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Revised Data of Import of only goods stand at August 2021 is 6.5 billion dollar, Deficit is at 4.3 billion dollar and CAD will above June 2021 numebrs

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150% agree with you

but our export's are growing at a pretty good rate (for the situation we are in) - this exactly what Pak is focusing on rn

but our imports are also growing and rapidly at that (due to rise in prices around the globe)

this catch 101 is something we are struggling with rn

This is a very valid argument.

1) The international inflationary commodity cycle has inflated our imports by a lot. We are in many cases importing same quantities but at a much higher price.

2) I will post both June ( which is comparable to August figure) and July the month before August for people here to clear the misconception / confusion.







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There is nothing much you can do apart from waiting for this commodity cycle to end, which is predicted to ease out by the end of this Cyclic year.

TERF is definately rolled out. August rollout will be higher.

Points to keep in mind.
1) CBU ( completely built unit) is just around $50m and is already taxed to the hilt.
CKD ( completely knocked down) constitutes major portion and its increase/decrease correlated with our domestic auto industry.

2) Mobile phones for the first time our domestic production ( assembly) is more than our import that 2 by a factor of 2/3. Already an industry which is taxed and can not handle more.

Now what are your suggestions we should cur down from the list?

@CriticalThought @Norwegian @Desprado @Sainthood 101 @hydrabadi_arab and other respected members feel free to give your opinion. Keep it apolitical and to the context, avoid trolling.
 
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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
If you think people will vote for Zardari, Altaf, or Nawaz. Then you are living in fools land. Soon local body election will be held and you will see yourself.:coffee:
The anger on the street is palpable. People don't vote for Nawaz, etc. They vote for anyone who could give them relief. Good intentions, as I said, do not win elections; elevating people's standard of living does. People remember the last government because it kept inflation under control. They do not care how it managed to do so (by keeping the PKR overvalued), but they know it did. They would usher it back to power in the event of a fair election. Local bodies elections are not the same as national-level elections. Local governments could not give relief to the masses like a central/provincial government could by reining in inflation.
 
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People remember the last government because it kept inflation under control. They do not care how it managed to do so (by keeping the PKR overvalued), but they know it did. They would usher it back to power in the event of a fair election.
So you say this govt must follow previous govts bad policies that nearly bankrupted the economy through overvalued exchange rate just to remain popular?
If there are fair elections, people will wipe PTI.
It's better not to have fair elections then
 
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This is a very valid argument.

1) The international inflationary commodity cycle has inflated our imports by a lot. We are in many cases importing same quantities but at a much higher price.

2) I will post both June ( which is comparable to August figure) and July the month before August for people here to clear the misconception / confusion.







View attachment 775890View attachment 775891


There is nothing much you can do apart from waiting for this commodity cycle to end, which is predicted to ease out by the end of this Cyclic year.

TERF is definately rolled out. August rollout will be higher.

Points to keep in mind.
1) CBU ( completely built unit) is just around $50m and is already taxed to the hilt.
CKD ( completely knocked down) constitutes major portion and its increase/decrease correlated with our domestic auto industry.

2) Mobile phones for the first time our domestic production ( assembly) is more than our import that 2 by a factor of 2/3. Already an industry which is taxed and can not handle more.

Now what are your suggestions we should cur down from the list?

@CriticalThought @Norwegian @Desprado @Sainthood 101 @hydrabadi_arab and other respected members feel free to give your opinion. Keep it apolitical and to the context, avoid trolling.
I have been following this topic for long. I didn't get what went wrong so suddenly??? speaking off solutions..
1. final use imports should be heavily taxed.e.g. cars, cosmetics.... the products which are further treated and exported should be exempted from import duties.
2. Exemption on import duties should be given to those items only who assures export of 3 times the import value.
3. Need to seriously look at CKD... the products final price and the value chain, value added in the country. the final prize should be atleast 3 times the imported CKD cost
4. Attracting FDI must be the top priority, and by FDI I mean real FDI... no bank loan or grant or no aid.... preferably from any country other than China...
5. Heavy investment in Infrastructure projects that will help you and not china.... like the ghost town... srilankan port and airport.... industry targeted infrastructure that will help industry grow and creat jobs..... export oriented industries SEZ's and parks..... and please for gods sake please keep china out of it.....
 
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So you say this govt must follow previous govts bad policies that nearly bankrupted the economy through overvalued exchange rate just to remain popular?

