Refurbishing---Re-conditioning---Upgrading---Older Aircraft---Reminds of Japanese reconditoned Cars

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

There is going to be a new wave of reconditioning and upgrading of older aircraft---basically 3rd generation aircraft to the standards of 4th generation aircraft----.

The aircraft has to have a certain criteria of modern design---basically an aircraft when it was manufactured was ahead of its time. You can put an F16 in the category---an F15----The Israeli Kfir----The Mirage 2K---The B52 bomber----The B1 amongst the many.

The F16's and the Mirage 2ks designed for a life span of 30-40 years---are being given a new life----with new and modified reconditioned frames---fuselage----engines and to top it all off----the electronics and weapons package. The B52 has re received a massive upgrade and possible the B1 as well.

The F16's A/B have been upgraded to the newer Blk standards-----and then the newest upgrade for the F16 the F16 V takes it to a different level. With an Aesa radar---new mission computers---a totally new electronics warfare package and the ability to launch the latest weapons----will give un-imagined strength to these older aircrafts produced some 30-40-50-60 years ago and that also at 1/4 or 1/3 the cost of a new aircraft.

The Israeli Kfir has gotten a new 35 years lease on life---the israelis are refurbishing 35 years old Kfir's for the Argentinian air force and giving them another 35 years of service with the upgrades.

So---for those who were talking about an end of life upgrade for the Mirage 2K9 maybe in for another surprise after another 10 years when there might be another upgrade available for that aircraft as well.

All these changes remind me of the Japanese re-conditioned car market for the Asian and African countries----. The Japanese used their cars for 3-4-5 years----they were then bought back and re-conditioned checked out thoroughly---spiffed up---new tires---brakes---etc etc etc and the car was ready at a reduced cost for south asia and Africa----to be enjoyed for another 10-20 years.

 

[Knight Rider]

So our OLDER F-16 A/B class aircraft can stay here forever. MLU+MLU+MLU+MLU+MLU+MLU= F-16 FOREVER

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Our Air cheif gets called to USA when we try to buy a new plane

 

[war&peace]

We should upgrade our existing fleet of F-16 to the latest level but forge ahead with Su-35, JH-7 and J-10B in addition to developing new versions of JF-17. No need to buy refurbished F-16 since, however excellent, the airframe of F-16 has limitation and the new developments from our enemy and new strategic role of PAF necessitates new platforms.
@MastanKhan why Russia is not using Su-35 in airstrikes against ISIS but Su-34, Su-27 and Mig-29?

 

[MastanKhan]

So our OLDER F-16 A/B class aircraft can stay here forever. MLU+MLU+MLU+MLU+MLU+MLU= F-16 FOREVER

Hi,

Look at it this way----we use them for 30 + years. basically that is the end of a fighter aircraft's life---but it gets another lease on life---for another 20--25 years.

Now in this 25 years---that is the second coming----its potency can be increased again by upgrades by a multitude.

Like---now you can put an aesa in it----you can have off bore sight missile launch capability---. You can attach next generation BVR missiles----.

So---you can well imagine the changes that have occurred between it being a Blk 15 to a viper ugrade.

Same with mirage 2k9----the 9 won't be the end of line if one wanted to go further----upgraded electronics package would again increase the potency of the aircraft by a multitude---.

In a 5 to 10 years time---these 4th gen aircraft would become a serious threat to the 5th gen aircraft----.

As long as the frame stays right---the aircraft can get many an upgrade and still be extremely potent and make its presence felt hard.

 

[Knight Rider]

Hi,

Look at it this way----we use them for 30 + years. basically that is the end of a fighter aircraft's life---but it gets another lease on life---for another 20--25 years.

Now in this 25 years---that is the second coming----its potency can be increased again by upgrades by a multitude.

Like---now you can put an aesa in it----you can have off bore sight missile launch capability---. You can attach next generation BVR missiles----.

So---you can well imagine the changes that have occurred between it being a Blk 15 to a viper ugrade.

Same with mirage 2k9----the 9 won't be the end of line if one wanted to go further----upgraded electronics package would again increase the potency of the aircraft by a multitude---.

In a 5 to 10 years time---these 4th gen aircraft would become a serious threat to the 5th gen aircraft----.

As long as the frame stays right---the aircraft can get many an upgrade and still be extremely potent and make its presence felt hard.

100% agreed, OLD IS GOLD ..... But we should find a replacement for our F-16 s as soon as possible . We dont want flying Coffins word labeled on our F-16s . This word is only beautiful on INDIAN!!!!!

 

[cloud4000]

We should upgrade our existing fleet of F-16 to the latest level but forge ahead with Su-35, JH-7 and J-10B in addition to developing new versions of JF-17. No need to buy refurbished F-16 since, however excellent, the airframe of F-16 has limitation and the new developments from our enemy and new strategic role of PAF necessitates new platforms.

Can't PAF F-16s be simply replaced by JF-17s?

