Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[Solomon2]

The USA should voluntarily waive any claim to diplomatic immunity for Mr. Davis. The US State Department should now content itself with providing Mr. Davis the best legal representatio-

I disagree. I'm tired of the U.S. always being expected to take a bullet just to be nice and save Pakistani officials from the embarrassment of making difficult choices or revealing their own incompetence. I don't think we Americans have this relationship with any other country and it can't be good for Pakistan that its officials keep using Americans as a scape-goat and crutch. The sooner it stops the healthier Pakistanis will be.

 

[Areesh]

This case has reached the point that, IMHO, both sides should now let Pakistani justice take it's course. Mr. Davis should never have killed those two men. He was totally wrong in his behavior on many, many levels. And diplomatic immunity should not be used as a cloak to protect scoundrels. The USA should voluntarily waive any claim to diplomatic immunity for Mr. Davis. The US State Department should now content itself with providing Mr. Davis the best legal representation that can be had and let Pakistan's Courts sort out the matter. As far as trading him for Aafia, that could realistically only come after Davis is convicted and sentenced. So, the best way out of this now is for Pakistan to bend over backwards to give Mr. Davis a speedy and transparently fair trial and let the chips fall where they may. Mr. Davis deserves all the anguish he is in. He brought it on himself.

At last a sane post. Thanks TruthSeeker.

 

[Omar1984]

Please go back few pages and you will see the videos ASIM AQUIL have posted and when they confiscated his camera he was photographing Military installtions and the Wagha Border. He looks like a CIA Agent causing trouble in Pakistan.

He is a spy for sure. Lahore police also found in his cell phone of him making calls to terrorist organizations in Waziristan on Pak-Afghan border when he was in the most eastern city of Pakistan near the Pakistan-India border. Pakistan should not let him go, this man knows too much.

 

[Awesome]

The FO can't legally do that since it isn't the usual part of their process. Take a look at Articles 13, 39, and 41: link

Break relations and pull all your people from Pakistan, please.

Anyway its seemingly getting clearer that we'll have to do it for you.

But even from a legal stand point, why do you ignore Article 37??? Which specifies a different rule for members of the "Administrative and Technical Staff" - a term not given by me, but the US embassy.

Members of the administrative and technical staff of the mission, together with members of
their families forming part of their respective households, shall, if they are not nationals of or12
permanently resident in the receiving State, enjoy the privileges and immunities specified in articles 29
to 35, except that the immunity from civil and administrative jurisdiction of the receiving State specified
in paragraph 1 of article 31 shall not extend to acts performed outside the course of their duties.

Now its not like this has not been posted before, and ignored before. I imagine 99% of you screaming "LA LA LA LA LA" whenever such things are pointed out.

According to the Vienna conventions administrative and Technical staff is not immune from judicial proceedings of the receiving state, Aritcle 37 (2)

So what're you talking about man? What else you got?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Probe Finds Connection Between Davis, Drone Attacks​

KARACHI: Investigation teams were astonished to learn about Raymond Davis’s alleged connections in North Waziristan, sources told DawnNews.

Sources have revealed that a GPS chip recovered from Davis was being used in identifying targets for drone attacks in the tribal region.

It was also learnt during the probe that Davis made upto 12 visits to the tribal areas without informing Pakistani officials.

The 36- year-old US official was reluctant in giving out information about his visits to the tribal region, sources added.

The US Embassy officials were exerting pressure on the authorities, asking them not to expose the information received from Davis.

Meanwhile, the Punjab government has shared the investigation and the possessions recovered from Davis with the federal government, said sources.

Probe finds connection between Davis, drone attacks | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

 

[Awesome]

I disagree. I'm tired of the U.S. always being expected to take a bullet just to be nice and save Pakistani officials from the embarrassment of making difficult choices or revealing their own incompetence. I don't think we Americans have this relationship with any other country and it can't be good for Pakistan that its officials keep using Americans as a scape-goat and crutch. The sooner it stops the healthier Pakistanis will be.

