Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[VCheng]

I think that ALL should respect a sub judice case and moderate their comments.

 

[Shameel]

To American Eagle:

This is what happens when you fire through a windshield with a pistol from inside the vehicle:

YouTube - Windshield Shoot 4: Glock 27

The windshield does not shatter. The holes and the "spider cracks" in the above test are similar to those of Raymond's windshield.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

Ok so what is going on with the driver that ran over the man on the motor cycle??? Who and where is he? Why has he not been handed over?
What jurisdiction does the consulate have to deny his apprehension considering he is pakistani and non-diplomat?
How does the Chacha jee intend to protect him?

 

[fida jan]

where is s90 btw and his genius analysis

 

[Shameel]

Ok so what is going on with the driver that ran over the man on the motor cycle??? Who and where is he? Why has he not been handed over?
What jurisdiction does the consulate have to deny his apprehension considering he is pakistani and non-diplomat?
How does the Chacha jee intend to protect him?

They are probably not handing him over because he, too, is an American. These SUVs with blacked out windows and non-diplomatic number plates are usually driven by American Blackwater types. I've seen them because their front windows are not blacked out. They will never put a Pakistani in them because only they are trained in vehicle ambush countermeasures. My bet is that the second vehicle, which killed Obaid-ur-Rehman, was also driven by an American, not a Pakistani.

 

[Developereo]

Is there any proof that these two guys were robbers? Were they involved in crime previously?

I am not talking about a statement from the US embassy, but actual police confirmation.

It still does not prove Mr. Davis' claims that his life was under threat, but would clearly lend him a favorable slant.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

I think this is not going to end well.
The driver of the other vehicles must be interviewed if he a diplomat and if not, must be investigated.
The refusal to allow such a think will only hurt US interest.
That being said, justice must be done based on facts
regardless of who they favor.

 

[Shameel]

find his diplomatic passport and rest the case..

Even THAT won't rest the case. Here's why:

Your diplomatic status must be recognized by the host country. This is done in two ways:

(i) Host country issues diplomatic visa; and
(ii) Host country issues a diplomatic ID card.

A Pakistani diplomat in Mexico will not be a diplomat in the U.S.A. just beceause he's carrying a diplomatic passport and applies for a visitor visa so his children can visit Disneyland in LA. Likewise, an American diplomat in India will not be a diplomat in Pakistan if he visits Pakistan on a visitor visa.

In Raymond Allen Davis's case, he may have a diplomatic passport but, according to Pakistan's foreign office, he was not issued with a diplomatic visa or diplomatic ID. In fact, the US Embassy in Pakistan expressly asked the Pakistani Foreign Office for a non-diplomatic ID card for him.

 

[American Eagle]

Nope, second driver is a Pakistani national as reported in the media inside Pakistan.

Regarding a windshield bullet hole photo not from the attack on Mr. Davis, that is not the pattern of the photo of shots fired INTO his windshield. You are correct that shots fired into a safety glass windshield do not shatter it. Because front windshield are have duty safety glass.

But when the bullets pass out through the rear window that glass does explode and shatter into small shards. Not safety class of the type the front windshield is made of.

See this Thread Postings # 241 and 242 for windshield damages from several bullets fired INTO Mr. Davis windshield.

A single driver in traffic cannot fire from vehicle. He is too busy just driving the vehicle.

Training films put up on this Thread are of vehicles with miltiple occupants so that driver drives and shooter shoots leaning out of the window. That is all.

There are also pictures of two and three men in a single car getting out of the car and firing from behind the trunk forward around the car. That is all.

 

[niaz]

Before all of us get carried away in blind hate of the Americans. Let me recount what happened in UK in front of my eyes 27 years back.

There was a peaceful demonstration in front of the Libyan Embassy by Libyan Nation Front opposed to Col Qaddafi. UK Police were on duty to keep the peace. Shots were fired from inside the Libyan Embassy and a police woman called Yvonne Fletcher died as a result. This happened in the St James Square, London. My office was at 3, St James Square; we came out when we heard the shots and I saw PC Yvonne Fletcher lying dead. Despite the furore in the British media, the said diplomat was allowed to go free as diplomatic immunity was claimed. This was the time when Libya was considered an international pariah. Only thing that happened was that Libyan Embassy was closed and reopened 3 years later at a different location.

On a personal note; knowing the Law& Order condition in Pakistan, if I was in his place and found a motorbike rider following me, I would do the same. For Heaven’s Sake! Even the Pak Army generals are being gunned down and leaders such as BB assassinated. Americans are the choicest targets of the TTP and Al-Qaida. If I think I am being followed, you expect me sit quietly and be shot! You might but I wouldn’t.

Rather this than have a US diplomat shot. Best thing to do is to ask for compensation. As long as we are part of the International community, we have to follow diplomatic protocol. Suppose if a Pakistani diplomat is being followed by a Shiv Sena thug in Delhi, would you condemn him as much as you are doing in this case. Remember diplomats are immune from prosecution in host country and this also applies to Pakistani diplomats in the US as well as in India.