 

[war&peace]

Can't PAF F-16s be simply replaced by JF-17s?

JF-17 is already replacing F-16 and each successive version is more capable like block 3 is equipped AESA-radar which the latest version of F-16 has. JF17 block III is slated to be inducted in 2016 while the work on next version is underway. If you read my comment carefully, I already suggested to update only the existing F-16 with the latest equipment and systems and this is inline with what already PAF is doing. JF-17 is a replacement for F-16, however PAF has a genuine need for longer range which Su-35 and JH-7 can fulfil

 

[Aamir Hussain]

JF-17 is already replacing F-16 and each successive version is more capable like block 3 is equipped AESA-radar which the latest version of F-16 has. JF17 block III is slated to be inducted in 2016 while the work on next version is underway. If you read my comment carefully, I already suggested to update only the existing F-16 with the latest equipment and systems and this is inline with what already PAF is doing. JF-17 is a replacement for F-16, however PAF has a genuine need for longer range which Su-35 and JH-7 can fulfil

IMO JFT was never envisaged as replacement for F16 but as a med. end compliment to it.

That is why squadrons that have been re-equipped with it were previously flying F-7's and Mirages and none that are flying the Falcon.

Another indicator that it is not a replacement for it is the addition of further F16's from Jordan and US recently.

 

[Kurlang]

Just heard on news that US has agreed to give 8 more f16s to Pakistan

 

[wiseone2]

Hi,

There is going to be a new wave of reconditioning and upgrading of older aircraft---basically 3rd generation aircraft to the standards of 4th generation aircraft----.

The aircraft has to have a certain criteria of modern design---basically an aircraft when it was manufactured was ahead of its time. You can put an F16 in the category---an F15----The Israeli Kfir----The Mirage 2K---The B52 bomber----The B1 amongst the many.

The F16's and the Mirage 2ks designed for a life span of 30-40 years---are being given a new life----with new and modified reconditioned frames---fuselage----engines and to top it all off----the electronics and weapons package. The B52 has re received a massive upgrade and possible the B1 as well.

The F16's A/B have been upgraded to the newer Blk standards-----and then the newest upgrade for the F16 the F16 V takes it to a different level. With an Aesa radar---new mission computers---a totally new electronics warfare package and the ability to launch the latest weapons----will give un-imagined strength to these older aircrafts produced some 30-40-50-60 years ago and that also at 1/4 or 1/3 the cost of a new aircraft.

The Israeli Kfir has gotten a new 35 years lease on life---the israelis are refurbishing 35 years old Kfir's for the Argentinian air force and giving them another 35 years of service with the upgrades.

So---for those who were talking about an end of life upgrade for the Mirage 2K9 maybe in for another surprise after another 10 years when there might be another upgrade available for that aircraft as well.

All these changes remind me of the Japanese re-conditioned car market for the Asian and African countries----. The Japanese used their cars for 3-4-5 years----they were then bought back and re-conditioned checked out thoroughly---spiffed up---new tires---brakes---etc etc etc and the car was ready at a reduced cost for south asia and Africa----to be enjoyed for another 10-20 years.

japanese cars like toyota and honda are built for durability. i do not know if modern high performance combat aircraft are built for durability. f-16 might be an exception though.

 

[MastanKhan]

japanese cars like toyota and honda are built for durability. i do not know if modern high performance combat aircraft are built for durability. f-16 might be an exception though.

Hi,

With the cost of new aircraft going up and up---the manufacturer is going to find a way to fulfill the needs of customers at the lower end of the spectrum or those who believe in ther product---.

Like Pakistan air force----they got their F16's re-furbished---like the Indian air force---they are getting their Mirage 2k's refurbished----like the Argentinian air force----they are buying re-furbished air craft---the indian air force is going to get their su30 upgraded as well---the possibility is that the USAF F15 silent eagles might also be upgraded to carry a heavier load of BVR's----.

So---the options are endless for the re-furbish---reconditioned----upgrade market---.

 

[shah1398]

Can't PAF F-16s be simply replaced by JF-17s?

Right now?Not at all as we first have to replace our older Mirages and F-7Ps with JF-17. Till then Block III JF-17 should have arrived and even then JF-17s separate squadrons have to be established as MLU and Block -52 F-16s have a long way to go in PAF. JF-17 block III is suppose to augment our F-16s and suppose to be employed along F-16s in DSCAM (Dissimilar Combat Aircraft Missions) packages.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

@shah1398 can you please elaborate on the concept of DSCAM in PAF and its use in war?

 

[Syed Hussain]

There is a limit to how far an aircraft can remain at service, the stress level faced by an aircraft's air frame can't be compared with wear & tear of cars body and then there is the engine as well and its 'singularity' in this case also widens the risk. Even the "structural upgrade kit" included in MLU upgrade is not made to further "extend" the service life of F-16 from 8000 hours BUT to enable the targeted F-16s to "complete" their 8000 hours(though PAF is known for keeping dead horses running for a little more while).