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Rethink impractical projects, Jaishankar tells Bangladesh FM Momen

I agree with that. Bangladesh will suffer because in every infra projects there are massive corruption because of our ruling party.
Corruption is always present in our country. But, a project must be evaluated on its merits and demerits. Like, a few weeks ago, the GoB discarded a bullet train project with a foreign loan.

It is the same with the Padma Bridge or Rooppur. Infrastructures take a very long time to pay back the investment. I am from Faridpur and know how many vehicles cross the river in Aricha and Mawa points at present, if not exact.

Even if you triple the number to say 3,000 vehicles a day with a ticket of 1,000 Taka, you cannot get more than Tk. 3 million or $36,000 per day which is only $13.14 million a year.

If $3,000 million was spent, you will need 228 years to recover the principal alone. I have not considered other expenses like manpower needed for maintenance and others which will eat away about 30% of the proceeds.

I am giving you hard facts. Now, if I am wrong, please tell me where am I wrong in my rough estimate instead of showing nationalistic false pride.

I am all ears to hear your own estimates. I request others also to prove the feasibility of the Padma Bridge on economic terms. But, those must be based on valid accounting.
 
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Momen miya is a loose cannon :p:

There are reasons why @bluesky bhai calls him "Alga" (loose) Momen.

His Toupee is as loose as his mouth. Both are competing in upping each other in looseness.

In this case though, he clearly meant to get his mouth flapping and slip a fast one to Mr. Jaishankar and his taskmaster Modi concerning the real situation about India's role in Bangladesh vis-à-vis China as far as loans. India has no business competing with China. I am sorry - it neither has the planning, nor technical chops. At this time - that is.

I give Momen Kudos and you can see Jaishankar's "riposte" and retort....at being faced with the inconvenient truth. My apologies to sane and intelligent Indians.
 
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China offers not only 'basket of money' but also 'affordable' proposals: FM

ECONOMY

UNB
20 February, 2022, 03:40 pm
Last modified: 21 February, 2022, 04:00 pm



Dr Momen said Bangladesh is doing “pretty well” in terms of economic development​

Foreign Minister Dr AK Abdul Momen. Picture: File Photo
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Foreign Minister Dr AK Abdul Momen. Picture: File Photo

Foreign Minister Dr AK Abdul Momen. Picture: File Photo

Foreign Minister Dr AK Abdul Momen has said China has come forward with a "basket of money" along with "aggressive and affordable" proposals amid Bangladesh's growing infrastructure needs when help from many countries is "declining".
However, Indian External Affairs Minister Dr Subrahmanyam Jaishankar laid emphasis on making an "informed decision" and cited the problems that they have seen in some countries in the region.
The Foreign Ministers of Bangladesh and India came up with their own views during a panel discussion titled "A Sea Change: Regional Order and Security in the Indo-Pacific" on the second day (Saturday) of the Munich Security Conference 2022.
Corruption is always present in our country. But, a project must be evaluated on its merits and demerits. Like, a few weeks ago, the GoB discarded a bullet train project with a foreign loan.

It is the same with the Padma Bridge or Rooppur. Infrastructures take a very long time to pay back the investment. I am from Faridpur and know how many vehicles cross the river in Aricha and Mawa points at present, if not exact.

Even if you triple the number to say 3,000 vehicles a day with a ticket of 1,000 Taka, you cannot get more than Tk. 3 million or $36,000 per day which is only $13.14 million a year.

If $3,000 million was spent, you will need 228 years to recover the principal alone. I have not considered other expenses like manpower needed for maintenance and others which will eat away about 30% of the proceeds.

I am giving you hard facts. Now, if I am wrong, please tell me where am I wrong in my rough estimate instead of showing nationalistic false pride.

I am all ears to hear your own estimates. I request others also to prove the feasibility of the Padma Bridge on economic terms. But, those must be based on valid accounting.

If you don't know about any topic please do not comment.

