indian scientists say the expertise gained from the FGFA will provide crucial momentum for developing an all-Indian fifth generation fighter, designated the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Yet, with so much riding on the FGFA, the IAF has taken aback the MoD with its complaint that it would not be good enough. On December 24, in a meeting in New Delhi chaired by Gokul Chandra Pati, the secretary of defence production, top IAF officials argued the FGFA has "shortfalls… in terms of performance and other technical features."

Business Standard has reviewed the minutes of that meeting. The IAF's three top objections to the FGFA were: (a) The Russians are reluctant to share critical design information with India; (b) The fighter's current AL-41F1 engines are inadequate, being mere upgrades of the Sukhoi-30MKI's AL-31 engines; and (c) It is too expensive. With India paying $6 billion to co-develop the FGFA, "a large percentage of IAF's capital budget will be locked up."

On January 15, the IAF renewed the attack in New Delhi, at a MoD meeting to review progress on the FGFA. The IAF's deputy chief of air staff (DCAS), its top procurement official, declared the FGFA's engine was unreliable, its radar inadequate, its stealth features badly engineered, India's work share too low, and that the fighter's price would be exorbitant by the time it enters service.

Top MoD sources suspect the IAF is undermining the FGFA to free up finances for buying 126 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for an estimated $18 billion, an acquisition that has run into financial headwinds because of budgetary constraints. In October 2012, then IAF boss, Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne, announced the IAF would buy only 144 FGFAs instead of the 214 that were originally planned. Having cut the numbers, the IAF is now questioning the very benefit of co-developing the FGFA with Russia. (end of excerpt)

Russia can't deliver on Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft: IAF | Business Standard

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has done a stunning about-turn, sharply criticising the showpiece Indo-Russian project to co-develop a futuristic Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Even as New Delhi and Moscow finalise a $6 billion deal to co-develop an FGFA with capabilities tailor-made for India, the IAF has alleged the Russians would be unable to meet their promises about its performance.

So vital is the FGFA considered for the IAF's future that Defence Minister A K Antony has publicly rejected any prospect of buying the American fifth generation F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, declaring the FGFA would suffice. In 2007, New Delhi and Moscow highlighted the fighter's criticality by signing an Inter Governmental Agreement (IGA) placing the project above MoD procurement rules. Moreover, Indian scientists say the expertise gained from the FGFA will provide crucial momentum for developing an all-Indian fifth generation fighter, designated the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Yet, with so much riding on the FGFA, the IAF has taken aback the MoD with its complaint that it would not be good enough. On December 24, in a meeting in New Delhi chaired by Gokul Chandra Pati, the secretary of defence production, top IAF officials argued the FGFA has "shortfalls… in terms of performance and other technical features."

Business Standard has reviewed the minutes of that meeting. The IAF's three top objections to the FGFA were: (a) The Russians are reluctant to share critical design information with India; (b) The fighter's current AL-41F1 engines are inadequate, being mere upgrades of the Sukhoi-30MKI's AL-31 engines; and (c) It is too expensive. With India paying $6 billion to co-develop the FGFA, "a large percentage of IAF's capital budget will be locked up."

On January 15, the IAF renewed the attack in New Delhi, at a MoD meeting to review progress on the FGFA. The IAF's deputy chief of air staff (DCAS), its top procurement official, declared the FGFA's engine was unreliable, its radar inadequate, its stealth features badly engineered, India's work share too low, and that the fighter's price would be exorbitant by the time it enters service.

Top MoD sources suspect the IAF is undermining the FGFA to free up finances for buying 126 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for an estimated $18 billion, an acquisition that has run into financial headwinds because of budgetary constraints. In October 2012, then IAF boss, Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne, announced the IAF would buy only 144 FGFAs instead of the 214 that were originally planned. Having cut the numbers, the IAF is now questioning the very benefit of co-developing the FGFA with Russia.

Fifth-generation fighters are qualitatively superior to current "Generation 4.5" fighters like the Sukhoi-30MKI. They are designed for stealth, which makes these near-invisible to radar; they "supercruise", that is, fly at supersonic speed without lighting engine afterburners (which some current fighters like the Rafale also do); and they have futuristic avionics and missiles.

The MoD and HAL have countered the IAF's objections to the FGFA. Russian officials have clarified that the current prototype's engine, the AL-41F1, is a temporary solution to let the flight-test programme continue. A new engine being developed in Russia will eventually power both the FGFA and PAK-FA.

Officials also say the FGFA programme involves co-developing radar far superior to the one on current prototypes. The Russian Air Force wants conventional radar for its version of the FGFA, which looks only towards the front. The IAF wants two additional radars that look side-wards, allowing the pilot vision all around. Now the Russians are evaluating a similar requirement.

Asked for comments, the IAF has not responded. The MoD and HAL, who were requested for comments via email, have also remained silent.

While the MoD, HAL and the IAF continue discussions, Russia has gone ahead with developing a fifth-generation fighter. The Sukhoi Design Bureau has designed and done 300 test-flights of the T-50, the stealth fighter Sukhoi and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) plan to refine into the FGFA in about eight years. The Russian Air Force, which has less ambitious specifications than the IAF, plans to induct into service its own version of the T-50, the PAK-FA (Perspektivny Aviatsionny Kompleks Frontovoy Aviatsii, or 'Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation') by 2017-18.

After the IGA of October 2007, a General Contract was signed in December 2008 between HAL and Rosoboronexport, Russia's defence exports agency. This laid out general principles of cooperation, such as work share, cost sharing and sale of the FGFA to third countries. In December 2010, a Preliminary Design Contract was signed, which led to the FGFA's basic configuration and selection of its systems and equipment. With that completed in June 2013, the crucial R&D contract is now being negotiated. This will encompass the actual design and development of the FGFA.
 
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