Rise of "Islam" in the world

[KS]

Islam will enter every house, every land will be conquerd by us as “falsehood is bound to perish”which is stated in the quran, even if every kufar on this planet turns againtst muslims than wallahi not even than can they end this religion. now 1 in 4 people on this planet are muslims and islam did this in 1400 years NO religion has or can spread at such a speed, subhanallah. islam WILL dominate the word inshallah and the khilafa will too return very soon inshallah... stop it if u can america, peace.

....

Is it you in the picture ?

 

[user1]

There was only one society that was well regarded in civilizational terms among the Muslim empires and that was the Persian empire. Though it might be worth noting that they were civilized long before they before Islamicized and were only continuing the tradition. Even the Arabs got the whiff of culture and civilization only from the Persians.

It's better if you read the history of Andalucian Empire, no Persians were involved there and it was a country in tatters when Muslims (Arabs, Berbers) arrived here. When the 'Golden Age of Islam' is mentioned, it's not only Persia; it also happened in Iraq, Egypt and Andalucia.

 

[EjazR]

The crux of my thread is not "Islamic" militancy, but extremist ideologies that eventually threaten the stability of societies of relatively secular nations.

You argue that Wahabism/Salafism is not the problem in itself, but militancy is, regardless of what ideology it is springing from. My post has a different focus: rather than focusing on the war torn regions, my focus is on the developed countries of the world where extremism from "Islamists" is on the rise. Places like Australia, Europe, America etc. These people are not bringing a revival to Islam, but threaten the stability & balance of peaceful nations.

And I would argue that the ideology from pan-Islamists IS the problem (regardless of whether they are advocating militancy or not). Whatever societies pan-Islamists govern result in backward, intolerant, chauvinistic, uneducated, impoverished ones. The fundamental problem with pan-Islamism/Salafism is that it is reformist. It believes the world has deviated so much from the true meaning of Islam, that they need to reform everything. They believe women should have a limited role in society, they believe education that goes against their understanding of Islam is haram. They think Shias & Sunni Barelvis, & Muslims around the world do biddat & shirk. They have a general belief that everything that did not happen in the Prophet(S)'s life is impermissible. So to summarize, yes, they are the problem.

Btw, I do not support Iran either, the way they have influenced Iraq, Syria, Lebanon & even Pakistan in terms of extremism is there to see. The concept of Taqleed is means for them to politically control the Shia Muslim population under one banner, a similar concept to "the caliphate" in Arab countries/pan-Islamist countries.

NO Bilal, you are confusing political religious nationalists/internationalists which is the problem ideology that should be tackled with Salafism which is a school of thought.

I was specifying the IDEOLOGY that leads to militant groups in the name of Islam. Currently Iran is ruled by a religious cleric as the head of state - the only Muslim country in the world to do so. It uses POLITICAL shia Islam as a pillar of legitimacy. This is contrary to traditional Islamic including traditional shia Islam teachings and creates an atmosphere conducive for militant and extremist groups in the name of Islam.They have nothing to do with Salafis, but that doesn't mean Shia Islam is responsible for this. It is the political Islamic ideology used by Iranian political establishment that is the problem.

Similarly, when the governor of Punjab was assassinated by a Barelvi and all Barelvi religious groups felicitated the killer, it was really a political assassination trying to assert a political Barelvi power through this show of strength. But that doesn't mean Barelvi school of thought is responsible. Infact, most religions scholars will explain that it is UnIslamic for a person to become a vigilante and take law in its own hands.

And yes, similarly we have political Islamic groups which follow the Salafi school or the Deobandi school of thought. Its now the consequence of history that these groups ended up getting the financial and military training from half of the world during the Afghan-Soviet war and became quite powerful and which later resulted in terrorism blowback for the US, Saudis and Pakistanis.

The social aspects of a school of thought is something that is a cause of social concern but not a security concern. For example the Amish in the US don't even use electricity calling it the work of the devil and have very limited role for women. That is a social concern but not a security concern.