This is ADB projection of vehicle at Padma bridge:

The ADB study stated that the 24,000 vehicles to cross the bridge in 2022 will include 8,238 buses, 10,244 trucks and 5000 microbuses and cars. It also said that by 2025, the number of vehicles crossing Padma bridge will be 27,800 per day. By 2030 this will go up to 36,785. In 2040, the number of vehicles crossing the bridge daily will be 51,807.

In 2050, around 67,000 vehicles could cross the bridge daily.


This is the toll rate:

The toll amount for different types of vehicles would be; for bus Tk 2,379, mini truck (five ton) Tk 1620, medium truck (eight-ton) Tk 2100, big truck (more than eight-ton) Tk 2775.


I can tell you within 20 years or even much earlier construction cost will be recovered.

Plus you are not counting the benefit of the short distance and connectivity between southern region and Dhaka it will provide.

Regarding Rooppur Nuclear Power plant it was a necessity. This article summarizes why the cost went high. That explains BAEC negotiated in unusual hurry, without hiring any independent consultant and without taking any assistance from the local experts who have the experience of similar negotiations.

BAEC decided to buy two VVER-1200 reactors but its price tag of USD 5,500/kWe where as same power plant by same company in India costing USD 3,000/kWe. In Bangladesh it should not be more than USD 4,000/kWe.

There were scope of saving 3.6 billion USD. Thats the part which is actually wasted.

 
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Rethink impractical projects, Jaishankar tells Bangladesh FM​

Suhasini Haidar
NEW DELHIFEBRUARY 20, 2022 18:04 IST
UPDATED: FEBRUARY 21, 2022 00:34 IST

View attachment 817183
Foreign Minister S. Jaishankar speaks during the annual Munich Security Conference, in Munich, Germany February 19, 2022. | Photo Credit: Reuters

Abdul Momen had asked whether Quad can offer same kind of financial aid as China​


Countries seeking loans should worry about unsustainable infrastructure projects like airports and ports that are empty, said External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar, in a sharp riposte to Bangladesh Foreign Minister AK Abdul Momen, who asked about whether the Quad countries can offer the same kind of financial assistance that China does.

In an exchange at the Munich Security Conference on Saturday, Mr. Jaishankar also said India’s ties with China are right now going through a “difficult phase” adding that the state of the relationship stems from “the state of the border”, and China’s transgressions along the Line of Actual Control since April 2020.

“We have seen now countries including in our region being saddled with large debts. We have seen projects which are commercially unsustainable: airports where an aircraft doesn’t come, harbours where a ship doesn’t come,” Mr. Jaishankar told a panel about the future of the Indo-Pacific, in comments that appeared to indicate the debt situation in Sri Lanka, where there have been concerns over the Hambantota port and the Mattala airport, both originally developed with Chinese loans, which Sri Lanka struggled to pay back, eventually having to hand over the port on a 99-year old lease to a Chinese company.

“It’s obviously in the interest of the consumer country concerned, but it’s also in the interest of the international community because unsustainable projects don’t end there. Often the next is, debt becomes equity, and that becomes something else,” he said, in a further illustration of the problem Sri Lanka faced.

Significantly, the question of infrastructure financing was raised by the Foreign Minister of Bangladesh, who was in the audience of the panel discussion where Mr. Jaishankar shared the stage with the Foreign Ministers of France, Australia and Japan, as well as senior U.S. Senator Jeanne Shaheen.

Mr. Momen said while India had offered Lines of Credit and Japan had also helped with infrastructure financing, incoming loans had been “declining”, and it was China that had “come forward with a basket of money and aggressive, affordable proposals”.

Mr. Momen said it was hard to decide what to do, given that with the development in Bangladesh, people are demanding more infrastructure.

“We need more funding from our development partners, and that unfortunately comes with lot of strings attached and that becomes very difficult. Today, our largest loans are from the World Bank and the IMF and the ADB, but also, we are trying to get some funding from others because the need for development process is very high. Is there an easy way out?” Mr. Momen asked the panel.

While the Quad grouping has made providing sustainable, alternative financing a goal, it has not yet created a concrete mechanism to do so. The U.S. has floated the “Blue Dot network” proposal to grade various development projects on sustainability and transparency in financing options, and India and Japan have committed to work jointly on projects in South Asia.