It's better not to have fair elections then
I am stating how people think. They need instant gratification. A low level of economic literacy (alongside general literacy) has ensured that the public does not understand economics. It does not understand that the way it is provided with relief could bankrupt the country and create greater economic hardship in the long term. This was the point I was making.

And any impartial individual could see that the mood on the street is not in favor of PTI. Even most of the people who voted for the party to give it a chance are regretting the choice they made. I am not simping for any political party. Just stating how the public in Pakistan thinks.

Not having fair elections is itself problematic.
 
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This is a very valid argument.

1) The international inflationary commodity cycle has inflated our imports by a lot. We are in many cases importing same quantities but at a much higher price.

2) I will post both June ( which is comparable to August figure) and July the month before August for people here to clear the misconception / confusion.







View attachment 775890View attachment 775891


There is nothing much you can do apart from waiting for this commodity cycle to end, which is predicted to ease out by the end of this Cyclic year.

TERF is definately rolled out. August rollout will be higher.

Points to keep in mind.
1) CBU ( completely built unit) is just around $50m and is already taxed to the hilt.
CKD ( completely knocked down) constitutes major portion and its increase/decrease correlated with our domestic auto industry.

2) Mobile phones for the first time our domestic production ( assembly) is more than our import that 2 by a factor of 2/3. Already an industry which is taxed and can not handle more.

Now what are your suggestions we should cur down from the list?

@CriticalThought @Norwegian @Desprado @Sainthood 101 @hydrabadi_arab and other respected members feel free to give your opinion. Keep it apolitical and to the context, avoid trolling.
Actually, this is not new. Our imports would always grow briskly whenever there are growth spurts because we have a weak manufacturing base. Import substitution has not been really given preference in the past. This government is making the right noises. However, the results of any concerted effort would be yielded after years. For import substitution to take place, capital in private hands has to be invested in domestic manufacturing. In an economy where speculation is rewarded, and real wealth creation faces hurdles at each step, it is difficult for capital to move in this direction. Secondly, the assertion that exports are growing briskly is not correct. While there is undoubtedly a growth in exports, it must be seen at what expense it takes. We are keeping interest rates fixed at low levels for a year, and import duties are reduced or eliminated in some cases (resulting in swelling of raw material imports), fixed power tariffs for the export sector, state bank's TERF for exporters. Despite throwing all these goodies at the exporters, the pace of import growth far outstrips anything exporters have managed to showcase in the name of results.

The point by @Sainthood 101 about high global commodity prices is well received. However, we must note that many food imports we are making today were not done in the past. Continual neglect of agriculture has brought us to this point. This is a problem that has been in the making for decades now. Even the current budget for all its talk expended too little on agriculture. Some blame the 18th amendment for the decentralization in the agriculture sector policy making.

Another cause of concern is waiting for outsiders to assist us in breaking vicious cycles. For industrial development and agriculture sector reforms (improving crop yields, pest-resistant varieties, investment in farming technologies), we keep waiting for CPEC 2.0. CPEC 2.0 was to be launched 3 years back. We have not yet seen operationalization of a single SEZ or large-scale investments in the Pakistani agriculture sector. Our economy could not wait for the materialization of projects that may or may not benefit us at some point in the future. We have to do what we have to do with the available resources to us instead of waiting on others.
I have been following this topic for long. I didn't get what went wrong so suddenly??? speaking off solutions..
1. final use imports should be heavily taxed.e.g. cars, cosmetics.... the products which are further treated and exported should be exempted from import duties.
2. Exemption on import duties should be given to those items only who assures export of 3 times the import value.
3. Need to seriously look at CKD... the products final price and the value chain, value added in the country. the final prize should be atleast 3 times the imported CKD cost
4. Attracting FDI must be the top priority, and by FDI I mean real FDI... no bank loan or grant or no aid.... preferably from any country other than China...
5. Heavy investment in Infrastructure projects that will help you and not china.... like the ghost town... srilankan port and airport.... industry targeted infrastructure that will help industry grow and creat jobs..... export oriented industries SEZ's and parks..... and please for gods sake please keep china out of it.....
FDI is the only deliverance. Exports could not grow as quickly as we would like them to grow to bridge deficits or at least give us some breathing space. Only FDI could bridge that gap at the earnest.
 
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Did you see the issue it means we are importing around 1.5 billion dollar cars machines and Tyre lol. That is why had massive custom duties taxes since June.


Think Pakistan is a poor countries and 122.1 billion dollar debt. Does it need 1.5 billion dollar car support growth including tyers in that amount by borrowing debt not self funded. This is cancer.