Do go through the link I mentioned in post and read the different posts there to understand the difference between the Salafi school of throught and the political religious nationalist ideology that should be combated.

 

[Zabaniyah]

See I am not in your league ok. tel me in wat way Arabs and persians lead the world??? tat in science and tech.Weird claim.

Looks like someone skipped history classes

 

[Maira La]

While don't discredit the achievements during Golden age of Islam, but how much of those were actually Persian in nature?

Persians are awesome.

But I'm not sure how much the Arabs contributed as a percentage during that period. Stuffs were going on within the Abbasid Caliphate, but maybe a lot of those scholars were Persian.

 

[user1]

See I am not in your league ok. tel me in wat way Arabs and persians lead the world??? tat in science and tech.Weird claim.

 

[KS]

It's better if you read the history of Andalucian Empire, no Persians were involved there and it was a country in tatters when Muslims (Arabs, Berbers) arrived here. When the 'Golden Age of Islam' is mentioned, it's not only Persia; it also happened in Iraq, Egypt and Andalucia.

Much of the scholars,scientists,poets in the Arab empire were Persian. Do you know that even in Arabic empire, Persian was the language of the educated ?

 

[Maira La]

(deleted... nvm getting a little off-topic)

 

[user1]

Much of the scholars,scientists,poets in the Arab empire were Persian. Do you know that even in Arabic empire, Persian was the language of the educated ?

In that case, Farsi (Persian) was supposed to be Pan-Islamic language. is it?

(Yes, that happened in India though).

 

[Maira La]

There was only one society that was well regarded in civilizational terms among the Muslim empires and that was the Persian empire. Though it might be worth noting that they were civilized long before they were Islamicized and were only continuing the tradition. Even the Arabs got the whiff of culture and civilization only from the Persians.

<Post #57>

I don't want to subscribe to the view that Arabs are not too bright, but with that much oil money they are yet to develop technologically sophisticated manufacturing industry.

---------- Post added at 01:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 AM ----------

r u aazidane ???

No. You're derailing this thread.

 

[53fd]

NO Bilal, you are confusing political religious nationalists/internationalists which is the problem ideology that should be tackled with Salafism which is a school of thought.

You misunderstand me. I never said political religion/political religion nationalists aren't a problem. I am also contesting your claim that Salafism, which is a school of thought, isn't a problem. I am arguing that Salafism as a school of thought is a problem as well.

I never meant to imply that Boko Haram or al-Qaeda are the examples of groups that practice the Salafi school of thought. And I agree with you when you said Salafi scholars condemned suicide bombings, as they are un-Islamic. That is not the issue.

The issue is that Salafism as the school of thought is reformist. It believes the world has deviated so much from the true meaning of Islam, that they need to reform everything. They believe women should have a limited role in society, they believe education that goes against their understanding of Islam is haram. They think Shias & Sunni Barelvis, & Muslims around the world do biddat & shirk. They have a general belief that everything that did not happen in the Prophet(S)'s life is impermissible. So to summarize, yes, they are the problem.

I was specifying the IDEOLOGY that leads to militant groups in the name of Islam.

I'm not talking about militancy in war torn regions. I am talking about the extremism (not militancy) of Islamists that threatens to destabilize societies in developed countries, & ruin their 'balance'.

Similarly, when the governor of Punjab was assassinated by a Barelvi and all Barelvi religious groups felicitated the killer, it was really a political assassination trying to assert a political Barelvi power through this show of strength.

In Pakistan, even Barelvis & Shias, traditionally peaceful are coming under the influence of Deobandis/Salafis. The incident you have highlighted reflects that. But Shias, non-Muslims have lived peacefully under the banner of the majority Barelvi population for centuries, it is only through the increasing influence of the Deobandis post 1947 that these groups are under threat of getting radicalized as well. But Pakistan is not the topic here, neither is my topic about militancy in war torn regions. I am more interested in the developments in the West, where the Muslim youth are becoming more radicalized and ruining the balance of secular societies in developed nations. Just the Burqa debates show that there needs to be inner reform within Muslim society.

