Roman Empire vs Han Empire

[TheTruth]

And China was raided by savages on horses. So much so, they made a wall to repel them out.

Rome was annihilated by savages on horses, except they were 100x weaker than the ones China has faced all throughout history.

Rome has no territorial integrity, with that i agree, but it's cultural legacy is present on four out of the five continents today.

Wrong. It's "cultural legacy" is a fabrication by Westerners who are insecure about their complete lack of anything resembling a real history. Western history is simply Arab and Chinese history, no real relation to Romans and Greeks.

 

[Audio]

Rome was annihilated by savages on horses, except they were 100x weaker than the ones China has faced all throughout history.

The battle for Beijing was long and tiresome, but the Mongols proved to be more powerful as they finally took the city on 1 June 1215, massacring its inhabitants. This forced the Jin Emperor Xuanzong to move his capital south to Kaifeng, and opened the Yellow River valley to further Mongol ravages. Kaifeng fell to the Mongols after a siege in 1232.

Battle of Zhongdu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wrong. It's "cultural legacy" is a fabrication by Westerners who are insecure about their complete lack of anything resembling a real history. Western history is simply Arab and Chinese history, no real relation to Romans and Greeks.

gg.....

 

[TheTruth]

gg no re.

You'd have no history without China.

 

[Fattyacids]

Battle of Zhongdu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just one battle? Mongols fought Han for centuries, won only once, but were totally annihilated that they ceased to be a force again.

View attachment 161982
gg.....

That's Greek architecture, lol. Why post building from 1900's? We talking ancient Rome vs Han dynasty. Visit a library, learn how Han inventions helped the west civilized itself, influenced Roman culture and economy. Byzantine emperor even sent monks to steal from China.

The Invention of Printing in China and Its Spread Westward. (New York: Columbia University Press, 1931)
"A fascinating book which deals not only with printing and paper, but also touches on games, gunpowder, the compass, and many other subjects..."

Paper
The influence of paper upon the whole course of later Western civilization can hardly be overestimated. Without this material it is unlikely that printing could ever have come into general use. Gutenberg's Bible, for example, which is probably the earliest European book printed from movable type, also happens to be one of the few books some of whose copies were printed on parchment instead of paper. It has been estimated that to produce one copy of the Bible on parchment, the skins of no less than 300 sheep were required. Had such conditions continued permanently, books would never have been available to the masses except for the richest few. The debt of the world to Cai Lun is greater than the debt to many other whose names are better known.

Silk
The most important product from China to Rome was silk. In return, the Roman Empire sent to the Chinese precious stones, wool textiles, asbestos...Yet none of these products could balance in value the precious silk. Woven into a semitransparent gauze, silk became the fashion among the ladies of Rome. In some periods of history, silk was literally worth its weight in gold by the time it reached its destination. In fact, the Romans used so much silk that during the first two centuries A.D. Rome suffered an adverse trade balance estimated to equal no less than half a billion US dollars.

Europeans had no clear idea of how silk was produced. The Roman poet, Virgil (70-19 B.C.), for example, described silk as some kind of a vegetable product that is combed from trees. In middle of the sixth century, however, some monks arrived in Constantinople from the East, bearing the startling news that silk was not "combed from trees," but was produced by caterpillar. With the Byzantine Emperor's encouragement they were sent eastward once more to bring back the secret of silk. Some time between the years 552 and 554, the two monks smuggled silkworm eggs out of China inside a bamboo cane. And Byzantine silk industry was born.

 

[Audio]

Just one battle? Mongols fought Han for centuries, won only once, but were totally annihilated that they ceased to be a force again.

The current debate was revolving around the sacking of capitals by barbarians. Your colleague from the information ministry presented a narrative that this never happened in China, or at the minimum was trying to steer the debate in that direction.

Do try to comprehend the current issue, to what i'm replying to.

Btw, this "won only once, but were totally annihilated", i presume it includes that raid where they threw the reigning dynasty (Song) of the throne and started Mongol Yuan dynasty? The one where they subjugated whole of China? That victory? I'd say that counts.

If such lies are your modus operandi, we will not be discussing any further, as it is beneath me to deal with charlatans. In this case, you can carry on circle-jerking with your pals that thank your posts, blissfully unaware they reveal their own stupidity with it.
There's not one of you here that is fit for an intelligent debate except perhaps @Grand Historian (although he is fishy-but at least he admits his mistakes) and @magic-007 .

That's Greek architecture, lol. Why post building from 1900's? We talking ancient Rome vs Han dynasty.

That is colonial Greco-Roman inspired architecture yes. The argument was, there are no tangible traces of that culture, that it's Arab and Chinese (lol), or so whoever the "Taiwanese" i quoted was saying. Ironic that such a classic symbol of that culture then resides in Taipei.

I thought it was self explanatory why i posted that.

In no way i would be such a nincompoop to deny Chinese influence on European progress.
However, that does not go both ways, Chinese are pretty adamant about their selfsufficiency and greatness of their own culture, so much so they isolated themselves from the world. Well, as it turned out, they were wrong. They weren't the greatest, the best, the most advanced etc etc....as was the popular line of thought in China of those days and aparently today and which was the catalyst in deciding that no outside influence is needed.

A little bit of humility would go a long way for you Chinese. Still, after millenia you have not learned despite that false hubris knocking you down several times in history. Think about that. If you need examples, think of paper ,gunpowder, compass, what others achieved with it (expanded on it to achieve mass printed press, evolution of firearms, domination of the seas), when you Chinese were busy locking yourself up in your little imaginary bubble of greatness.

Mandate of heaven doesn't sound so heavenly now, does it?

