Ron Paul: Who REALLY started HAMAS…

[Indos]

Blowback: How Israel Helped Create Hamas​

 

[Menthol]

Whites people tend to think short.

They just want to solve one problem right now, without thinking about the long term.

And they blame others as the source of the problem instead of themselves.

They don't want to understand what other people are thinking and feeling.

They are just prioritizing themselves.


Muslims are problematic because they are fanatics, and if Muslims are not, they are problematic as well.

Russia is problematic because they are peaceful and wise, and if it's not, it's problematic as well.

So does China and all countries, people, around the world. All of them.

If you are not democratic, then you are problematic, but if you do, then you are problematic.

 

[uhuru]

Blowback: How Israel Helped Create Hamas​

of course..

when the first intefada happened, I do remember it well. Isreal muzzled down hard... there was no hamas.

They then fractured the palestinians with divide/rule by having hamas to act as a proxy.

 

[aziqbal]

maybe but

Hamas is a ideology which cannot be defeated

if you kill every Hamas member another Hamas Part 2 will emerge

the Head of the MI5 said that you cannot separate radicalisation from the Israeli foreign policy

Hamas is a result of the dehumanisation of the Palestinians

for every child you kill you created 2-3 more Hamas members

which is why Hamas cannot be killed

its like what happened after 9/11, US went after every Al Qaeda member which were roughly 30,000

22 years later the number is now 300,000 and over 20 different groups

US and Israel have only speeded up the radicalisation and its going to bite them back hard one day

 

[Indos]

maybe but

Hamas is a ideology which cannot be defeated

if you kill every Hamas member another Hamas Part 2 will emerge

the Head of the MI5 said that you cannot separate radicalisation from the Israeli foreign policy

Hamas is a result of the dehumanisation of the Palestinians

for every child you kill you created 2-3 more Hamas members

which is why Hamas cannot be killed

its like what happened after 9/11, US went after every Al Qaeda member which were roughly 30,000

22 years later the number is now 300,000 and over 20 different groups

US and Israel have only speeded up the radicalisation and its going to bite them back hard one day

Hamas leaders are stupid and this group must not lead the resistance. I would say the same mindset with the likes of AQ and ISIS who think they can fight Western nations and even dare to fight established Muslim nations.

Yep, AQ and ISIS comes from the region where Authoritarian regimes are holding power. The same like Hamas comes from Palestinian territory that being under Israel occupation. These are people whose mind were corrupted due to their situation, but we cannot justify their wrong doing despite that is the case. Other Palestinian resistance like Fatah could still behave properly and abide with the morality and their religion despite under occupation.

Their way of fighting is not abide with Quran and Hadith but they keep saying they are Islamist. One of the characteristic of real Muslim is they are careful in their action due to afraid of God. Real believer will be very cautious even when they speak, while you see in here many Muslim PDF members cannot even restrain from using bad words while proclaiming they are the real Muslim and Jihadi supporter, you can look on that thread and we can see it clearly. Let alone justifying launching rocket to civilians homes or even slaughtering civilians in the street.

What happened when little kids get the rocket ? Do they dont think about that ? Or they dont have heart ? Killing unjustified target will get huge sin as killer. Hamas also dont care with Palestinian civilians, they know how Israel gov behave, but they keep trying that stupid thing that have cost many Palestinians lives since they are fighting the much more powerful opponent who dont care with civilians lives

1 Samuel 15:3 - Saul's Disobedience

Now go and attack the Amalekites and devote to destruction all that belongs to them. Do not spare them, but put to death men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.'

biblehub.com

While for Muslim we must not attack any civilians as they are not fighting us (meet in the battle)......

Why real Muslims are those who will be really cautious with their action ?

Surah Al-Mu'minun - 57 - Quran.com

Surely those who tremble in awe of their Lord,

quran.com

We see here those who claim they are the true Muslim saying bad words to other Muslim and even cursing other Muslim nations, countries, and so on

Hadith: A Muslim is the one from whose tongue and hand Muslims are safe, and a Muhājir (emigrant) is the one who abandons what Allah has forbidden - Encyclopedia of Translated Prophetic Hadiths

Hadith: A Muslim is the one from whose tongue and hand Muslims are safe, and a Muhājir (emigrant) is the one who abandons what Allah has forbidden - Encyclopedia of Translated Prophetic Hadiths

hadeethenc.com

Despite we are fighting the monster (Israel gov), we still must abide to the rule based on Quran and Hadith.

