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Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

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My list:

Israel. US veto's of several dozen UN Security Council resolutions to save the Israeli government from it's own incompetence, at the expense of the USA.

We don't share the same perceptions here. If anything the relationship is reversed, with Israel undertaking numerous activities to further U.S. influence: withdrawal from territory occupied in the 1973 war, bombing Saddam's nuclear reactor, and acquiescing to a useless peace process today. You'll have to come up with a more definitive example.
 
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Kaira to replace Fauzia as PPP spokesperson , due to violated discipline. :cheers:

ISLAMABAD: Both former foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi and PPP information secretary Fauzia Wahab were not invited to a meeting of the party’s frontline leaders on Thursday.

Sources said after the meeting of the People’s Party core committee that it had been decided that Ms Wahab would be replaced by former information minister Qamar Zaman Kaira and Mr Qureshi was unlikely to be considered for a cabinet post. The recent outbursts by the two over the issue of Raymond Davis, a US national accused of killing two men in Lahore, proved their undoing.

President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani apprised the committee about their meetings with US Senator John Kerry where he was told that the case would be decided on the basis of justice and the principle of sovereign equality.

“The meeting also reiterated the position of the party and the government that the strategic partnership and mutually beneficial relations between the two countries should not be allowed to be sacrificed by making them hostage to a single incident,” the president’s spokesman Farhatullah Babar said.

The president informed the committee that he had impressed upon the chairman of the US Senate’s Foreign Relations Committee that the Davis issue had several dimensions that needed to be taken into consideration by both sides.

He said he had told Senator Kerry that there was an urgent need to proceed with caution, showing respect to the sensibilities of all concerned.


He said the matter was before a court which had already ruled that it would decide the issue of immunity for Davis.

The prime minister said he had also suggested that the US needed to take into account the ground realities and acknowledge that the principal stakeholders in the case were the families of those killed and the people of Pakistan.

“The meeting discussed in depth the political situation with particular reference to coalition politics, recent political developments and the emerging scenario,” Mr Babar said.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik gave a briefing on the law and order situation and Law Minister Babar Awan briefed the committee on current legal issues.

Although President Zardari said that the former ministers “who are not in the new cabinet are still PPP’s assets and the party requires their guidance”, sources said a recent press conference by Mr Qureshi had closed the doors on him for any cabinet slot.

According to the sources, the government had planned to provide details about the status of Davis during the hearing of the case in the court on Thursday, but the former minister’s assertion that the accused did not have diplomatic immunity had foiled the move. The government sought three-week time to present its view in the court.


They said the prime minister’s statement that any decision by the court “or the heirs of the deceased” would be acceptable to the government indicated that efforts were being made to placate the victims’ families.

The source said Ms Wahab had not been invited to the meeting because she had violated discipline and issued a statement on the Davis issue on Tuesday against the party line.


“She was not invited because the matter was to be discussed at the meeting,” they said.
 
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Waht is the criteria upon which people in US are selected to be appointed as a Diplomat or a counseler in a forighn country. Certinly in the US even there must have been a law which establishes a merit upon which people are assighned to forighn counteries, the bigger question is does davis fit up on that merit of being a diplomat or a consulate worker of the level who can enjoy compleet and blanket immunity...!
 
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the US is a hydro-carbon thirsty dracula hwo intimidate and invades smaller weaker and defensless countrys.in this case pakistan is being intimidated for immediate release of RD.even if he does not enjoy DI.
 
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Break relations and pull all your people from Pakistan, please.

Anyway its seemingly getting clearer that we'll have to do it for you.

Ok Asim, I will agree with your reasoning and the remedy above, if you agree to describing, in a fair and realistic manner, what you see happening if it does indeed come to pass, so that we can discuss it further.

Let's start with law and order, political continuity, and economic situations for Pakistan, both short and long term, and then see where we go for other areas, specifically the regional situation in Afghanistan and India, again short and long term.

I look forward to a great discussion.
 
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Again, this goes back to the main underlying issue, of the duplicity of Pakistan's rulers towards the people they are supposed to be representing, and their deliberate flouting of the law, as well as their deliberate aid and acquiescence to other nations flouting the law in Pakistan.


do you think that this is perhaps not a motivation for the pakistanin politicians to resist capitulation in the raymond davis case - that it would expose their duplicity?


after all, a leopard does not change its spots over night
 
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Let's start with law and order, political continuity, and economic situations for Pakistan, both short and long term, and then see where we go for other areas, specifically the regional situation in Afghanistan and India, again short and long term.

I look forward to a great discussion.

Sorry I know its not intended for me but I cant help but notice, why is it that u feel we cant handle India, Afghanistan without US? Afterall we have been dealing with them long before US invaded Afghanistan. Plus no Pak means no war for US in Afghanistan, my opinion suggests it will be easier to control situation viz-a-viz Ind/Afghn in the absense of US. we dont have to put up withsafe havens Indians enjoy under the US umbrella atm.

Why is you feel that if we break relation with US, we'll just be lost in the world? What good has come out of this relationship with US? a few billion dollars which never trickle down to poor people? I do get ur point that we should be rational about our international relations, but at what cost? I dont want to break relations , that said, I dont want us to be used and abused anymore. Cuz the fact is we have done more than enough for this relationship, and its doing more harm then any good. Thanks.
 