The social aspects of a school of thought is something that is a cause of social concern but not a security concern.

Now you're coming to the crux of the problem I've been wanting to discuss on this thread. For example, in Central Asia, which have traditionally been secular under the Soviet regime, are becoming more radicalized, and are threatening to ruin the balance of society there. It might not be a security concern yet, but it might be in a few years, with powers exploiting the situation. That's not the point though. The point is that Muslim societies governed by Islamists are backward, uneducated, repressive, chauvinistic, opposed to change, intolerant, unprogressive etc. It might not be a security concern, but in a civilized society where Muslims are in huge numbers, they can also be a threat to the balance of society. You might not think it should be combated, but in my opinion, it definitely needs to be, and it is not something I would want Islam or Muslims to be associated with.

 

[Juice]

There is also a rise in autism in the world. Any studies on a link?

 

[K-Xeroid]

There is also a rise in autism in the world. Any studies on a link?

You mean this, Its also known as Barelvism. Its Sufiism of South asia.

 

[53fd]

NO Bilal, you are confusing political religious nationalists/internationalists which is the problem ideology that should be tackled with Salafism which is a school of thought.

I was specifying the IDEOLOGY that leads to militant groups in the name of Islam. Currently Iran is ruled by a religious cleric as the head of state - the only Muslim country in the world to do so. It uses POLITICAL shia Islam as a pillar of legitimacy. This is contrary to traditional Islamic including traditional shia Islam teachings and creates an atmosphere conducive for militant and extremist groups in the name of Islam.They have nothing to do with Salafis, but that doesn't mean Shia Islam is responsible for this. It is the political Islamic ideology used by Iranian political establishment that is the problem.

Similarly, when the governor of Punjab was assassinated by a Barelvi and all Barelvi religious groups felicitated the killer, it was really a political assassination trying to assert a political Barelvi power through this show of strength. But that doesn't mean Barelvi school of thought is responsible. Infact, most religions scholars will explain that it is UnIslamic for a person to become a vigilante and take law in its own hands.

And yes, similarly we have political Islamic groups which follow the Salafi school or the Deobandi school of thought. Its now the consequence of history that these groups ended up getting the financial and military training from half of the world during the Afghan-Soviet war and became quite powerful and which later resulted in terrorism blowback for the US, Saudis and Pakistanis.

The social aspects of a school of thought is something that is a cause of social concern but not a security concern. For example the Amish in the US don't even use electricity calling it the work of the devil and have very limited role for women. That is a social concern but not a security concern.

Do go through the link I mentioned in post and read the different posts there to understand the difference between the Salafi school of throught and the political religious nationalist ideology that should be combated.

For example, you might not think of this as a problem, but I think it is:

This is Australia btw. You'd find these kind of women all over Europe, Central Asia, Asia Pacific etc, where ever you see "Islamists" on the rise, threatening to disturb the balance in secular societies all over the world. I also suggest you watch these videos as well:

It is no coincidence that whatever societies these "Islamists" reside in are repressive, chauvinistic, backward, impoverished, uneducated, intolerant etc. A disgrace to Islam & Muslims around the world. I'm not talking about Muslim nations using political Islam, but even inside Western non-Muslim majority countries, we find the same phenomena.

 

[soldierofallah]

No need for america to stop it. Someday it will run out of oil and it will grind to a halt. Inshallah.

Hahaha really, than why didnt it halt 100s of years ago when oil wasnt discoverd and not every muslim country has oil. keep dreamin american ur soo called superpower country aint gonna survive another 15/20 years with the wars going on n the war with iran is gonna be ur end foool. ur coward soldiers r ******* in afghanistan. long live the mujahideen of afghanistan.