The high judiciary in Pakistan has earned a name for its by the book practices.

Btw, the US has demanded other nations waive off immunity when crimes are committed on its soil. So its not like Americans haven't gone scape-goating with crutches on, for you to be so comfortable on that high horse.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I disagree. I'm tired of the U.S. always being expected to take a bullet just to be nice and save Pakistani officials from the embarrassment of making difficult choices or revealing their own incompetence. I don't think we Americans have this relationship with any other country and it can't be good for Pakistan that its officials keep using Americans as a scape-goat and crutch. The sooner it stops the healthier Pakistanis will be.

And I agree with you there, though I appreciate TS's sentiments on the issue.

Again, this goes back to the main underlying issue, of the duplicity of Pakistan's rulers towards the people they are supposed to be representing, and their deliberate flouting of the law, as well as their deliberate aid and acquiescence to other nations flouting the law in Pakistan.

 

[Solomon2]

Members of the administrative and technical staff of the mission, together with members of
their families forming part of their respective households, shall, if they are not nationals of or12
permanently resident in the receiving State, enjoy the privileges and immunities specified in articles 29
to 35, except that the immunity from civil and administrative jurisdiction of the receiving State specified

Read carefully, Asim: that's only civil and adminstrative jurisdiction. Admin & tech staff retain immunity from criminal jurisdiction.

 

[Awesome]

John kerry said the bottom line is he holds diplomatic status.

The idea is to repeat the mantra so many times that it starts to appear as the truth.

The Pakistani FO manual 2010 edition recognizes Administrative and Technical staff as non-diplomatic

The Vienna conventions state that Administrative and Technical Staff does not enjoy full immunity - that is it states in words

"except that the immunity from civil and administrative jurisdiction of the receiving State" in Article 37 (2).

The USG, not Pakistan, declared Raymond Davis as Administrative and Technical Staff.

So in conclusion, the lie that anyone who works for the US consulate is immune from judicial proceedings does not hold and it does not translate into having "diplomatic status". It is total rubbish.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I disagree. I'm tired of the U.S. always being expected to take a bullet just to be nice and save Pakistani officials from the embarrassment of making difficult choices or revealing their own incompetence. I don't think we Americans have this relationship with any other country and it can't be good for Pakistan that its officials keep using Americans as a scape-goat and crutch. The sooner it stops the healthier Pakistanis will be.

Well, Solomon, I disagree with you! So there! We do have this relationship with lot's of other countries, especially ones where we want the "rulers" to do things for us that their "people" do not approve. And, then, there is my favorite counter example for you, the USS Liberty, where we let the Israelis kill and maim hundreds of US sailors without asserting our "diplomatic" right of freedom on the high seas.

 

[Awesome]

Read carefully, Asim: that's only civil and adminstrative jurisdiction. Admin & tech staff retain immunity from criminal jurisdiction.

The case of a USG staffer carrying weapons does fall under the purview of Administrative law.

 

[Solomon2]

Well, Solomon, I disagree with you! So there! We do have this relationship with lot's of other countries -

List, please, with supporting examples.

- then there is my favorite counter example for you, the USS Liberty, where we let the Israelis kill and maim hundreds of US sailors without asserting our "diplomatic" rights of our freedom on the high seas.

You are mistaken but that discussion would be way OT, so I'll just refer you to Michael Oren's book, Six Days of War for his discussion on the Liberty incident.

 

[American Eagle]

There are no 47 witnesses. There is only mob hysteria here.

 

[Andross]

SCENARIOS-Shooting case tests US-Pakistan relations | Reuters


SCENARIOS-Shooting case tests US-Pakistan relations


* "The stakes are huge" -- former CIA analyst

* Will government be seen as caving in to US pressure?

* Potential for US settlement with families of slain men

 

[Awesome]

There are no 47 witnesses. There is only mob hysteria here.

American Eagle has great your word is, it does not negate the fact that these 47 testimonies have been written down, signed and submitted as a charge-sheet to the Lahore High Court.

What have you done?