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Sorry I know its not intended for me but I cant help but notice, why is it that u feel we cant handle India, Afghanistan without US? afterall we have been dealing with them long before US invaded Afghanistan. Why is you feel that if we break relation with US, we'll just be lost in the world? What good has come out of this relationship with US? a few billion dollars which never trickle down to poor people? I do get ur point that we should be rational about our international relations, but at what cost? I dont want to break relations , that said, I dont want us to be used and abused anymore. Cuz the fact is we have done more than enough for this relationship, and its doing more harm then any good. Thanks.

the answer to your questions are because he has the wrong flags by his name, they should be two americans flags, hopefully he will change it.


in one sense there is a point about having good relations with the US, and ofcourse one cannot dismiss the USA lightly.

but enough is enough, us interference and interest in our nation has sent pakistan into oblivion.

compare their trade, military and political exchanges with india to what we get and it is clear that the USA regard india as the pre eminent force in s.asia.


therefore we are losing nothing much, this is just scaremongering, he is essentially threatening you and forcing you to servitude, that without the USA pakistan are nothing, so be nice to your masters!
 
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^^ thanks realist. Apart from few lines regarding Vcheng, i agree with u completly. I mean yaar, enough is enough. Lets not have this friendship if we cant even utter a word when we are treated like terrorists. Everything US says is right, whatever we say is wrong, jingoism, hurt ego of proud people! Fine, we are not a great country at the mo. If we continue in this path of prepetual slavery, we shall never be one.

Wrt Vcheng, am sure he is as much patriotic abt Pak as we are. But what astonishes me is the constant nonsense such as, oh we will be doomed etc. I mean cmon man US doesnt make the world go round anymore, or does it? How can he keep his cool amid all the tension is truely amazing, I have to admit this. But not when the potential losses outweigh the benefits of this phoney friendship.
 
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Sorry I know its not intended for me but I cant help but notice, why is it that u feel we cant handle India, Afghanistan without US? Afterall we have been dealing with them long before US invaded Afghanistan. Plus no Pak means no war for US in Afghanistan, my opinion suggests it will be easier to control situation viz-a-viz Ind/Afghn in the absense of US. we dont have to put up withsafe havens Indians enjoy under the US umbrella atm.

Why is you feel that if we break relation with US, we'll just be lost in the world? What good has come out of this relationship with US? a few billion dollars which never trickle down to poor people? I do get ur point that we should be rational about our international relations, but at what cost? I dont want to break relations , that said, I dont want us to be used and abused anymore. Cuz the fact is we have done more than enough for this relationship, and its doing more harm then any good. Thanks.

Thank you for your participation in the discussion too, but I would like to wait for Asim to post before I say my thoughts on this.
 
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Thank you for your participation in the discussion too, but I would like to wait for Asim to post before I say my thoughts on this.

Fair enuff mate. Though my discussipn is aimed at u alone, but ill wait. Ta.
 
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^^ thanks realist. Apart from few lines regarding Vcheng, i agree with u completly. I mean yaar, enough is enough. Lets not have this friendship if we cant even utter a word when we are treated like terrorists. Everything US says is right, whatever we say is wrong, jingoism, hurt ego of proud people! Fine, we are not a great country at the mo. If we continue in this path of prepetual slavery, we shall never be one.

Wrt Vcheng, am sure he is as much patriotic abt Pak as we are. But what astonishes me is the constant nonsense such as, oh we will be doomed etc. I mean cmon man US doesnt make the world go round anymore, or does it? How can he keep his cool amid all the tension is truely amazing, I have to admit this. But not when the potential losses outweigh the benefits of this phoney friendship.


look, vcheng says the thread is not about him, but throws his weight around as if it is.

secondly his posts are 90% favouring the US position, and he has stockholm syndrome with regards to the US, whilst we all respect the leverage the us has, and its obvious power his mindset of subservience to the us is unconscionable, or at least i would think it is to any self respecting individual, let alone someone claiming to be a pakistani patriot.

i hope you see the substance of my point, and not the airy fairy words which are some are inclined to err towards.
 
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I find it very easy to ignore personal attacks. :D

I am secure in my love for both Pakistan and USA, plain and simple! :D

Further, I do take positions with a fairly good though not perfect understanding of all aspects of an issue. I am not blinded by my own prejudices ever for I have worked hard to have none.
 
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I find it very easy to ignore personal attacks. :D

I am secure in my love for both Pakistan and USA, plain and simple! :D

Further, I do take positions with a fairly good though not perfect understanding of all aspects of an issue. I am not blinded by my own prejudices ever for I have worked hard to have none.

yoda, i have made no personal attacks.

plus i have no prejudices, saying i do is a personal attack in itself, almost all pakistani's implicitly understand that any anger is directed towards the govt and never the american people.

you have made points and when i comprehensively dismiss your points you ignore it and carry on with the same line of thinking, this automatically raises suspicions.

finally, if you do see the bigger picture then share it with people, i am 100% willing to listen to factual and thoughtful analysis that is contrary to mine, instead of talking in riddles and being a headmistress.
 
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