Let me just say at the end, i respect ancient Chinese wisdom very very much, but at the same time i have conflicts in reconciling this wisdom with the lack of foresight (often associated with wisdom) that drove them into self induced isolation and ultimately stagnation.

 

[Audio]

gg no re.

You'd have no history without China.

Possibly. At the same time, if your emperors (trickling down to the ordinary bots it seems) weren't so full of yourself you'd have a much grander history. Such is life mate!

 

[TheTruth]

Possibly. At the same time, if your emperors (trickling down to the ordinary bots it seems) weren't so full of yourself you'd have a much grander history. Such is life mate!

Even with the last 200 years, China has a grander history than any other - we'll see what happens in the rest of our lifetimes.

 

[Audio]

Even with the last 200 years, China has a grander history than any other - we'll see what happens in the rest of our lifetimes.

Whatever you say, mate.

 

[TheTruth]

Whatever you say, mate.

objective fact. see my post about how there would be no history past 1500 without China, if even

 

[Audio]

objective fact. see my post about how there would be no history past 1500 without China, if even

Ok, objective facts. I presume this glory of past 200 years includes going to ask the westerners to pull you out of the gutter in which Mao in his divine wisdom brought you to?

May i remind you, that you nearly missed that train as well. If one of those cultural revolution red guards (young militia) would have been a bit overzealous and instead of just accompanying Deng to the countryside to his exile would have been a bit more, hands on, like they were with his son or more, bye bye Deng, bye bye modern China.

 

[TheTruth]

Ok, objective facts. I presume this glory of past 200 years includes going to ask the westerners to pull you out of the gutter in which Mao in his divine wisdom brought you to?

May i remind you, that you nearly missed that train as well. If one of those cultural revolution red guards (young militia) would have been a bit overzealous and instead of just accompanying Deng to the countryside to his exile would have been a bit more, hands on, like they were with his son or more, bye bye Deng, bye bye modern China.

China was full to the brim with people like Deng, he just stood up and led them. No one asked Westerners for help, it was overseas Chinese who stepped in and invested before greedy Westerners came around.

 

[Fattyacids]

The current debate was revolving around the sacking of capitals by barbarians. Your colleague from the information ministry presented a narrative that this never happened in China, or at the minimum was trying to steer the debate in that direction.

Do try to comprehend the current issue, to what i'm replying to.

Do your homework before you debate. Mongol Kublai Khan had high regard for Chinese civilization, Chinese capital wasn't sacked like those in middle eastern and europe.

That is colonial inspired Greco-Roman architecture yes. The argument was, there are no tangible traces of that culture, that it's Arab and Chinese (lol), or so whoever the "Taiwanese" i quoted was saying. Ironic that such a classic symbol of that culture then resides in Taipei.

I thought it was self explanatory why i posted that.

In no way i would be such a nincompoop to deny Chinese influence on European progress.
However, that does not go both ways, Chinese are pretty adamant about their selfsufficiency and greatness of their own culture, so much so they isolated themselves from the world. Well, as it turned out, they were wrong. They weren't the greatest, the best, the most advanced etc etc....as was the popular line of thought in China of those days and aparently today.

A little bit of humility would go a long way for you Chinese. Still, after millenia you have not learned despite that false hubris knocking you down several times in history. Think about that. If you need examples, think of paper ,gunpowder, compass, what others achieved with it (expanded on it to achieve mass printed press, evolution of firearms, domination of the seas), when you Chinese were busy locking yourself up in your little imaginary bubble of greatness.

Mandate of heaven doesn't sound so heavenly now, does it?

The building is Greek style, Roman copied it. Don't make dumb argument, building of ancient style represents art, not a symbol of culture. Taiwan has ZERO Roman culture.

There is no hubris, ancient China were the most advanced, China led the world until 18th century. The last three centuries maybe Europeans' but the last two millenniums were Chinese. All anomaly come to an end. Colonial era is over, you can't go around robbing no more. Last I read, Draghi is printing money, lol. Marshall Plan 2.0?

Why am I even talking about Europe? Rome is dead, Europe is made up of different nation states.

 

[Audio]

Do your homework before you debate. Mongol Kublai Khan had high regard for Chinese civilization, he didn't sack Chinese capital like they did in middle eastern and europe.



The building is Greek style, Roman copied it. Don't make dumb argument, building of ancient style represents art, not a symbol of culture. Taiwan has ZERO Roman culture.

There is no hubris, ancient China were the most advanced, China led the world until 18th century. The last three centuries maybe Europeans' but the last two millenniums were Chinese. All anomaly come to an end. Colonial era is over, you can't go around robbing no more. Last I read, Draghi is printing money, lol. Marshall Plan 2.0?

Why am I even talking about Europe? Rome is dead, Europe are all different nation states.

lol....i as well wonder why you do keep talking when you obviously have no clue.

It was Genghis Khan who sacked Beijing in 1215, and the building is a remnant of colonials who took Greco-Roman culture as their own after the dark ages. the mere fact that it stands there is a counter argument to the notion of the poster i was replying to.

As for your two millenia of dominance, LOL, dream on. In any case, keep lying and misrepresenting if it makes you feel any better. that's all you can do.

 

[Fattyacids]

lol....i as well wonder why you do keep talking when you obviously have no clue.

Making empty comment is proof that you've lost the argument.

 

[Audio]

Making empty comment is proof that you've lost the argument.

LOL, read it again, little misconstruer of facts

Genghis defeated the Jin forces, devastated northern China, captured numerous cities, and in 1215 besieged, captured and sacked the Jin capital of Yanjing (modern-day Beijing)

Mongol invasion of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One victory eh? Although there is some truth to your statement that after this victory the Mongols weren't a threat anymore, but that's not because they were beaten, but because they took China as their own.