Asked about India’s relations with China, Mr. Jaishankar repeated his contention that the situation at the LAC had come up due to China’s actions in 2020.

“The state of the border will determine the state of the relationship, that’s natural,” he said adding that as a result, “obviously relations with China right now are going through a very difficult phase”.

Asked whether the Quad had come up as a result of the tensions with China, Mr. Jaishankar pointed out that the Quadrilateral grouping from 2007 had been revived in 2017, long before tensions with China broke out in 2020, nor is it a security structure like the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation.

“I would urge you not to slip into that lazy analogy of [calling the Quad] an Asian-NATO. It isn’t because there are three countries [U.S., Japan and Australia] who are treaty allies. We are not a treaty ally,” Mr. Jaishankar said.


Sigh… its like trying to tell someone that night is day and day is night. You cant make up something so clunsy.

Corruption is always present in our country. But, a project must be evaluated on its merits and demerits. Like, a few weeks ago, the GoB discarded a bullet train project with a foreign loan.

It is the same with the Padma Bridge or Rooppur. Infrastructures take a very long time to pay back the investment. I am from Faridpur and know how many vehicles cross the river in Aricha and Mawa points at present, if not exact.

Even if you triple the number to say 3,000 vehicles a day with a ticket of 1,000 Taka, you cannot get more than Tk. 3 million or $36,000 per day which is only $13.14 million a year.

If $3,000 million was spent, you will need 228 years to recover the principal alone. I have not considered other expenses like manpower needed for maintenance and others which will eat away about 30% of the proceeds.

I am giving you hard facts. Now, if I am wrong, please tell me where am I wrong in my rough estimate instead of showing nationalistic false pride.

I am all ears to hear your own estimates. I request others also to prove the feasibility of the Padma Bridge on economic terms. But, those must be based on valid accounting.

You are not taking into consideration that infrastructure is there to make other economic activities grow.

Project may loose money in the beginning but will be profitable for the society as a whole.

Bangladesh should build a bullet train between Dhaka and Chitagong. Not because it will be profitablee but because it will be a landmark achievement. An achievment that leads bangladeshis to think that anything can be possible in BD.

The passenger traffic will increase when BNP increases and more people have well paying jobs and the country is industrialized.
 
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There are reasons why @bluesky bhai calls him "Alga" (loose) Momen.

His Toupee is as loose as his mouth. Both are competing in upping each other in looseness.

In this case though, he clearly meant to get his mouth flapping and slip a fast one to Mr. Jaishankar and his taskmaster Modi concerning the real situation about India's role in Bangladesh vis-à-vis China as far as loans. India has no business competing with China. I am sorry - it neither has the planning, nor technical chops. At this time - that is.

I give Momen Kudos and you can see Jaishankar's "riposte" and retort....at being faced with the inconvenient truth. My apologies to sane and intelligent Indians.
No, Jaishankar is a sycophant and a poodle and deserves it.

If anyone here has friends or even acquaintances among Indian bureaucrats and government servants, just check (discreetly) if they are getting their pay on time. (Spoiler alert......)
 
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I am in full agreement with the statement above made by Indian FM S. Jaishanker. The GoB is getting loans from many financial institutes and China and Japan to build many infrastructures many of which are unsustainable in the short, medium, and long terms.

An infrastructure, even if tolls are collected, may not pay back the investment money even in 50 or 100 years. I can cite Padma Bridge and Rooppur atomic power plants that will be unsustainable.

These two are very expensive and are not sustainable. Instead, ferries should have been used to transport people and vehicles, and normal coal-fired or diesel power plants should have been built instead of the very expensive two atomic power plants in Rooppur.

BD will suffer in the long run to repay the money.

Even though the govt claims the Padma bridge is being built with local money, it is a meaningless assertion. When the govt builds this unnecessary project with big money, it has to borrow more money for other projects.

