Rethink Afghanistan: Afghans are also protesting American air strikes!

[roadrunner]

Pashtuns are not a majority in Afghanistan?

They're almost double the next group. And that's without the millions who had to seek refuge due to war.

Very poor argument. Noone will believe your line that Pashtuns are not a majority in Afghanistan.

As for Pakistan versus Afghanistan. Pakistan is not Afghanistan, the same rules cannot be applied. The rules will change in Afghanistan also but until they do, you cannot compare two different countries each at their own stage of development.

 

[Ahmad]

Pashtuns are not a majority in Afghanistan?

They're almost double the next group. And that's without the millions who had to seek refuge due to war.

Very poor argument. Noone will believe your line that Pashtuns are not a majority in Afghanistan.

As for Pakistan versus Afghanistan. Pakistan is not Afghanistan, the same rules cannot be applied. The rules will change in Afghanistan also but until they do, you cannot compare two different countries each at their own stage of development.

off course they are not majority, they are the largest group. and who will believe you? since you see the pashtuns as your proxy that doestn make them majority, even if they are majoiryt which they are not, the rights of other citizens must be protected. and yes off course we can make a paralell to pakistan, if you cant see it then that is another matter.

 

[Awesome]

here you go, the minority and majority rant again from you. if we go by your logic, then let the panjabis have everything in pakistan and ignore the others. since you yourself have said that there is no real statistic to show the demography of afghanistan, how do we know who is majority and who is minority.



the same thing again, i just hope that the pashtun nationalism take even stronger root to make you sleepless at night. then you will know how the others feel.

In Pakistan there is an overwhelming sense of Pakistaniat as compared to Afghaniat in Afghanistan. This isn't meant to be said as an insult, but as advice, since ethnic nationalism has very low morality as compared to uniting for national interests.

This is also how foreigners would want you to think, since it weakens you. You know Pakistanis often hear big talk from Karzai about attacking Pakistan and we laugh it off - only because we know Afghanistan hasn't finished attacking itself, to start attacking others.

You gave the Pakistani - Punjabi example. We in Pakistan have now long developed parties that transcend beyond ethnic grounds. Biggest example is People's Party which has won highest seats in Pakistan thrice. Or how PML-Q won highest seats in Balochistan this time. The example shows that once you fight on issues, the ethnicity of the winners becomes irrelevant.

 

[DarK-LorD]

If you thought Americans slaughtered too many Pakistani civilians - wait till you see the unreported slaughter in Afghanistan

War it self is a total tragedy.So such unfortunate incidence's are bound to happen.Have you ever heard of a war which is totally clean & played to the book?
There are pros & cons for every situation & pros far outweigh cons in this situation.

NATO/ISAF have already several steps to minimize civilian casualties like reducing air strikes in areas with high population density.

 

[Ahmad]

to be honest with you, i dont have much to say here for you because i mostly agree with you. But still i need to say a few things in support of your post:

In Pakistan there is an overwhelming sense of Pakistaniat as compared to Afghaniat in Afghanistan. This isn't meant to be said as an insult, but as advice, since ethnic nationalism has very low morality as compared to uniting for national interests.

and off course i dont take as an insult as you are right here, as long as we dont recognize our faults we cant succede, you are right here.

This is also how foreigners would want you to think, since it weakens you. You know Pakistanis often hear big talk from Karzai about attacking Pakistan and we laugh it off - only because we know Afghanistan hasn't finished attacking itself, to start attacking others.

he has probably got the fever of Pashtunistan too, our president and all the others(who have similar ideas, you know what i mean) need to first look after Afghansitan and think of so Called and non existent pashtunistan.

You gave the Pakistani - Punjabi example. We in Pakistan have now long developed parties that transcend beyond ethnic grounds. Biggest example is People's Party which has won highest seats in Pakistan thrice. Or how PML-Q won highest seats in Balochistan this time. The example shows that once you fight on issues, the ethnicity of the winners becomes irrelevant.

you are right again, although paksitan have ethnic issues, but you are still united on national levels, best of luck and i hope we do follow pakistan in this achievement, but please give me a honest answer, what if you had ignored all your other groups and emphasized on one group to be the rightful owner of paksitan? could you have the same pakistan today in that case?