 

[American Eagle]

In Raymond Allen Davis's case, he may have a diplomatic passport but, according to Pakistan's foreign office, he was not issued with a diplomatic visa or diplomatic ID. In fact, the US Embassy in Pakistan expressly asked the Pakistani Foreign Office for a non-diplomatic ID card for him.

Untrue.

The US Ambassador says Mr. Davis has a Paksitani issued Visa which expires in late 2012 together with his US Diplomatic Passport.

Why do people keep ignoring the facts and keep making up all this malarky? It is meaningless and does not create any credibility for folks who brag on being Pakistani but then speak in an untruthful and biased manner despite the facts of record thus far.

Shame. Mr. Davis bravely defended himself and rightly so from crooks, robbers, with a public history of crime even earlier that same day.

Here is the latest story from the Karachi DAWN which anyone can verify by going to:

www.dawn.com

ISLAMABAD: In a clear about-turn on the status of the American charged with murder of two motorcyclists in Lahore, the United States on Saturday claimed that the accused was a diplomat and demanded his immediate release.

“The diplomat, assigned to the US Embassy in Islamabad, has a US diplomatic passport and Pakistani visa valid until June 2012,” a terse statement by the embassy said.

It went on to accuse Islamabad of being in violation of the Vienna Convention on diplomatic relations. The Foreign Office reacted sharply to the embassy statement, counselling respect for the legal course.

The exchange was a pointer to an evolving diplomatic crisis between Islamabad and Washington.

The latest American statement was indubitably different from the one released by the embassy on Friday describing the accused Raymond Davis as “a staff member of the US Consulate General in Lahore”, which though ambiguous, but was clearly short of declaring him as a diplomat.

More importantly, the Friday statement had come at a time when media was discussing the status of the accused and was taken by many as a corroboration of the claims that Davis wasn’t a diplomat and hence had no diplomatic immunity.

The latest (Saturday) media release came a day after hectic diplomatic activity apparently failed to yield any result.

The Foreign Office looks to have also hardened its stance on the matter. Spokesman Abdul Basit called for respecting the legal process.

“This matter is sub judice and the legal process should be respected,” he emphasised in a message evidently directed at the Americans.

Mr Davis is being described by the American media as a security contractor from a Florida-based firm, Hyperion Protective Consultants, LLC.

That Foreign Office and the US embassy were not on the same page on the issue of status of the accused was obvious from an FO press release that mentioned Davis as a US ‘functionary’, and not a diplomat.

The latest U-turn in American position clearly fits in with the business principles of Hyperion Protective Consultants.

Their website says that the personnel provided to the customer (US State Department in this case) are hired as the customer’s employees. As such the “legal liabilities reside with the business contracting the service”.

The US embassy statement set aside all diplomatese and not only accused the host government of ‘unlawfully detaining’ its ‘diplomat’, but criticised the remand of the accused given by a judicial magistrate.

“Furthermore, the diplomat was formally arrested and remanded into custody, which is a violation of international norms and the Vienna Convention, to which Pakistan is a signatory,” the embassy statement noted.

 

[Developereo]

The US Ambassador says Mr. Davis has a Paksitani issued Visa which expires in late 2012 together with his US Diplomatic Passport.

Was it a diplomatic visa, or just a normal tourist/business visa?

Why do people keep ignoring the facts and keep making up all this malarky?

You tell us.

 

[VelocuR]

How about closed this thread til court decision??

 

[fida jan]

On a personal note; knowing the Law& Order condition in Pakistan, if I was in his place and found a motorbike rider following me, I would do the same. For Heaven’s Sake! Even the Pak Army generals are being gunned down and leaders such as BB assassinated. Americans are the choicest targets of the TTP and Al-Qaida. If I think I am being followed, you expect me sit quietly and be shot! You might but I wouldn’t.

please dont try to compare a common american to a fully trained american soldier, who owns a security company and has been working for CIA, the guy is professional.., no common tourist keeps illegal weapons and too shooting the men multiple times and head shot cause death in a self defence... before this guy has murder case on him and been travelling pakistan multiple time, he planted false evidence and took photos just what the professionals do to change the crime scene

pakistan is not his country, so why he travelled nine times in 2 years when he knew that its not safe and esp hanging around in 'dangerous plac'??

 

[American Eagle]

Was it a diplomatic visa, or just a normal tourist/business visa?



You tell us.

A Pakistani Diplomatic Visa is onMr. Davis's US Diplomatic Passport which expires in 2012. That was already covered by the statement from the US Ambassador.

Davis's diplomatic passport accredits him at the US Embassy in Islamabad to the Government of Pakistan, which GOP issued VISA to Mr. Davis on his Diplomatic Passport expires during 2012.

Tourist and business visas only go on routine Passports, not on Diplomatic Passports. We are again beyond reason and sense in trying to find or create a non-existant conspiracy against a US diplomat who merely defended himself from gun wielding Paksitani crooks whose thievery earlier the same day was perpetrated on a Paksitani man who they robbed of money and other items.

For those in Lahore you can go look up the Lahore Police Report on the deceased crooks vs. the report of theft by them on him filed by the offended Pakistani man who was robbed.