I told some guys this all due luxury suvs, cars and luxury housing stuff. PTI wants PPP style ending in 2023 and thanks to Shaukat Tarin.

Import led growth could have been done better by PPP or PMLN if it had to be this much growth depend on imports only.
 
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Did you see the issue it means we are importing around 1.5 billion dollar cars machines and Tyre lol. That is why had massive custom duties taxes since June.


Think Pakistan is a poor countries and 122.1 billion dollar debt. Does it need 1.5 billion dollar car support growth including tyers in that amount by borrowing debt not self funded. This is cancer.


I told some guys this all due luxury suvs, cars and luxury housing stuff. PTI wants PPP style ending in 2023 and thanks to Shaukat Tarin.

Import led growth could have been done better by PPP or PMLN if it had to be this much growth depend on imports only.
yep and we were smuggling it before and now due to tech etc now we are doing it officially (so the increase in FBR taxes is just duties of items we used to smuggle before but now we are doing it officially- this is putting pressure on our import bill)

So the way I see this import bill is

A- Increasing prices around the globe (he is saying our crops are doing good, we'll be fine in the meduim run)
B- Smuggled items are going through official routes
C- Capital inputs as in machinery, industrial etc

We should stop these imports of luxury items that we used to smuggle before?- I am not saying its a totally bad idea for the time being at least

He is saying sab changa si, but personally I think next 2-3 months are very important

but FDI is SO crucial for Pakistan!, we need to make some changes in BOI etc, without FDI it'll be hard to achieve sustainable growth

@Patriot forever , @Norwegian , @Pak Nationalist , @hydrabadi_arab

read through his tweets if you can (FYI he is on the biased side)
 
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yep and we were smuggling it before and now due to tech etc now we are doing it officially (so the increase in FBR taxes is just duties of items we used to smuggle before but now we are doing it officially- this is putting pressure on our import bill)

So the way I see this import bill is

A- Increasing prices around the globe (he is saying our crops are doing good, we'll be fine in the meduim run)
B- Smuggled items are going through official routes
C- Capital inputs as in machinery, industrial etc

We should stop these imports of luxury items that we used to smuggle before?- I am not saying its a totally bad idea for the time being at least

He is saying sab changa si, but personally I think next 2-3 months are very important

but FDI is SO crucial for Pakistan!, we need to make some changes in BOI etc, without FDI it'll be hard to achieve sustainable growth
This guy more educated and credible than this Muzzammil.

yep and we were smuggling it before and now due to tech etc now we are doing it officially (so the increase in FBR taxes is just duties of items we used to smuggle before but now we are doing it officially- this is putting pressure on our import bill)

So the way I see this import bill is

A- Increasing prices around the globe (he is saying our crops are doing good, we'll be fine in the meduim run)
B- Smuggled items are going through official routes
C- Capital inputs as in machinery, industrial etc

We should stop these imports of luxury items that we used to smuggle before?- I am not saying its a totally bad idea for the time being at least

He is saying sab changa si, but personally I think next 2-3 months are very important

but FDI is SO crucial for Pakistan!, we need to make some changes in BOI etc, without FDI it'll be hard to achieve sustainable growth

@Patriot forever , @Norwegian , @Pak Nationalist , @hydrabadi_arab

read through his tweets if you can (FYI he is on the biased side)
 
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Actually, this is not new. Our imports would always grow briskly whenever there are growth spurts because we have a weak manufacturing base. Import substitution has not been really given preference in the past. This government is making the right noises. However, the results of any concerted effort would be yielded after years. For import substitution to take place, capital in private hands has to be invested in domestic manufacturing. In an economy where speculation is rewarded, and real wealth creation faces hurdles at each step, it is difficult for capital to move in this direction. Secondly, the assertion that exports are growing briskly is not correct. While there is undoubtedly a growth in exports, it must be seen at what expense it takes. We are keeping interest rates fixed at low levels for a year, and import duties are reduced or eliminated in some cases (resulting in swelling of raw material imports), fixed power tariffs for the export sector, state bank's TERF for exporters. Despite throwing all these goodies at the exporters, the pace of import growth far outstrips anything exporters have managed to showcase in the name of results.

The point by @Sainthood 101 about high global commodity prices is well received. However, we must note that many food imports we are making today were not done in the past. Continual neglect of agriculture has brought us to this point. This is a problem that has been in the making for decades now. Even the current budget for all its talk expended too little on agriculture. Some blame the 18th amendment for the decentralization in the agriculture sector policy making.