 

[Awesome]

War it self is a total tragedy.So such unfortunate incidence's are bound to happen.Have you ever heard of a war which is totally clean & played to the book?
There are pros & cons for every situation & pros far outweigh cons in this situation.

NATO/ISAF have already several steps to minimize civilian casualties like reducing air strikes in areas with high population density.

10 years is a long enough time. These aren't accidental death. If you're firing a bomb in a crowd to kill one person and 10 others die as a result of it, it doesn't mean your aim could have been better and no other would have died. These are CONFIRM kills of civilians that Nato knows about.

You think if instead of Afghans it was American civilians they would fire so recklessly?

It really baffles me, that Pakistan and Afghanistan are at almost the same junctures. Pakistan's leaders may not be, but its people are now battling American imperialism and brutality head on - where are the Afghan masses? Why aren't they talking about long marches to Bagram Air base and uprooting those invaders out of their land?

 

[roadrunner]

It really baffles me, that Pakistan and Afghanistan are at almost the same junctures. Pakistan's leaders may not be, but its people are now battling American imperialism and brutality head on - where are the Afghan masses? Why aren't they talking about long marches to Bagram Air base and uprooting those invaders out of their land?

What's baffling about it?

Afghanistan and Pakistan are at different junctures economically and security/governance/journalism.

The lack of security is the problem. People don't want to be targeted.

 

[53fd]

92% of the Afghan people didn't even know 9/11 took place, & were clueless as to why the US came into their country post 9/11.

I feel for the Afghan people: they continue to let their land being used for proxy wars by foreign powers. They unfortunately have no steel, they continue to think others can solve their problems, & then, when they suffer, they blame it on others than themselves. The Taliban, as bad as they are, are at least their own Afghan people.

 

[Awesome]

to be honest with you, i dont have much to say here for you because i mostly agree with you. But still i need to say a few things in support of your post:



and off course i dont take as an insult as you are right here, as long as we dont recognize our faults we cant succede, you are right here.

he has probably got the fever of Pashtunistan too, our president and all the others(who have similar ideas, you know what i mean) need to first look after Afghansitan and think of so Called and non existent pashtunistan.



you are right again, although paksitan have ethnic issues, but you are still united on national levels, best of luck and i hope we do follow pakistan in this achievement, but please give me a honest answer, what if you had ignored all your other groups and emphasized on one group to be the rightful owner of paksitan? could you have the same pakistan today in that case?

In the case of Pakistan, the Islamic banner helped. The fundamental notion that under Islam all are equal - sort of helped perpetuate this. Islam was a great nation building tool. Yes I know the negative sides of it as well - theocratic laws, militancy.

But it gave us a start.

With the Taliban you got a bad deal in Islam. It was born in a warzone. Try to bring back some sort of agreeable form of governance, be it Islamic (since Afghans seem to favor such a government), but it should be true some modern ideals, like democracy and freedom.

Take some baby steps.

America came in and pretended it would turn Kabul into Las Vegas and everyone would play ball.

So to answer you, no, ethnic nationalism would have doomed Pakistan - and it did break away Bangladesh due to it. You have tried Kings, warlords, Mullahocracy, Imperialism... never true democracy. People are scaring you into believing Pashtuns would come and screw it all up. Fundamentally people want to do the right thing. Circumstances get in the way.

---------- Post added at 05:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 PM ----------

What's baffling about it?

Afghanistan and Pakistan are at different junctures economically and security/governance/journalism.

The lack of security is the problem. People don't want to be targeted.

Its the age old question. Would you want to die surely but slowly or maybe but quickly?

Afghans are being slaughtered by the Americans and Taliban alike. The common people have a chance to change that by radically uniting themselves and asking for their basic rights. When was the last time there was a true people's movement in Afghanistan?