Dhaka Metropolitan railway project is certainly a sustainable project. The passengers will buy tickets with money. Therefore, the investment money will be recovered. Moreover, Metrorail is needed. But the Padma Bridge money will not be recovered because very few transports will use it.
You seem to be in full agreement with india on everything.
 
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You seem to be in full agreement with india on everything.
You are wrong. I am giving my analysis on the unsustainability on the Padma Bridge and Rooppur atomic plant.

So, please, if you find anything wrong with my analysis, please tell it and let others judge your opinion, but, come with a logic based on engineering values/ analysis and not soothsaying.
 
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Rethink impractical projects, Jaishankar tells Bangladesh FM​

Suhasini Haidar
NEW DELHIFEBRUARY 20, 2022 18:04 IST
UPDATED: FEBRUARY 21, 2022 00:34 IST

Watch till the end
:omghaha:
:rofl:



View attachment 817183
Foreign Minister S. Jaishankar speaks during the annual Munich Security Conference, in Munich, Germany February 19, 2022. | Photo Credit: Reuters

Abdul Momen had asked whether Quad can offer same kind of financial aid as China​


Countries seeking loans should worry about unsustainable infrastructure projects like airports and ports that are empty, said External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar, in a sharp riposte to Bangladesh Foreign Minister AK Abdul Momen, who asked about whether the Quad countries can offer the same kind of financial assistance that China does.

In an exchange at the Munich Security Conference on Saturday, Mr. Jaishankar also said India’s ties with China are right now going through a “difficult phase” adding that the state of the relationship stems from “the state of the border”, and China’s transgressions along the Line of Actual Control since April 2020.

“We have seen now countries including in our region being saddled with large debts. We have seen projects which are commercially unsustainable: airports where an aircraft doesn’t come, harbours where a ship doesn’t come,” Mr. Jaishankar told a panel about the future of the Indo-Pacific, in comments that appeared to indicate the debt situation in Sri Lanka, where there have been concerns over the Hambantota port and the Mattala airport, both originally developed with Chinese loans, which Sri Lanka struggled to pay back, eventually having to hand over the port on a 99-year old lease to a Chinese company.

“It’s obviously in the interest of the consumer country concerned, but it’s also in the interest of the international community because unsustainable projects don’t end there. Often the next is, debt becomes equity, and that becomes something else,” he said, in a further illustration of the problem Sri Lanka faced.

Significantly, the question of infrastructure financing was raised by the Foreign Minister of Bangladesh, who was in the audience of the panel discussion where Mr. Jaishankar shared the stage with the Foreign Ministers of France, Australia and Japan, as well as senior U.S. Senator Jeanne Shaheen.

Mr. Momen said while India had offered Lines of Credit and Japan had also helped with infrastructure financing, incoming loans had been “declining”, and it was China that had “come forward with a basket of money and aggressive, affordable proposals”.

Mr. Momen said it was hard to decide what to do, given that with the development in Bangladesh, people are demanding more infrastructure.

“We need more funding from our development partners, and that unfortunately comes with lot of strings attached and that becomes very difficult. Today, our largest loans are from the World Bank and the IMF and the ADB, but also, we are trying to get some funding from others because the need for development process is very high. Is there an easy way out?” Mr. Momen asked the panel.

While the Quad grouping has made providing sustainable, alternative financing a goal, it has not yet created a concrete mechanism to do so. The U.S. has floated the “Blue Dot network” proposal to grade various development projects on sustainability and transparency in financing options, and India and Japan have committed to work jointly on projects in South Asia.

Asked about India’s relations with China, Mr. Jaishankar repeated his contention that the situation at the LAC had come up due to China’s actions in 2020.

“The state of the border will determine the state of the relationship, that’s natural,” he said adding that as a result, “obviously relations with China right now are going through a very difficult phase”.

Asked whether the Quad had come up as a result of the tensions with China, Mr. Jaishankar pointed out that the Quadrilateral grouping from 2007 had been revived in 2017, long before tensions with China broke out in 2020, nor is it a security structure like the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation.