Surah Ali 'Imran - 110 - Quran.com

You are the best community ever raised for humanity—you encourage good, forbid evil, and believe in Allah. Had the People of the Book believed, it wou...

quran.com

 

[Indos]

Does Hamas missinterpret this Quran verse ?

Here those who fight us of course those include enemy politician like Netanyahu and the active soldiers, women children civilians from the enemy side of course are not those mentioned in that verse above since they are not those wage war agains Muslims. But those from active soldiers and politicians who ordered the war can be killed. This is war and God give the Muslims assurance that they will not be punished if they killed those active soldiers and politicians who ordered and supported the war against Muslim.

If they dont fight Muslims any more so we have to made cease fire and stop the war and try to be nice with one another

Surah Al-Baqarah - 190-194 - Quran.com

(190) Fight in the cause of Allah ˹only˺ against those who wage war against you, but do not exceed the limits. Allah does not like transgressors.

quran.com

Muslim must always remember other verse when they want to interpret Quran verses so they will not misinterpret it

Justice is key in the core of Islam, killing someone that is not about to kill us in the battle (non combatan) cannot be justified. Even when many Israeli civilians support the war, we cannot kill them since their effort is in the form of moral support, not really holding guns or driving tanks to kill us

Here is the verse

 

[Indos]

When the enemy is too powerful, dont fight them militarily, you will be vanished. This is why God only send the verse about war after prophet Muhammad migrate to Madinah where in that place he becomes King where Madinah and Mecca (the enemy during that time) is pretty comparable.

For about 13 years prophet Muhammad is abused in Mecca but God never told prophet to fight the abuser.

We cannot use just one Quran verses to justify our action, there are many Quran verses that become the consideration since Quran verse comes in different context. Many stories in Quran as well where we can learn about what in Islam call as Hikmah (Wisdom based on Quran knowledge)

 

[lightning F57]

When the enemy is too powerful, dont fight them militarily, you will be vanished. This is why God only send the verse about war after prophet Muhammad migrate to Madinah where in that place he becomes King where Madinah and Mecca (the enemy during that time) is pretty comparable.

For about 13 years prophet Muhammad is abused in Mecca but God never told prophet to fight the abuser.

We cannot use just one Quran verses to justify our action, there are many Quran verses that become the consideration since Quran verse comes in different context. Many stories in Quran as well where we can learn about what in Islam call as Hikmah (Wisdom based on Quran knowledge)

This is a complicated topic, I agree with what you said rules of engagement are clear in Islam and hamas killing civilians firing rockets into civilian areas gos against those rules even if the apartheid regime doesn't care how it operates with the Palestinians.

Violent and non violent resistance against the occupier is allowed but it must be directed and done in a manner which conforms to islamic teachings.

In 2019 there was a peaceful non violent march in gaza what did Israel do shoot children, disabled people, other innocent civilians. The Palestinians are up against one of the worst regimes in our times they have no regards for Palestinians and are happy for the world to forget them. Only time the world remembers is when a big event like 7th October happens. In the West Bank there is no Hamas the apartheid regime has killed 40 kids over 200 people this year. They continue to build more settlements, settlers abusing taking more land.

While I condemn hamas fully for targeting innocent people even they are allowed to defend their selves when they have their human rights taken from them.

IMO they need to get rid of the charter to destroy Israel, need to reform change and accept Israel along 1967 borders and offer to lay down arms fully if a peace deal can be agreed. Problem is the right wing in Israel will never agree as they don't want to give up land. Then we are back here. If that is the case then if they want resist violently follow rules should engage suppressive apparatus the IDF, police, government as targets not civilians.

I can't speak for the Palestinians but if we are in their place, what would you do. Accept your fate living in an apartheid setup where you lose your land have fewer rights and freedoms live as a subhuman in this one big racist state or fight for your freedom anyway you can.

 

[Indos]

How many times Dutch massacred Indonesians when Indonesians tried to rebel ? There is no limit in patience, Indonesia was under Dutch for hundred years.

Gaza is basically already relatively free than West Bank....

 

[Indos]

French President Macron calls on Israel to stop killing Gaza's women and babies – BBC News​

 

[Indos]