 

[gambit]

America came in and pretended it would turn Kabul into Las Vegas and everyone would play ball.

We did? Am in Vegas. My house is in the Henderson area, just ten minutes drive from the strip. No way any American would even pretend we could turn Kabul into Vegas.

 

[53fd]

When ethnic problems can even give a country like China a huge headache (Tibet, East Turkestan/Xinjiang), having authoritarian rule like China did, or what Pakistan did with a unifying factor (Islam) helps a lot, even though it comes with its own sets of problems. But it surely helps not being in the mess Afghanistan is in right now.

 

[muse]

There will be no rethink on Afghanistan, as far as the US is concerned, especially not in the reelection imperative -- The choice of Doha is most telling, at at least it should be to our arabized crowd





US ****** envoy on major Asia, Gulf tour
By AFP
Published: October 1, 2011


WASHINGTON: The US special envoy for Afghanistan and Pakistan was headed Friday on a multi-nation tour through Asia and the Gulf ahead of two major conferences on Afghanistan’s future, officials said.

Marc Grossman was on his way to Abu Dhabi, Turkey, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, China, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, India and Doha, as well as Kabul and Islamabad for consultations, the State Department said in a statement.

The trip comes ahead of a November conference in Istanbul and a December meeting in Bonn “to build support for the vision of a stable, secure and prosperous Afghanistan in a stable, secure and prosperous region,” it said.

In Doha, Grossman will address regional US ambassadors.

His trip is scheduled to last until October 14.

After the 10th anniversary of the start of the US-led operation to overthrow the Taliban in October, diplomatic focus will turn to the two international conferences on Afghanistan’s future.

“A clear and unequivocal message of long-term support to our Afghan friends is our bottom line” for a conference to be held in Bonn on December 5, Germany’s UN ambassador Peter Wittig said Thursday.

 

[53fd]

19 civilians killed in Nuristan operation: MPs

"For two days, foreign forces did not allow locals to collect the dead bodies that were eaten by animals"

By Abasin Zaheer

Afghan and foreign forces killed 19 civilians, including women and children, during an operation on Sept. 20 in eastern Nuristan province, a parliamentarian said on Wednesday.

Militants had fled the Want Waigal district before the operation was launched, a Wolesi Jirga member from the province, Maulvi Ahadullah Mowahid, told a press conference in Kabul.

Inayatullah Mazhabyar, head of the provincial council, said 19 residents, including a tribal elder, were killed while six others were detained by ISAF troops.

Mazhabyar said the mother, sister, wife and three children of a man named Ramadan were killed in a NATO-led airstrike. A member of the Nuristan High Peace Council Malak Juma Gul was also killed.

"For two days, foreign forces did not allow locals to collect the dead bodies that were eaten by animals," the legislator alleged, claiming provincial authorities were not taken into confidence over the operations.

Mowahid said a hospital and several shops in the remote district also came under attack during the offensive, he said.

Another member of the assembly from Nuristan, Hazrat Shah Nuristani, said tribal elder Juma Gul was stabbed to death and several locals were arrested by NATO-led troops. "Such actions only widen the gap between the government and the people."

Provincial council chief, Qazi Inayatullah Mazhabyar, said the district had been under the Taliban's control for the past six months but the fighters left it as a result of the operation.

"The combined force came to the district, killed innocent people and once again left Want Waigal to militants," he remarked.

But the 201 Selab Military Corps spokesman, Col. Noman Hatafi, insists there were no civilian causalities caused by Afghan-ISAF offensive.

The ISAF press office in Kabul said the alliance did not participate in the operation.

19 civilians killed in Nuristan operation: MPs « RAWA News

 

[Respect4Respect01]

nothing happened to obama and karzai or zardari,

only civilians are killed,

a man in the video wanted to sell his child because hes too poor to feed her. but look at zardari and karzais children who are fking studying in oxford,

anyone who supports this war is just inhuman.