“I would urge you not to slip into that lazy analogy of [calling the Quad] an Asian-NATO. It isn’t because there are three countries [U.S., Japan and Australia] who are treaty allies. We are not a treaty ally,” Mr. Jaishankar said.


Lecturing other countries on how they should develop is the height of arrogance, this is just astounding.
 
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Lecturing other countries on how they should develop is the height of arrogance, this is just astounding.

I was really taken aback by that arrogance as well.

Just wow.

But at the same time I am pleased at this public blatant disrespect for all to see.

I hope these fookin muppets in the Bangladeshi government grow some balls and realize in what an insulting manner India views Bangladesh and acts accordingly.
 
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Why is his English so poor? Can't even form coherent sentences.

Izzat lost ...took like ten minutes to communicate two minutes' worth. Embarrassing.

He reminds me of an uncle commenting on politics at a dinner party.
 
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I was really taken aback by that arrogance as well.

Just wow.

But at the same time I am pleased at this public blatant disrespect for all to see.

I hope these fookin muppets in the Bangladeshi government grow some balls and realize in what an insulting manner India views Bangladesh and acts accordingly.

Did you see Jaishankar's dismissive comment like Momen was a child asking for gifts?

Who was the lady that spoke before Jaishankar did?
 
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Such comments are inappropriate on a public forum

Former ambassador M Humayun Kabir explains how sovereign countries should respect one another and much more; in regards to Indian Minister of External Affairs Subrahmanyam Jaishankar’s latest comments on Bangladesh​

Such comments are inappropriate on a public forum


Friendly nations can certainly comment on the affairs of another country, however, it is better to make such observations quietly. I think discussions such as these, in public forums, do not necessarily look good. It could be considered a negative reflection on our judgment.

I think, as a dignified nation, we should be allowed to decide on our things. I believe that we are mature and competent enough to understand our needs, priorities and obligations about who or what kind of support we need.

We have our own financial accounting system and we make decisions on loans and other financial assistance on the basis of our own analysis and calculations. Based on that, we assess from whom we will take the support.

Till now, we have not seen any hint of a debt trap from the point of view of financial management.

Such comments on other nations are best done discreetly. You do not say many things directly and there are ways to describe these things. There is a certain kind of language you use in these circumstances. We should all be respectful in advising someone, especially on a public forum.

Furthermore, the comparison between Bangladesh and Sri Lanka is inappropriate. Jaishankar may have spoken from the point of view that both countries are developing infrastructure. However, I think it is not a good thing to compare one country to another because every country is independent and every country takes its decision independently.

sfsdfsd.jpg


Let us not mix up one issue with the other. If we look at Sri Lanka economically, our foreign reserve is much higher than that of Sri Lanka.

However, I don't think there is diplomatic tension between Bangladesh and India with regard to China. India has a particular focus on China. Our view is different and we have a large engagement with China.

Ironically, India also has a large engagement with China. India has 10 times larger trade engagement with China. Although India says these things as political rhetoric, their trade relations are extensive. There is a certain kind of duality in this. We just have a different way of looking at China.

We maintain a relationship with China on the basis of our priorities. On the other hand, India maintains its relationships based on their own priorities. We have different ways of looking at China.


M Humayun Kabir is a Bangladeshi diplomat and former ambassador of Bangladesh to the United States.
 
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Did you see Jaishankar's dismissive comment like Momen was a child asking for gifts?

Who was the lady that spoke before Jaishankar did?

Never mind - I found out. It's Jeanne Shaheen, that Democrat in name only (DINO) Senator from New Hampshire. Same as the rest of the New England fake democrat scumbags. pushing elitist "whites only" preservation of status quo agendas.

It was clear from her comments that she did not care about being confronted with the fact that entire quad (including US) cannot match China's "bags of money and aggressive affordable infrastructure projects". This was the reason Shaheen and Jaishankar were uncomfortably squirming in their seats and pooh-pooh'ing Momen and Bangladesh' narratives with nervous laughs...

Reality friggin' bites you Quad idiots....

If Jaishankar does not face some flak for this f*ckup, then India-Bangladesh ties rightfully deserve to get cooler....
 
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