Another cause of concern is waiting for outsiders to assist us in breaking vicious cycles. For industrial development and agriculture sector reforms (improving crop yields, pest-resistant varieties, investment in farming technologies), we keep waiting for CPEC 2.0. CPEC 2.0 was to be launched 3 years back. We have not yet seen operationalization of a single SEZ or large-scale investments in the Pakistani agriculture sector. Our economy could not wait for the materialization of projects that may or may not benefit us at some point in the future. We have to do what we have to do with the available resources to us instead of waiting on others.

FDI is the only deliverance. Exports could not grow as quickly as we would like them to grow to bridge deficits or at least give us some breathing space. Only FDI could bridge that gap at the earnest.

An excellent post . On point.

I would like to add a few more points, and continue the conversation.

1) The entire structural problem of our economy is linked to bad/political policy decisions such as currency manipulation and bad FDI decisions too . We have especially in the last tenure amplified these problems, we developed an entrenched ecosystem based on imports, and actively prevented not only import substitution but also suffocated our export industries.

1630957993146.png


Right kind of balanced sustainable growth as compared to our growth. Both countries imports increased over the period but one lagged behind in exports. This left us with no means to sustain the growth without exacerbating the BoP crisis.

2) Exports never take a huge leap in a limited amount of time as compared to imports, its basically productivity capacity enhancement vs accelerating consumption debate. To increase export one needs capacity enhancement coupled with competitiveness against others ( REER value of currency) and effective marketing/ penetration.

3)
Right kind of FDI is very important. Not every FDI is healthy.
Low interest loan is better than fixed return sovereign guaranteed FDI any day.


How to address this problem at basic policy level ( which the government is doing)

1) Facilitate capacity building such as Terf.
2) Improve competitiveness that is free market based currency ( REER value).
3) Attract right kind of FDI, CPEC industrial parks etc.
Along with other facilitations like you mentioned.
Making raw materials more expensive by duties/taxes is a big NO NO.

The government made a plan to stimulate growth, capacity building at the same time and setup a target to contain CAD at 2-3%. Use the currency tool to absord the impact of CAD (it has its limits but currently is being used in an exceptional way) , build reserves.

The catch-22 situation we are in is because we got caught in the international commodity inflation cycle, which was expected to ease out but in reality is not going to happen at least for the next 3-4 months. This coupled with Terf rollout, keeping growth momentum intact like low interest rate, and exempting tariff lines on raw materials becomes hard to handle.

This analysis is based on just August data only, in July we managed CAD in targeted range. Only a detailed breakdown of imports in August will tell the story. Also it will depend on the coming months at least a couple of months of data if this is a trend or an isolated month.

Using currency alone and without any SBP intervention will risk inflation. Inflation in August is stable at 8.35% . Rupee is at 169.9 I think as of today. Reserves are intact. Growth will be good. Revenue collection is extraordinary. There is no demand side pressure so economy has room to handle growth coupled with inflation at 8.35%, interest rates will be kept intact ( my expectation).

Unless some parameters deteriorate to an extent policy can be sustained.
 
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1st tweet.
No he is not, muzammil aslam is a market guy not a desk economist and far more accurate. ( Wether you like it or not we grew by 4.2% to 4.6% in FY 2021 and he is one of the only couple of people who saw it).

I do not completely agree with the tweet you posted neither will I dismiss it completely. Let the breakdown of August imports come in and wait for a couple of months.

We probably have a couple of hundred million $ worth of vaccines in it as well. Who knows.

Now coming to the tweet you posted. He compared ST to Ishaq Dar 😂. The chances of us getting in such situation is minimal. SBP will start using other tools at its disposal before we even come close to that point. Now some differences which makes things different.

1) Was the currency market based back than or fixed. It makes huge difference. ( At what pace we're the reserves falling at that time and what is the current standing of our reserves? ) What was the level of market intervention.
2) There was no global inflationary commodity cycle at that time. Everything from Soya bean to palm oil to steel and scraps to LNG to coal to raw materials were almost 35- 75% cheaper depending on the product. Crude was less.

EU and US inflation rates are decade high, India I think is almost 6%. All these countries are grappling with global inflation. They are not as global commodity inflation sensitive as we are by a margin, yet the impact is very evident.


2nd tweet.

There is still room in the economy. He is a good journalist but he is being over cautious.

The benchmark he is using is government credit and overall credit.

SBP just last week I think said economy still has room.

The inflation figures for September will be lower than August, 7-7.5% estimate by ismail securities. If that happen interest rate hike is highly unlikely.
 
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